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Please help I want my dog to play nice!!



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 22nd 12, 04:44 PM
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by DogBanter: Apr 2012
Location: Perth W.A
Posts: 2
Wink Please help I want my dog to play nice!!

Hello Im new here but what a great site!!

I need help desperately. My 5 yr old rescue dog Benny is not coping when my best friend and her dog Zelda (boxer cross) comes to visit.

Benny is a kelpie / blue heeler cross and very sweet but not well socialised. We have had him for 3 years and he came from an abusive background.

Anyway when Zelda comes over he acts quite afraid of her darting past her and not letting her get too close. Although he will slyly sniff her butt!

After her initial arrival things can settle and Ben tolerates her but is very wary.

When we go out into the back garden after a while (20 minutes or so) Ben will bark incessantly at Zelda he dances around as if he wants to play and his tail is wagging but if she starts to play chase with him he will try and nip her and still wont let her get close. The barking seems aggressive but the tail is wagging? Im confused.

Zelda has no aggression in her and no sign of dominating Ben she largely ignores him but runs around the garden when he is yapping.

The thing is I have NO control I cannot get him to stop barking or get him to come to me. I have tried time out and putting him in the house where he can see us thru the window and once he is calm I let him out again.

This works but only for a time then we are back to barking.

In the house Ben is jealous and barks if Zelda is shown affection (which is kinda hard not to as she is very smoochy and friendly!)

Zeldas 'mum' is my best friend and we dearly want Ben to at least tolerate Zelda because she is often here at my house.

We have never taken Ben to Zeldas house and wonder if change of territory would be better?

We took them to the park for their first meeting a few months ago and they were ok until they grabbed the same stick and Ben growled and tried to nip and Zelda just threw herself on her back onto the ground!

Im really not sure what to do here any help would be so much appreciated Thanks
  #2  
Old April 22nd 12, 09:20 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Please help I want my dog to play nice!!

On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:44:18 +0000, mumofSofieandBen
wrote:

Hello Im new here but what a great site!!

I need help desperately. My 5 yr old rescue dog Benny is not coping when
my best friend and her dog Zelda (boxer cross) comes to visit.

Benny is a kelpie / blue heeler cross and very sweet but not well
socialised. We have had him for 3 years and he came from an abusive
background.


How do you know that he came from an abusive background?

Anyway when Zelda comes over he acts quite afraid of her darting past
her and not letting her get too close. Although he will slyly sniff her
butt!

After her initial arrival things can settle and Ben tolerates her but is
very wary.

When we go out into the back garden after a while (20 minutes or so) Ben
will bark incessantly at Zelda he dances around as if he wants to play
and his tail is wagging but if she starts to play chase with him he will
try and nip her and still wont let her get close. The barking seems
aggressive but the tail is wagging? Im confused.


Do you know what kelpies and blue heelers were bred to do?

To herd other animals.

And that sounds like what he's doing, trying to HERD Zelda.

The thing is I have NO control I cannot get him to stop barking or get
him to come to me. I have tried time out and putting him in the house
where he can see us thru the window and once he is calm I let him out
again.


Have you ever thought of formal OBEDIENCE TRAINING?

[...]
Im really not sure what to do here any help would be so much appreciated
Thanks


Join an OBEDIENCE class or arrange for private OBEDIENCE TRAINING
sessions.

If your dog was poorly socialized as a puppy, he may never really be
comfortable around other dogs, or even with strange humans. He may
eventually get much better with Zelda, if he's around her often
enough, or he may not. But I wouldn't press the issue.

But you can do something about his OBEDIENCE TRAINING, if you're
willing to put in the time and effort. Yes, you can learn how to train
him to bark, and to stop barking. On command. And especially to COME
WHEN CALLED ("recall"), which is the most important command your dog
will ever learn, because it can save his life one day.

Good luck!

And thanks for rescuing him!

--
Dogman
  #3  
Old April 23rd 12, 04:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Please help I want my dog to play nice!!

