Rut Ro

montana wildhack wrote:
Thank you so much to everyone who was here today. It really helped me to
calm down.

http://tinyurl.com/ympsa2

This should take you to the end of the album, where there are perfectly
awful photos!


Okay, coming in on this thread late. I don't know if this is a repeat of
stuff, but here goes.

First, try to rig up some sort of "pig rail," which is a place that the
puppies can get under around the edges of the crate where mom can't lie
down on them (i.e, if she lies with her back to a side or corner, she
won't squish a puppy).

Second. Puppies need to be warm. Very, very warm. They can't regulate
temps at this age and have no sub-q fat. (about 85-90 degrees first
week, drop by 5 degrees each week). Rig up a heat lamp OR securely tape
a heating pad set on LOW in one part of the crate/box. Be sure they have
a place to get away from the heat, and be sure if you use a heating pad
that it's a waterproof one. I used one and then layered paper and cheap
indoor/outdoor carpet squares over it, then disposable blankets over
that. Get the carpet squares at a carpet store outlet--we have something
here called Hoods that carrys them. The carpet squares can be thrown out
when dirty or removed and rinsed well then replaced, and they give good
puppy traction for moving around and eventually standing.

Third. Beg, borrow, or steal a baby scale. This first week or so try to
weigh babies several times a day if at all possible. Puppies should gain
steadily.

Fourth. Happy puppies are quiet puppies. If you're getting a lot of
noise all the time, there's a problem. They're cold or hungry or both.

IF you have a puppy that is failing to thrive, or Mom doesn't have
enough milk you may need to supplement. To do that without driving
yourself insane, you'll need to learn to tube feed. IF you need to do
this, find a local kennel club, call them, and have someone hook you
into a local breeder who is a tube feeder and ask them to teach you.
Hopefully this will be a non-issue, but if it happens tube feeding isn't
that hard, and it's much, much faster than trying to get them to nurse
off a bottle.

Now, the good news. Take a deep breath. It sounds like so far Mom is
being super, especially for a first-time mama. Be sure she is getting
lots and lots of quality food. Mix some cottage cheese and/or whole milk
yogurt with her food and dramatically increase her portion--you said she
was thin except her stomach. She needs lots more food. She may not eat
much this first 24 hours. tempt her. Maybe some ground beef mixed with
puppy formula. With any luck, she'll take great care of them the first
3-4 weeks.

I'm going to get you a super recipe for puppy formula. Much, much
cheaper than bought mixes and it's been used for generations by a lot of
breeders I know and has raised lots of puppies.

I'm not sure of your private email but feel free to email me privately
at if you like.

We expect we'll get better ones! ;-D I was gone all day, started to
read the DH decisions and wham - puppies! Congratulations on what is
sure to be an adventure. Sometimes life throws us some interesting
curve balls.

I hope to come up with better pictures, too.

I had to go buy puppy food for the new mom and ran into a woman who is on
a board I'm on. She fosters puppies for the APL and said that she would
see if they can help us place the puppies if we need help (which we will).


are you keeping one? If it were me, it might be too hard to resist!

good luck with all of the pups, hopefully you'll get a few good nights of
sleep in the next couple of weeks.

montana wildhack wrote:
This should take you to the end of the album, where there are perfectly
awful photos!

Neo has such a pretty expression to her! Gotta love pointy ears. Is
she a keeper? Sure looks like one to me!

Debbie

montana wildhack wrote:
On 2006-12-04 20:33:18 -0500, Robin Nuttall said:

Okay, coming in on this thread late. I don't know if this is a repeat
of stuff, but here goes.

First, try to rig up some sort of "pig rail," which is a place that
the puppies can get under around the edges of the crate where mom
can't lie down on them (i.e, if she lies with her back to a side or
corner, she won't squish a puppy).


Any suggestions? We've already had some accidental sitting on puppies.

Well not so good when using a crate, but if you're handy with wood check
out this page:

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/whelping.html
http://www.flatcoat.com/building.htm



We have two friends who bred dogs and they are going to give us a baby
shower of items we may use or borrow. I'll ask about a scale. We are
concerned that all the puppies get a chance to thrive. They're doing
fine, but I'm sure Neo can use some vitamins, etc.

Don't over supplement her, mostly she'll need some cottage cheese, eggs,
puppy formula, and lots of good food. You might switch her to puppy
food. I fed Viva Euk Premium Performance throughout and it worked fine.



