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Dog yelping in pain but can't identify why?



 
 
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  #82  
Old July 6th 09, 02:10 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Tara Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Dog yelping in pain but can't identify why?

wrote:


I guess you still have no idea what the meaning of the words
genetically extremely assertive means, and you show no hope of ever
learning what they mean, either.


You keep throwing that phrase around as
though it means something.

Dogs that are extremely assertive are pretty
much ALL that way genetically. There is not a
lot of other forms of assertiveness other
than that which is innate in *that*
dog....and that is generally thought of as
being genetic. So....what's you point?

Tossing that phrase around to make yourself
sound more "in the know" than you clearly are
is silly.

But, you know best....
Well, I think the ESS Field Trial Association, and two board certified
animal behaviorists probably do. But that's for others to decide.

Oh, I'm sure they do too.


Then heed_their_advice. My ankles will thank you for it.


So now whenever I happen to bother reading
one of your posts (which hasn't happened in
weeks) and find something valid to disagree
with, you'll dismiss it as ankle biting?

How convenient for you.

But don't think that just because you've
confused you posting quotes of theirs with
actually _invoking_ their spirits that the
rest of us make that same error.


I think many of you are not capable of admitting when you're wrong,


I have yet to see you do that as well. So
once again I see that you fit right in with
that which you choose to look down upon.

and many of your dogs, and maybe even your children and loved ones,
have had to pay the price for that, and may again in the future.


How pompous and ridiculous. Especially coming
from someone with completely hypothetical
dogs and no willingness to put her ass on the
line even once regarding your *actual*
experiences.

  #83  
Old July 6th 09, 02:17 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Tara Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Dog yelping in pain but can't identify why?

wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:32:02 -0400, Tara Green
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:25:15 -0400, Tara Green
wrote:

wrote:
On the other hand, he can
live a meaningful and contented life in the hands of someone who
acknowledges the dog for what he is (and who always takes measures to
carefully manage the dog's environment), and not for what the owner
would like to think he is. I'm not sure you're that owner, Diddy.

Googling Diddy's history with dogs and with
dog training might have been helpful prior to
writing this.
I'm well aware of Diddy's history. And her lack of history dealing
with ESSs and genetically extremely assertive dogs.

Her vast experience handing dogs is far more
extensively documented than that of a certain
anonymous poster handing out advice to euthanize.
You are right to question my credentials, since I've offered none. But
wrong to question the credentials of the ESS Field Trial Association,
and the opinions of two behaviorists (with whom the majority of board
certified animal behaviorists surely agree).

They are not the ones trying to assess this
individual dog and whether or not it should
be euthed. YOU are. So no, you're credentials
are what would be questioned under these
circumstances.


But I'm not trying to assess this dog.



That is *exactly* what you are trying to do.

I'm saying that_if_the dog is
genetically extremely assertive, it should_probably_be put down,


Not really. You are saying this dog probably
*is* that way. Big difference.

especially if Diddy isn't going to acknowledge that he might be, and
take the necessary precautions.


Leave to Diddy that which is Diddy's. And
while you're at it, why not give us a
reason....ANY reason why your assessments
should mean anything at all.

Which, by the way, is incredibly
irresponsible when you're basing it on
exactly one description of a behavior as
posted on usenet.
It's a cautionary tale.

No. Its an assessment and diagnosis based on
one online post.


Then you have extreme;y poor reading comprehension, which I think
you've demonstrated in the past, too.


Or your lack of admitting when you've just
made a sweeping statement, which you have
also done in the past.

One that I think is well worth mentioning,
especially if small children are in the picture, which Diddy
acknowledged there are.

So, that's the second time, in as many
newsgroups, that you have dished out
definitive and all encompassing advice that
was based on....well, not a whole lot of info.
I've done no such thing. I've offered good advice, supported by
recognized experts in the field of animal behaviorism and ESSs.

Flat our suggestions of low jumps and
euthanasia is doing *exactly* that sort of thing.


I gave the suggestion of low jumps as an example of what might be
considered, not necessarily what was possible.