On Sunday, April 22, 2012 4:20:40 PM UTC-4, Dogman wrote:
On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:44:18 +0000, mumofSofieandBen
When we go out into the back garden after a while (20 minutes or so) Ben
will bark incessantly at Zelda he dances around as if he wants to play
and his tail is wagging but if she starts to play chase with him he will
try and nip her and still wont let her get close. The barking seems
aggressive but the tail is wagging? Im confused.


Do you know what kelpies and blue heelers were bred to do?

To herd other animals.

And that sounds like what he's doing, trying to HERD Zelda.


I've lived with a cattledog (heeler) from working lines, and that is pretty much straight herding behavior. Here's the thing: for a herding dog, that IS play. The best reward you can give a herding dog from working lines (as opposed to a conformation/pet dog where the urge to work isn't prized above all else) is the chance to herd something.

They love observing carefully, to read what the other animals are doing, and if there is no direction from the handler on what needs to be done, formulate and implement a plan of action. Type of animal doesn't really matter. Cows, sheep, horses, geese, chickens, other dogs, humans...anything that's willing to run when the herding dog says "run". Especially if there's more than one or they are resisting his direction, making it more of an irresistable challenge. Ours never got to play with the nephews, but chasing the chickens behind their fence from one end of their pen to the other was mostly harmless, especially after the chickens started ignoring him.

There are two ways to deal with herding behavior. One, channel it. Let him know what is acceptable and what isn't through a pattern of training and classes. You may have to get one-on-one time if he's not very manageable in a group setting (because he keeps blowing you off to herd the other dogs).. Stuff like herding people is bad, herding other dogs is ok until I tell you stop. Stuff like that is all trainable.

The other, even more important way is to GIVE HIM A JOB. Make sure he has an activity that challenges his need to run, to think, and do what you need him to do. For our dog, this was Fetch. As in, you better have two balls ready to go, because if you only had one he was going to hold onto it until he caught his breath and THEN give it to you and good luck getting anything else done for the rest of the day. If you have two, throw the second when he tries to catch his breath. After about fifteen minutes of this, you'll actually have him calm enough you can do something else for a couple of hours. Plan on doing this two or three times a day, at least. A "chuck-it" or tennis racket is a useful accessory for dealing with gritty drool-covered balls. Also, get real pet toy rubber balls to play with, tennis balls wear down their teeth. Ask me how I know.

Inside the house, we'd often end up throwing a ball across the room while watching TV. If I was in the office, I could get the ball to go down the hall and then the stairs...he thought it was great fun. Tug toys are also a good way to use up some herding dog energy, if you're up to it.

Also, lots of walks is always a great way to channel energy, and get them out to see the sights and smell the scents. Training helps here too so they know how to behave on a leash.

If you want a more active role (!), you could make him a trick dog. "Skidboot" the trick dog was also a heeler, but he was also a full time job for his owner, keeping him occupied coming up with new tricks all the time. If you have the time, it can be rewarding. Another possibility is agility or flyball. But basically, he needs SOME kind of active outlet for his mind and energy. That's what I mean by a job.

The thing is I have NO control I cannot get him to stop barking or get
him to come to me. I have tried time out and putting him in the house
where he can see us thru the window and once he is calm I let him out
again.


Have you ever thought of formal OBEDIENCE TRAINING?


Ditto, but don't hold out a lot of hope on curing the barking. For a high-drive herding dog, barking can be nearly impossible to break. But I will tell you, if you can keep him tired and mentally happy, it will be easier.

Hope that helps.
--Glenn Lyford
  #4  
Old April 23rd 12, 04:49 PM
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by DogBanter: Apr 2012
Location: Perth W.A
Posts: 2
Smile

[quote='Dogman[_3_];385391']On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:44:18 +0000, mumofSofieandBen
wrote:

Hello Im new here but what a great site!!

I need help desperately. My 5 yr old rescue dog Benny is not coping when
my best friend and her dog Zelda (boxer cross) comes to visit.

Benny is a kelpie / blue heeler cross and very sweet but not well
socialised. We have had him for 3 years and he came from an abusive
background.


How do you know that he came from an abusive background?

Anyway when Zelda comes over he acts quite afraid of her darting past
her and not letting her get too close. Although he will slyly sniff her
butt!