I have a resource who may be able to help. I can't tell you how many
phone calls we made today.

I'm sure you have, and I'm also sure you'll be fine.

Holy cow! I'm glad I opened this thread!! Very exciting, and very
strange to see it all play out in 5 minutes of reading.

So one thing I know very well is lactation. I barely read some of the
posts because I wanted to address this right away. I advise you NOT to
supplement the pups. Lactation is all about supply and demand, and as
long as the pups are nursing, Neo will produce enough milk. The more
they nurse, the more she will produce. When they have growth spurts
and they need more milk than she is producing, they will suckle more
voraciously as well as more frequently until her supply increases.
Then they will be more satisfied with each nursing. The key is that
all the pups need their nipple time, so if you color code them and
weigh them and notice one is failing to grow, you can try to shuffle
the pups and get the little one to the nipple. If you supplement with
formula, mama's milk production will definitely not be adequate as the
pup who is getting supplemented will not suckle as much and Neo's
supply will not increase to meet the demand.

I didn't notice the time stamps on the posts (damn google groups annoys
me), but Neo won't have milk right away and that is normal. It could
take up to 3 days, but that colostrum ("pre milk") is very important
for the pups and rich with antibodies. Their suckling these first days
will stimulate milk production, so try not to interfere and they will
be fine. Neo needs excellent nutrition and hydration of course.

Think about it this way, too: if you start bottle feeding, you're
stuck, and it's not optimal for the pups. Try to let Neo do what she
is built to do. She sounds like a great mama!

I hope this all makes sense. I'm road weary and stupid tired.

Now I'm off to look at the photos and I hope to see more very soon!!

On Dec 4, 10:50 pm, "Lynne" wrote:

Now I'm off to look at the photos and I hope to see more very soon!!

OMG how precious! I envy you all that puppy breath!!

Don't you DARE try to tempt me with one of those puppies... (where do
you live?

On Dec 4, 3:09 pm, diddy wrote:

Soak bloodstain out of carpet with cold water to which salt has been added,
blotting off excess water until stain is removed. Ensure back of carpet is
dry, then shampoo. Treat large stains on furnishings by sponging with
biological detergent dissolved in water. Small stains can be treated with a
paste of salt and cornflour, or salt and starch, left to dry, then brushed
off.

I gave birth to my second child at home (accidentally) and we never
could get the blood stains out of the carpet... We tried all of the
above, no luck. The carpet was nearly white, though.

On Dec 4, 3:13 pm, Shelly wrote:

bottle of Woolite Oxy Deep for carpets. That stuff is *magic*.

Shoot. I wish I had known that before we ripped up our carpet in order
to sell that house.

On 4 Dec 2006 19:53:57 -0800, "Lynne"
wrote:

On Dec 4, 10:50 pm, "Lynne" wrote:

Now I'm off to look at the photos and I hope to see more very soon!!

OMG how precious! I envy you all that puppy breath!!

Don't you DARE try to tempt me with one of those puppies... (where do
you live?

One down, five to go, Montana. Post enough pictures and you may not
need any help from rescue agencies to place them.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 23:59:16 -0500, montana wildhack
wrote:

On 2006-12-04 22:50:47 -0500, "Lynne" said:

Try to let Neo do what she
is built to do. She sounds like a great mama!

I hope this all makes sense.

It makes great sense. I understand the theory behind lactation in
humans, but I appreciate the explanation regarding the pups.

Several members of my extended family have not been able to produce
enough milk even with lactation consultants advice and help to fully
feed first children, but then have gone on to do fine with subsequent
children. My dad, who grew up on a farm, commented on the frustrated
women's conversation at a family gathering with, "That makes sense
seeing as how many cows we had that didn't produce much milk on their
first calf." In the end, it was of some comfort to those who had
"failed" at breastfeeding, I suppose, to hear that nature doesn't
always make it possible so it isn't really a failure, but at the time,
the comparison to the nonhuman world didn't go over very well.

As far as the pups go, I agree that you should give her every chance
to take care of it on her own, but if it just isn't happening, keep
your mind open to the fact that it doesn't always work out the way it
is supposed to in theory. As my doctor told me, the body is still
going to get the message that it needs to make more if you let the
baby nurse until there is no more and then a little longer. After the
body gets the signal, go ahead and give the baby a bottle if she isn't
getting enough and know you have done your best. Tomorrow is another
day. I would think it would be the same for dogs. Or cows, for that
matter.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay