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Shaving dogs
There is a young lady at the dog park with a Husky. She's about to shave
the poor dog down because her dad doesn't want to deal with the dog hair, and now that it's no longer cold, he says the dog doesn't need it (in fact that the dog would be more comfortable without hair). I think we've discussed before how the whole coat is part of the thermoregulatory mechanism of dogs, and shaving can impact their ability to control their body temperature, adversely. She may be able to convince her dad if she can show something along the lines of a study (or half a dozen) that demonstrate this. I checked the archives, but couldn't find anything, and generic Google searches aren't yielding it either. If anyone has the information handy, could you please let me know? Suja |
Shaving dogs
"Suja" wrote in message ... There is a young lady at the dog park with a Husky. She's about to shave the poor dog down because her dad doesn't want to deal with the dog hair, and now that it's no longer cold, he says the dog doesn't need it (in fact that the dog would be more comfortable without hair). I think we've discussed before how the whole coat is part of the thermoregulatory mechanism of dogs, and shaving can impact their ability to control their body temperature, adversely. She may be able to convince her dad if she can show something along the lines of a study (or half a dozen) that demonstrate this. I checked the archives, but couldn't find anything, and generic Google searches aren't yielding it either. If anyone has the information handy, could you please let me know? I want to say that there is a great deal of contraversy about this subject - from my research I don't think there is a definitive answer to it. The samoyed people are very certain that shaving a dog is detrimental to their ability to remain cool - and because their hair is pink and protects their pink skin I can certainly see where sunburn could be a very serious problem in Samoyeds. However, SOME keeshond people, and my Keeshond owning vet ( and two other vets I asked incidentally) believe that we have "overcoated" many of our dogs and that shortening the coat can help keep them cooler in summer months. All agree that you have to leave some hair - you can't just shave the dog - you have to trim the dog shorter. I've seen some really cute pictures of retired show keeshonds running around in lion cuts. Their owners claimed they were happier in the heat without the hair. so this past summer, i cut Toks hair. I'm not convinced he was any more comfortable. its not grown back properly. I think a good weekly raking out of the undercoat is just as effective on keeping him cool. And its also very good to keep the hair off the floor. |
Shaving dogs
In article ,
Beth In Alaska wrote: so this past summer, i cut Toks hair. I'm not convinced he was any more comfortable. its not grown back properly. I think a good weekly raking out of the undercoat is just as effective on keeping him cool. And its also very good to keep the hair off the floor. The question about whether or not there's actual research is a good one, and I'm curious about the answer, too. Personally, I'd never clip one of my dogs' coats, but that's personal bias. Anything I've heard about this has been anecdotal or taken the form of oral recommendations from vets or veterinary researchers, which is not what Suja's looking for. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community |
Shaving dogs
Suja wrote:
There is a young lady at the dog park with a Husky. She's about to shave the poor dog down because her dad doesn't want to deal with the dog hair, and now that it's no longer cold, he says the dog doesn't need it (in fact that the dog would be more comfortable without hair). I think we've discussed before how the whole coat is part of the thermoregulatory mechanism of dogs, and shaving can impact their ability to control their body temperature, adversely. She may be able to convince her dad if she can show something along the lines of a study (or half a dozen) that demonstrate this. I checked the archives, but couldn't find anything, and generic Google searches aren't yielding it either. If anyone has the information handy, could you please let me know? I can't answer the question about actual research on thermoregulatory mechanisms, but couldn't a trim be offered as a compromise? The idea of shaving makes me wince. A good summer haircut could be sporty and comfortable (and less to vaccuum). --Lia |
Shaving dogs
Beth In Alaska wrote:
I want to say that there is a great deal of contraversy about this subject - from my research I don't think there is a definitive answer to it. The samoyed people are very certain that shaving a dog is detrimental to their ability to remain cool - and because their hair is pink and protects their pink skin I can certainly see where sunburn could be a very serious problem in Samoyeds. However, SOME keeshond people, and my Keeshond owning vet ( and two other vets I asked incidentally) believe that we have "overcoated" many of our dogs I think this is absolutely correct. Compared to the rough collie of 75 years ago, the current rough collie has a massive amount of hair and they retain too much of it to be comfortable in the summer. I've never bought the idea of the hair being necessary to protect the dog from heat. Dogs have an internal temp of 102 