After her initial arrival things can settle and Ben tolerates her but is
very wary.

When we go out into the back garden after a while (20 minutes or so) Ben
will bark incessantly at Zelda he dances around as if he wants to play
and his tail is wagging but if she starts to play chase with him he will
try and nip her and still wont let her get close. The barking seems
aggressive but the tail is wagging? Im confused.


Do you know what kelpies and blue heelers were bred to do?

To herd other animals.

And that sounds like what he's doing, trying to HERD Zelda.

The thing is I have NO control I cannot get him to stop barking or get
him to come to me. I have tried time out and putting him in the house
where he can see us thru the window and once he is calm I let him out
again.


Have you ever thought of formal OBEDIENCE TRAINING?

[...]
Im really not sure what to do here any help would be so much appreciated
Thanks


Join an OBEDIENCE class or arrange for private OBEDIENCE TRAINING
sessions.

If your dog was poorly socialized as a puppy, he may never really be
comfortable around other dogs, or even with strange humans. He may
eventually get much better with Zelda, if he's around her often
enough, or he may not. But I wouldn't press the issue.

But you can do something about his OBEDIENCE TRAINING, if you're
willing to put in the time and effort. Yes, you can learn how to train
him to bark, and to stop barking. On command. And especially to COME
WHEN CALLED ("recall"), which is the most important command your dog
will ever learn, because it can save his life one day.

Good luck!

And thanks for rescuing him!

--
Dogman[How do you know that he came from an abusive background?/QUOTE]

Hi DOGMAN Benny was thrown out from a house where the woman had a new baby and a black eye and was changing states to escape her violent husband.Therefore Ben was chased away and found his way to the main road where he was picked up.

Thank you so very much for your advice. I really appreciate it but have to add that Benny rescued me as I have a chronic back condition and get a bit low at times but he is such a great source of company and support to me.

I am going to see if I can find obedience help which can visit me at home as it is physically impossible for me to hold a lead so I cant join a group.

Yes I am determined to put in any effort required to make Bennys life and mine better - its great for me to focus and work at improving things.

Thank you Dogman you really are a wealth of knowledge and Im grateful you took the time to respond
cheers Janette
  #5  
Old April 23rd 12, 09:37 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Please help I want my dog to play nice!!

On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:49:57 +0000, mumofSofieandBen
wrote:

[...]
Join an OBEDIENCE class or arrange for private OBEDIENCE TRAINING
sessions.

If your dog was poorly socialized as a puppy, he may never really be
comfortable around other dogs, or even with strange humans. He may
eventually get much better with Zelda, if he's around her often
enough, or he may not. But I wouldn't press the issue.

But you can do something about his OBEDIENCE TRAINING, if you're
willing to put in the time and effort. Yes, you can learn how to train
him to bark, and to stop barking. On command. And especially to COME
WHEN CALLED ("recall"), which is the most important command your dog
will ever learn, because it can save his life one day.

Good luck!

And thanks for rescuing him!

--
Dogman[How do you know that he came from an abusive background?/QUOTE]

Hi DOGMAN Benny was thrown out from a house where the woman had a new
baby and a black eye and was changing states to escape her violent
husband.Therefore Ben was chased away and found his way to the main road
where he was picked up.


Well, I'm glad that lady got away from her physically abusive husband,
but that doesn't really prove that the dog had an "abusive
background."

Thank you so very much for your advice. I really appreciate it but have
to add that Benny rescued me as I have a chronic back condition and get
a bit low at times but he is such a great source of company and support
to me.


Yeah, dogs have a knack for doing that, don't they?

I am going to see if I can find obedience help which can visit me at
home as it is physically impossible for me to hold a lead so I cant join
a group.


That's too bad. But there are work-a-rounds. And getting a dog trainer
to train the basics for you, then show you how to use your voice,
maybe a whistle and hand signals, to get your dog to do whatever you
need him to do. Especially to COME WHEN CALLED.

Yes I am determined to put in any effort required to make Bennys life
and mine better - its great for me to focus and work at improving
things.


That's great news!

