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HELP: Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 12th 07, 03:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
diddy
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Posts: 1,077
Default Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?

in thread 4.196: Tara
whittled the following words:

"Drachen" wrote in
:


so, I'm not blatently saying, toss a vest on the dog and walk into
whatever building you want...



Actually, if you read your post, that's *exactly* what you were
saying.


That's the way it read. Yes it did. And I rarely agree with Tara, but I
have to agree with her this time. Drachen your advice appalls me on so
many levels I cringe even reading your posts.
  #12  
Old January 12th 07, 03:52 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Drachen
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Posts: 74
Default Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?

I try not to be this way... I'm assuming that people aren't all that stupid
when reading posts...

but I have personal experience with working dogs in public... and I'm also
assuming that someone *particularily the main poster* may inquire more into
the post that I did make...

rather than let this get into a weird long post of non puppy issues, focus
and add more to the discussion at hand...

thanks

"diddy" wrote in message
...
in thread 4.196: Tara
whittled the following words:

"Drachen" wrote in
:


so, I'm not blatently saying, toss a vest on the dog and walk into
whatever building you want...



Actually, if you read your post, that's *exactly* what you were
saying.


That's the way it read. Yes it did. And I rarely agree with Tara, but I
have to agree with her this time. Drachen your advice appalls me on so
many levels I cringe even reading your posts.



  #13  
Old January 12th 07, 03:58 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Tara
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Posts: 1,408
Default Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?

"Drachen" wrote in
:

I try not to be this way... I'm assuming that people aren't all that
stupid when reading posts...


Not having information is NOT the same thing as being "stupid"

The OP doesn't know, or she never would have asked.

What you answered was simply misleading.

I think it would be irresponsi9ble to allow misleading information to be
presented without pointing out that it is wrong.

but I have personal experience with working dogs in public... and I'm
also assuming that someone *particularily the main poster* may inquire
more into the post that I did make...


Again, when you present something as a complete thought, there is simply
no reason why someone would automatically inquire further.

rather than let this get into a weird long post of non puppy issues,
focus and add more to the discussion at hand...


a) This IS a puppy issue. Something that effects the access that dogs
have in our society is most definitely a "puppy issue"

b)I already did focus on the discussion at hand. By suggesting that the
OP not do this.

thanks


You're welcome.

Tara
  #14  
Old January 12th 07, 04:02 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
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Posts: 6,155
Default Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?

Drachen wrote:
I try not to be this way... I'm assuming that people aren't all that stupid
when reading posts...


I wouldn't be so blithe about assuming any such thing. There are
all sorts of stupid people reading--and writing!--on teh interwebs.

but I have personal experience with working dogs in public... and I'm also
assuming that someone *particularily the main poster* may inquire more into
the post that I did make...


Or someone--you really have no control over whom or when--might just
take your words at face value. Some people might assume that words
actually have meaning, instead of being pretty forms that someone
strung together for us to gawp at. Wacky, I know, but there you
have it.

rather than let this get into a weird long post of non puppy issues, focus
and add more to the discussion at hand...


Or, how about *you* focusing on formulating your posts so that they
don't have gaping huge holes in them? Since we appear to be in
unasked for advice dispensing mode...

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #15  
Old January 12th 07, 04:09 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Drachen
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Posts: 74
Default Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?

and again it depends on the location of the person...

even a dog in training can be restricted... I always called ahead or spoke
to the manager of the store/pharmacy/restaruant where I normally do my
shopping to take licorice there to train... I've never had a problem...
people here are great when it comes to dogs... *except one pharmacist and
one coffeeplace, the pharmacist has issues with dogs in general, and I don't
go to that one coffeehouse anymore... crappy service anyways*

catch the more updated post listed before jumping on the 'lets all hate the
poster' bandwagon, where I clarified a few things...

mainly training involved...

and clearly the dog was used for the persons therapy and assisted... as I
mentioned in a prior posting about a dog to assist a woman who has
agoraphobia... the animal is mainly trained to be her companion outside of
the home so she can actually go outside without panic attacks.... the dog
is more than well trained, and they went through hoops getting the dog
certified, but because it wasn't an accredited puppy school/special needs
training, which is rare around here, they managed extra training...

I kept strict records of my dogs training, health etc... which also includes
mind you, hip xrays and eye examination + certification... if either of
those aren't good, then you can't have the dog as a therapy dog at all...
regardless of training... that was out of my pocket, so was the insurance...




Where are you located... it might help if you were to get a vest for
her that say 'therapy dog in training, do not pet'...


Not only is this incredibly unethical, its one of the *main* reasons why
therapy dogs, and animal assisted therapy dogs have lost almost ALL of
the travel priveledges they used to enjoy. You see, when a LARGE number
of people lie like this, the system shuts down, and then those that
genuinely put the time and effort into training their dog can no longer
bring their dogs where they need to. I think that is completely
wrong....and its the fault of those that misrepresent their own dogs in
order to take advantage of the system put in place to help animal
assisted therapy.

When I was training my dog, no one questioned it... ever... even when
I just had her little blue seatbelt holder on her, or her backpack.


Yeah, well she was *actually* a service dog in training. That's a bit
different than making something up.

*needed her to get use to jingle sounds like meds and such, so I
filled her backpack with sound like objects...*

as well, st johns ambulance may have a program in which your dog may
be classified as a therapy dog, and in some places you can have a
therapy dog as a working dog, but papers have to be gotten from the
province/state, and in some cases they are very strict, although the
standards vary from place to place...


