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New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 19th 08, 10:24 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster

In article ,
Janet Boss wrote:
That's what bugs me too. I don't understand letting cats roam either
though.


I don't either. But I *really* don't understand failing to
learn from an awful experience. You know: "Geeze, that
sucked and I feel awful about it. I'll never let that
happen again." Nope, Paul privileges weird, distorted
nostalgia over keeping his pets safe.

Paul seems to think that he's being picked on by big meanies
pretty much at random, but it's crap like this that makes
him a magnet for criticism.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #22  
Old February 19th 08, 10:56 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
sionnach
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Posts: 825
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster


"Shelly" wrote in message
...
(the)duckster wrote:

How do you think you two would get along with a cat?


I believe that Muttley's history with cats is Not Good.


Um, well.... neither is Paul's, according to his posts.


I think it's desert people who do that with Afghans and rabbits.


I somehow don't think that coursing is quite the same thing as catching
mice.


Nor do I - and I have dogs who have actually caught both rabbits
and mice. The skill set is quite different.


  #23  
Old February 19th 08, 11:22 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
sionnach
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 825
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster


"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
On one particular night, I had been working very late, while Photon was
outside, and I was just about asleep, when I thought I heard some sounds
that might have been her wanting to come in. Sometimes I had found that
this was not the case, and it was a nice evening in October.


This is what your post at the time stated:


"In recent weeks, Photon seemed more and
more anxious to come inside... Last night, I thought I heard her crying to
come in, but it was late, I was
tired, and I did not want to deal with making sure Muttley was out of the
way and safe. The night was not too cold, and I was going to take care of
her in the morning."


I'm not sure what your definition of "not too cold" and "nice evening" is,
but the temperatures that week were in the 30s at night, and it was windy -
here's what Frank Roylance at the Sun had to say about the weather at the
time:

October 24, 2006
Snow in the mountains
It's a chill wind blowing out there today. We've been averaging 6 or 7 mph
here at The Sun in the past few hours, with gusts to 23 mph and temperatures
only in the upper 40s (that's 15 degrees below average for the date). But,
at least for Maryland, this wind has been free of the lake-effect snow that
points west and north have been reporting.

October 23, 2006
....nights in the 30s until Thursday - about 5 to 10 degrees below the
long-term average for this time of year.
Late Thursday into Friday the rain chances rebound. In the meantime,
counter-clockwise circulation around a deep low to our north will bring
stiff winds from the west. We could see gusts to 30 mph today.





  #24  
Old February 20th 08, 01:43 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Paul E. Schoen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,654
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster


"sionnach" wrote in message
...

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
On one particular night, I had been working very late, while Photon was
outside, and I was just about asleep, when I thought I heard some sounds
that might have been her wanting to come in. Sometimes I had found that
this was not the case, and it was a nice evening in October.


This is what your post at the time stated:


"In recent weeks, Photon seemed more and
more anxious to come inside... Last night, I thought I heard her crying
to come in, but it was late, I was
tired, and I did not want to deal with making sure Muttley was out of the
way and safe. The night was not too cold, and I was going to take care of
her in the morning."


I'm not sure what your definition of "not too cold" and "nice evening"
is, but the temperatures that week were in the 30s at night, and it was
windy - here's what Frank Roylance at the Sun had to say about the
weather at the time:

October 24, 2006
Snow in the mountains
It's a chill wind blowing out there today. We've been averaging 6 or 7
mph here at The Sun in the past few hours, with gusts to 23 mph and
temperatures only in the upper 40s (that's 15 degrees below average for
the date). But, at least for Maryland, this wind has been free of the
lake-effect snow that points west and north have been reporting.

October 23, 2006
...nights in the 30s until Thursday - about 5 to 10 degrees below the
long-term average for this time of year.
Late Thursday into Friday the rain chances rebound. In the meantime,
counter-clockwise circulation around a deep low to our north will bring
stiff winds from the west. We could see gusts to 30 mph today.


So, what about the night of the 22nd? That is when this happened. You have
really gone to a lot of trouble just to try to make me seem to be such a
monster. She often spent much colder nights outside, and it's not all that
warm and cozy in the crawlspace where she would have most likely gone.

Why don't we just drop this whole thing and move on?

Paul and Muttley


  #25  
Old February 20th 08, 01:59 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Janet Boss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,368
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster

In article ,
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

She often spent much colder nights outside, and it's not all that
warm and cozy in the crawlspace where she would have most likely gone.


Doesn't that sound lovely and caring!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
  #26  
Old February 20th 08, 03:07 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
\(the\)duckster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 326
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster


"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...