No. You said "she should....". That was flat
out advice. When I get back, I'd be happy to
look up the exact wording for you since you
seem to have no recollection of what you
wrote (even though its already been quoted
back to you once before)

And euthansia as a
possibility, and what the vast majority of animal behaviorists and ESS
experts would reccommend. As with Diddy, you can take that advice or
leave it. But it won't prevent me from offering advice again, when I
feel that I should. Even to regulars who should know better.


And others will feel just as free to call you
on bad advice. And you, of course, are free
to continue to whine about being called on
it. The world goes on...

All of
my advice to Diddy has been based on the possibility that her dog is
genetically extremely assertive, an opinion with which the dog's own
breeder now seems to agree. It would border on criminal negligence had
I not mentioned it, in fact. What advice have you offered her?

I don't feel the need. I'm betting she's on
top of it.


That's one of the problems of groups like these. The regulars can
become quite chummy, and neglect to offer sound advice to someone
because it might offend them in some way.


You keep trying to convince people that
you've been reading this newsgroup for a long
time, and then you come out with this sort of
idiocy.

Diddy and I have never.....NEVER....given the
smallest crap about offending each other. For
you to suggest that this is why I don't feel
the need to suggest she kill her puppy is
really humorous. And wrong....but that's
pretty much a given concerning your
assertions about who does what here at this
point.

Well, I couldn't care less
about offending someone, especially if it's sound advice. I care most
about the dog, and about the chances of the dog doing real harm to
children, other dogs, etc.


And your ego. But that's another given.

If it crops up again, I'm betting
she'll put that dog down faster than you
could pull out your "I told you so" handbook,
so I'm not overly worried about her.


I'm not overly worried about anything. But I think what I said, what I
warned against, needed to be said. And apparently two of us here agree
with that advice.

And your advice to diddy was to kill the dog
based on one post.


At no time did I tell Diddy to kill her dog. Her breeder did, but I
didn't. I did say that he_probably_should be put down if it was
determined that he was a genetically extremely assertive ESS, as would
any ESS expert, board certified animal behaviorist, etc. Because even
experts couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't rear it's ugly ahead
again. Which is very good advice, take it or leave it.


Again, why don't you give a detailed
explanation for how you would distinguish a
"genetically extremely assertive dog" from
your average run of the mill extremely
assertive dog.

I wait with baited breath for this one.
  #85  
Old July 7th 09, 05:06 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Robin Nuttall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Dog yelping in pain but can't identify why?

wrote:


http://www.essfta.org/health_research/aggression.htm

When Springers were first imported to the U.S., they looked much like
the Springers in the U.K (which, of course, makes sense). Then a
specific breeder, Julia Gasow of Salilyn Kennels, decided that she
wanted to make their look more uniform. She did not care for either
ticking or the irish spotting found in Springers at the time, and
instead bred to set the recessive Boston markings, which is a solid
sadddle of color along with a solid head with (usually) a white stripe
between the eyes. No ticking.

Salilyn was, and still is, the best known kennel name in American
show-lines Springers. Gasow succeeded so well that today the coat color
pattern of American Springers is extremely Uniform.

http://www.essfta.org/images/Connor.jpg

Unfortunately, this emphasis on a specific coat color type came at a
cost. And one of those costs is temperament abnormalities, most
frequently aggression issues. Part of it is genetic, part of it is that
they really do switch on and off, and part of it is mishandling by
breeders and owners, mistaking that soft beautiful expression and coat
for the dog it's supposed to be (sweet, merry, outgoing) rather than the
dog it too often is (edgy, easily aroused, hair-trigger, unstable).

In all the years I spent with my first mentor, doing the circuit,
helping her with dogs, showing, I was never once able to look one of her
Springers in the eye for any long period of time. They would go red-eyed
and hot. It was a trigger.

The British-style Springer Spaniel is quite different in coat to the
American style:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En...aniel_show.jpg

It has also retained much of the proper sweet, happy Springer
temperament. However, even though this coat is specifically allowed in
the Standard, many American breeders and judges despise it and will not
put such a dog up at a show or breed to one. Thus, the breed has a real
problem.


 




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