and, for the vast majority of the time, the environment has a lesser temp. In warm environmental temps (60 & above) the dog (depending on his breed & coat) is trying to remove heat from his body. Insulation is good for keeping heat in but (duh) lousy for letting heat out. If a slick haired dog, say a Viszla, has been running hard and is hot, throwing an insulated coat on him will not make him cooler. I've known a couple Pseudo-Smoothies - rough collies sporting crew cuts because their owner wanted to show obedience in the summer. When she tried to work them when they had their long full coats, they would often overheated. With their crew-cuts, her collies were much more active and she was able to cool them off more effectively. She said they always grew a normal coat afterwards but maybe that's because they were trimmed long (2-3 inches all over). I know that sometimes hair doesn't grow back right if it's shaved. That happened after Pablo's surgery last summer. The vet shaved a 6" x 6" spot on his rump and, as near as I could tell, the undercoat came back ok but about half the guard hairs grew back. I know that this certainly doesn't happen all the time. My WAG is nearly half the rough collies coming into rescue have such badly matted coats that they have to be shaved. And from what I've heard, the majority of them grow a lovely new coat. and that shortening the coat can help keep them cooler in summer months. All agree that you have to leave some hair - you can't just shave the dog - you have to trim the dog shorter. I've seen some really cute pictures of retired show keeshonds running around in lion cuts. The pseudo-smoothies were, IMHO, really cute. Since their undercoat & guard hairs were the same length, their hair was poofy which made them look like puppies. Now back to the husky mentioned by Suja. If I understand the reason for cutting the husky's hair, it isn't to help him stay cooler but to reduce shedding. Now it's true that shaving the dog to the skin will completely stop the shedding but the dog will look really stupid and will be susceptible to sunburn, insect bites, and other irritants. Trimming the coat down will, IMHO, not do diddly squat to help with the shedding. While the dog might feel a little cooler, I don't believe it will affect the shedding rate. The dog will still have the same number of hairs and will still shed them. Chris & her smoothette, Lucy |
Shaving dogs
ChrisJ wrote:
Beth In Alaska wrote: I want to say that there is a great deal of contraversy about this subject - from my research I don't think there is a definitive answer to it. The samoyed people are very certain that shaving a dog is detrimental to their ability to remain cool - and because their hair is pink and protects their pink skin I can certainly see where sunburn could be a very serious problem in Samoyeds. However, SOME keeshond people, and my Keeshond owning vet ( and two other vets I asked incidentally) believe that we have "overcoated" many of our dogs I think this is absolutely correct. Compared to the rough collie of 75 years ago, the current rough collie has a massive amount of hair and they retain too much of it to be comfortable in the summer. I've never bought the idea of the hair being necessary to protect the dog from heat. Dogs have an internal temp of 102 and, for the vast majority of the time, the environment has a lesser temp. In warm environmental temps (60 & above) the dog (depending on his breed & coat) is trying to remove heat from his body. Insulation is good for keeping heat in but (duh) lousy for letting heat out. If a slick haired dog, say a Viszla, has been running hard and is hot, throwing an insulated coat on him will not make him cooler. I've known a couple Pseudo-Smoothies - rough collies sporting crew cuts because their owner wanted to show obedience in the summer. When she tried to work them when they had their long full coats, they would often overheated. With their crew-cuts, her collies were much more active and she was able to cool them off more effectively. She said they always grew a normal coat afterwards but maybe that's because they were trimmed long (2-3 inches all over). I know that sometimes hair doesn't grow back right if it's shaved. That happened after Pablo's surgery last summer. The vet shaved a 6" x 6" spot on his rump and, as near as I could tell, the undercoat came back ok but about half the guard hairs grew back. I know that this certainly doesn't happen all the time. My WAG is nearly half the rough collies coming into rescue have such badly matted coats that they have to be shaved. And from what I've heard, the majority of them grow a lovely new coat. and that shortening the coat can help keep them cooler in summer months. All agree that you have to leave some hair - you can't just shave the dog - you have to trim the dog shorter. I've seen some really cute pictures of retired show keeshonds running around in lion cuts. The pseudo-smoothies were, IMHO, really cute. Since their undercoat & guard hairs were the same length, their hair was poofy which made them look like puppies. Now back to the husky mentioned by Suja. If I understand the reason for cutting the husky's hair, it isn't to help him stay cooler but to reduce shedding. Now it's true that shaving the dog to the skin will completely stop the shedding but the dog will look really stupid and will be susceptible to sunburn, insect bites, and