Unfortunately, many people who have any kind of anxiety related
condition (no matter how mild) have been able to convince a doctor to
label their dogs as therapy dogs....even if it takes them talking to 10
docs before they find one willing to abuse the system.



and this I completely DON"T agree with... there should be a specialist as
well as a reputable family doctor, aka a doctor that has seen the patient on
a regular basis in order to make a proper diagnosis... We had a pediatric
neurologist, *one of the top in the country* and our family doctor, as well
as a social worker all write letters to recommend a dog for our son... I'm
not one to leave anything to chance.... and I don't think anyone else should
either...


While I truly feel for the OP, unless she went out and got a dog who
would, as part of a training prgram or evaluation, qualify for service
dog, or even therapy dog sxtatus, then trying to get this label applied
simply hurts those who are doing this for real.

Tara


In some cases a dog that a person has owned may qualify to be trained as
such a working dog/therapy dog... I do know there is a dog course that will
train peoples pets for such things, but only if they qualify, which includes
the health, eyes xrays vet insurance, etc... *they may cover insurance, not
sure* and personality of the dog... not all dogs can be working dogs... heck
if it were possible I would have had a seizure alert cat... not just
response... my sons cat ... *my son belonged to the cat actually heh* would
alert us to his seizures before they happened and would refuse to leave him,
in fact would lay right on top of him until he stopped, then she would purr
and nuzzle him non stop...

btw, did you know they are also using minature horses for seeing eyes for
the blind?... kinda neat, simply because they are more herd/prey animals so
are more sensitive to the environment around them... they fit nicely
underneath a table... but I digress... I haven't slept all night and I'm
just willing to keep on typing here....


  #16  
Old January 12th 07, 04:09 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?

In article ,
Drachen wrote:
I try not to be this way... I'm assuming that people aren't all that stupid
when reading posts...


I tend to assume people aren't all that stupid when they
write, but sometimes there are stupid people posting stupid
things. The best way to avoid being mistaken for one is to
be more careful in your writing. This is not the first time
multiple people have assumed that you were suggesting
something stupid and you were insistent that you were not,
only to have it turn out you didn't bother to explain what
you really meant. What you do is basically the equivalent
of describing a display moon at your grocery store made of
cheese by saying "the moon is made of cheese," and then
letting everybody here puzzle out what you really meant by
"the moon is made of cheese" and ultimately becoming
offended when people point out that you posted "the moon is
made of cheese."

Spelling and grammatical errors are one thing, but huge
elisions in content are an entirely different one. Your
writing is exceedingly sloppy - *intellectually* sloppy -
and it doesn't have to be.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #17  
Old January 12th 07, 04:51 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
[email protected]
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Posts: 937
Default HELP: Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?


montana wildhack wrote:
On 2007-01-11 23:08:20 -0500, said:

Legally can this building owner interfere with my bringing my dog Holly
to my doctors visit.


If you are in the US, most likel, yes. But ou can expend a lot of
energy and emotion fighting this through the legal system. This may
eventually turn out in our favor and you will be mightily distracted
from your problems temporarily. No matter what you do, you'll still
have to live with yourself. One way will cost you a lot more time and
money than the other.
--
http://4dsgn.com


I disagree. It seems to me the problem here isn't with the building
proprietor, but with the doctors/therapists who are moving into the
building. If they feel they have patients who benefit from the
inclusion of their animals in their treatment, then they shouldn't be
moving to a building which does not currently permit non-service dogs.
Dogs that are not required to be permitted by the ADA are a risk to the
proprietor's asset, the building itself. I'm certain the terms of the
lease were covered before it was finalized, ie. the proprietor notified
the doctors of all the policies of the building in advance, including
the dog ban.

I don't mean to seem cold hearted, but I think the blame is being
misplaced in this instance.

Furthermore, I am against any misrepresentation of the dog as a therapy
dog, or making it a therapy dog to misrepresent it as a service dog
that is covered by the ADA. I know someone who does that to take their
certified therapy dog into stores when they are out shopping and I find
it highly immoral, and am certain it is illegal. A therapy dog does
not have the need to go into stores, if it did it would be a service
dog. It is unjust to incur the risk of potential damage to the
property of the building owner.

Again, I'm sorry for your situation, but you need to raise your
concerns with your therapist. If several of the doctors in the group
use dogs in treatment, they should have made their need clear and had
some sway in the decision of where to move.

Nick
Nick
Nick

  #20  
Old January 12th 07, 07:14 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sandy in OK
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Posts: 788
Default Can a nondoctor stop me from taking my dog to my therapist?


Drachen wrote:
I try not to be this way... I'm assuming that people aren't all that stupid
when reading posts...


It's honestly not a matter of people being "all that stupid". There
actually are people who think that passing a pet off as a service dog
is okay. People do it to gain access where dogs aren't allowed. And the
way the ADA laws are written, to keep people with legitimate service
dogs from being harrassed, it's pretty easy for posers to get away with
it. If Drachen's dog is a seizure alert, or seizure assist dog for her
son, that dog is a legitimate service dog FOR HER SON. Which doesn't
mean she should have extra access when the dog is just with her.
It's quite possible that if the original poster is being treated for
anxiety and the dog mitigates the condition, and her doctor agrees, her
dog could be a service dog, which would give her legal access to take
her dog into the building, and legal recourse if the owner of the
building gives her a hard time about it. If she's going to pursue it
legally though, she needs to be sure that she can prove her dog has a
service purpose.

 




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