Thank you Dogman you really are a wealth of knowledge and Im grateful
you took the time to respond
cheers Janette


You're welcome. And Glenn made a good point, too, that giving him a
JOB to do (e.g., frisbee, ball retrieving, etc.) will work wonders.
OBEDIENCE TRAINING itself is perceived as a job by most dogs, so you
get a two-fer. He learns new things, and gets to feel good about
himself. That makes for a very happy, very contented dog.

Good luck!

--
Dogman
  #6  
Old April 24th 12, 04:35 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 479
Default Please help I want my dog to play nice!!

And an obedience trainer who is plugged into the real dog world in your
area will probably know if there is anyone nearby who teaches herding,
and will work with pet owners who "merely" want to give their herding
dogs a good and natural-for-the-dog periodic work-out with herding. I
would not expect a chain pet store "trainer" to be a source of this
information, but one who competes in obedience or agility, and has some
students who do, is much more likely to know. This isn't available
everywhere, but the opportunuties are increasing rapidly.

Friends with herding dogs tell me that one or two sessions a month with
sheep, under control of their instructor, really helps to even things
out behaviorally.... as part of an overall program.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

  #7  
Old April 24th 12, 01:21 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Please help I want my dog to play nice!!

On Monday, April 23, 2012 11:41:33 AM UTC-4, Glenn Lyford wrote:
On Sunday, April 22, 2012 4:20:40 PM UTC-4, Dogman wrote:
On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:44:18 +0000, mumofSofieandBen
When we go out into the back garden after a while (20 minutes or so) Ben
will bark incessantly at Zelda he dances around as if he wants to play
and his tail is wagging but if she starts to play chase with him he will
try and nip her and still wont let her get close. The barking seems
aggressive but the tail is wagging? Im confused.


Do you know what kelpies and blue heelers were bred to do?

To herd other animals.

And that sounds like what he's doing, trying to HERD Zelda.


I've lived with a cattledog (heeler) from working lines, and that is pretty much straight herding behavior.


Oh, and I here's another tidbit: As long as both dogs are not getting stressed, whining, growling with bare teeth and snapping (as opposed to just nipping and excited barking), or ears way back, or trying to hide from the other dog (behind you, under bushes, etc.) ... if it's just barking, nipping, rolling, and chasing with no yips, whimpers, or growls, this is JUST PLAY. And it's one of the best ways to tire out your dog--assign the task to another dog! Especially one that is not there all the time, like your friend's, so that the visits can be controlled to just the yard or whatever, and not constantly through the house at all hours. Is your friend concerned? If they're OK with it, let 'em at it and see what happens. You could have them both with a leash clipped to them, so you have a way to break things up if it looks like they are getting out of hand (you could stand on one leash while your friend pulls on the other) or you could have someone like a visiting trainer watch them interact and see if they think it's OK. My thought is your dog is just trying to get the other dog to play, and it's the oldest dog game, "chase me and I'll chase you."

My lab, our new herding puppy, and a friend's mixed breed all love play this way. You'd swear something horrible was going on, between the chasing, the barking, the tugging, the ear pulling, the nipping at each others faces, and the rolling around, but they enjoy it immensely. Especially if one or another has a toy to taunt the others with (ball, rope tug, bone, frisbee....as long as it's something the other dog wants). There's a name some people use for this type of play, they call it "bitey-face." If you search for that on youtube, you can see some other dogs in this heavy-duty sort of play. Watch and listen to the dogs. Does this sound like the kind of play your dog wants to do?

If you were looking for a dog to just sit quietly on the couch with you, and snuggle in and get petted, you pretty much have the wrong breed. Heelers will do that, but not as often as you'd like. Ours would do it when he wasn't fully awake yet in the morning, and when he was tired enough to fall asleep at night. Most of the rest of time, he preferred to be active. He kept this up for a decade. After that, he still preferred to be active, he just couldn't always get his joints to cooperate. Cute as all get out, but not a cuddler.

Our new herding puppy this time around is an Australian Shepherd. And you know what? At 4 months, as cute and fluffy as he is...he's not much of a cuddler--he'd rather be active.

Later,
--Glenn Lyford
 




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