other irritants. Trimming the coat down will, IMHO, not do diddly squat to help with the shedding. While the dog might feel a little cooler, I don't believe it will affect the shedding rate. The dog will still have the same number of hairs and will still shed them. When we brought Harley (Bernese Mountain Dog) home from the stable and the whole bot eggs drama unfolded I clipped his extremely dense and woolly black coat down to maybe 1/2", acting on the advice of my vet. He definitely seemed more comfortable, but he'd also been bathed (twice), gone over with a coat king to pull out some of the undercoat, was spending most of his time inside in the A/C, there were no horse flies attacking his ears and in the yard there was a 55 gallon stock tank in the shade where an overheated dog might cool himself down. So who knows? My neighbors have their solid black chow/husky cross clipped down every spring. She gets this sort of lion cut. Her head, neck and shoulder/chest are trimmed but left longer and everything else is buzzed close. Except for her tail. That fur is off limit to groomers these days. The very first time they'd taken her to a groomer and asked for a lion cut, the guy shaved her tail, except for a tuft at the tip. It was awful. These days her owner is careful to specify that the tail is to be left alone. I suspect that she is more comfortable, as much because her shorter coat dries faster after a dip in the pool, as because of short fur being cooler. |
Shaving dogs
Julia Altshuler said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior: I can't answer the question about actual research on thermoregulatory mechanisms, but couldn't a trim be offered as a compromise? A full or partial shave would probably only delay the inevitable. The dog will shed just as much no matter the coat length. In fact, the owner's father will probably find the shorter shed hair way more annoying than the natural. Plus, the stress of the shaving may bring on some initial heavy shedding. -- --Matt. Rocky's a Dog. |
Shaving dogs
I've never bought the idea of the hair being necessary to protect the dog
from heat. Dogs have an internal temp of 102 and, for the vast majority of the time, the environment has a lesser temp. In warm environmental temps (60 & above) the dog (depending on his breed & coat) is trying to remove heat from his body. Insulation is good for keeping heat in but (duh) lousy for letting heat out. If a slick haired dog, say a Viszla, has been running hard and is hot, throwing an insulated coat on him will not make him cooler. **Warning: The following is based solely on intuition, but may include points worth considering.** I think you're missing the possibility of the hair acting as a radiator. Sticking up hair increases the surface area over which heat can be disapated in to the cooler environment. (this is comming from my physics background rather than my biology back ground now). Guys who vary between having and not having a beard can think of how cold the 'coated' part of your face gets when you shave in the winter. Its not that its being exposed to more cool air, rather its loosing more heat because the stubble is pointing straight out from the skin. There is of course the competing, insulating effect of the hair, which is mostly dependent on its ability to trap air pockets. The balance between this is going to have an impact on the dog's thermoregulatory ability (i.e. adjusting how he 'holds' his hair to either hold in the air or allow the hairs to act as little radiators). I think a big determinant will be the skin underneath. Is the dog going to be prone to a sun burn if you shave him? What's his skin like? If there is little to no pigment in the skin, I think you're just asking for trouble. In this case the skin isn't designed for direct exposure to the sun, and will likely burn much more readily. Dale |
Shaving dogs
In article a5UGj.773$9X3.109@edtnps82,
Dale Atkin wrote: I think you're missing the possibility of the hair acting as a radiator. Sticking up hair increases the surface area over which heat can be disapated in to the cooler environment. (this is comming from my physics background rather than my biology back ground now). We can infer that dog hair is not particularly heat- conductive or it wouldn't be very effective insulation against the cold. It's hollow, or at least husky hair is hollow. -- Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community |
Shaving dogs
"Melinda Shore" wrote in message ... In article a5UGj.773$9X3.109@edtnps82, Dale Atkin wrote: I think you're missing the possibility of the hair acting as a radiator. Sticking up hair increases the surface area over which heat can be disapated in to the cooler environment. (this is comming from my physics background rather than my biology back ground now). We can infer that dog hair is not particularly heat- conductive or it wouldn't be very effective insulation against the cold. It's hollow, or at least husky hair is hollow. Not sure I follow this. The radiative abilities are a function of surface area. (I admit heat conductive ability are a part of the equation, but hardly the major part). This is why the radiator on your car has all the little fins on it, its to give it a large surface area to volume ratio. Insulative ability is a function of the ability to trap air, which is a very good insulator. Dale |
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