"(the)duckster" wrote in message
news:yRAuj.4354$0%3.2316@trnddc06...

"Janet Boss" wrote in message
...
In article NJAuj.4352$0%3.1857@trnddc06,
"\(the\)duckster" wrote:


How do you think you two would get along with a cat?

Paul's cat met it's demise because Paul wouldn't get out of bed to let
her in at night. Let's not suggest he get another.


Oh, bad idea. Thank you for bringing me up to speed.

Kind regards,

(the)duckster


Of course, Janet will make it sound like it's all my fault, just to try to
make me feel worse than I already do. Let me try to explain in more

detail.

My cat Photon was an indoor/outdoor cat who alternated between staying
outside or inside, and sometimes she would let me know by scratching at

the
door, meowing, or in other ways. When I got Muttley, he was cat

aggressive,
and I had to keep them separated. When she was inside, she would hide in
the crawl space under the floor, except for times when I had Muttley
tethered outside or contained in another part of the house. I was making
some progress in socializing them, and I was able to hold her while

Muttley
watched from the other side of a screen door.

On one particular night, I had been working very late, while Photon was
outside, and I was just about asleep, when I thought I heard some sounds
that might have been her wanting to come in. Sometimes I had found that
this was not the case, and it was a nice evening in October. She had food
and water outside, and if she came in I would have had to tie Muttley
outside, or else she would just run under the floor, while he would get
excited and stare at the hole where she went. Even so, if I had heard
continued or more urgent sounds, certainly I would have taken these
precautions and let her in. But I heard nothing more, and went to sleep. I
probably should not have even mentioned this insignificant detail, because
those who have an agenda to discredit me or make me into a monster can and
have used this as ammunition.

The next day when I went outside, I expected to see her crawl out of the
bushes or wherever it was that she usually spent the night. I called and
there was no response. But that was also not unusual. Sometimes she would
be gone for a day or longer, and meet me when I got home at night.
Sometimes I knew she was probably crossing the road because I would hear
cars slow down and honk their horns just before she would appear on the
porch. At night, sometimes I would see her in the road and call to her and
try to make her realize the danger. She had a sense of the danger and

would
quickly run to safety when she heard a car whizzing by. But I had a sense
of dread that morning. Later, as I started off to go to work, I saw her
lifeless body by the side of the road against a loose rock wall. So, I
brought her remains back to the house, let Muttley sniff her one last

time,
wrapped her in an old shirt, and buried her under a white pine tree up on
the hill where sometimes she would play.

Now, Janet et al, please leave this alone. All of us here have tragedies
that we have shared, and nobody wants to be reminded of any possibility
that their actions may have contributed to the injury or demise of a
beloved pet. If you can't do this, it seriously reflects on a viscious

side
of your character that should be addressed.

Paul and Muttley (and the spirit of Photon, RIP)


Whatever the circumstances, I am always sorry to hear the loss of someone's
pet.

FWIW, I had my beloved border collie/shepherd mix drown in a pool accident
last summer while I was gone with my daughter at her weekly riding lesson. I
fished her out myself. It was truly awful. She was nineteen, certainly had
a good life, but my husband remains guilt ridden to this day.

But on a happy note, I was so pleased to read the story of Boris and Mama.
They are home in Michigan, arrived from Iraq. It's a very heartwarming
tale.

Kind regards,

(the)duckster


  #27  
Old February 20th 08, 08:37 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Paul E. Schoen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,654
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster


"(the)duckster" wrote in message
news:hXLuj.5278$kD3.3581@trnddc08...
Whatever the circumstances, I am always sorry to hear the loss of
someone's
pet.

FWIW, I had my beloved border collie/shepherd mix drown in a pool
accident
last summer while I was gone with my daughter at her weekly riding
lesson. I
fished her out myself. It was truly awful. She was nineteen, certainly
had
a good life, but my husband remains guilt ridden to this day.

But on a happy note, I was so pleased to read the story of Boris and
Mama.
They are home in Michigan, arrived from Iraq. It's a very heartwarming
tale.

Kind regards,

(the)duckster


I am sorry to hear of your dog's accident, and I hope your husband does not
let his feelings of guilt diminish his enjoyment of life and ability to
move on. We all make decisions that we may later regret, or think we might
have been able to do something differently, but we should find comfort in
the fact that we have done the best we could given the situation at the
time. We are constantly learning, and we can be so obsessed with caution
that we never really do anything meaningful in life.

Thanks for understanding. I have always given lots of love to my animals,
and also a good bit of freedom, which comes at the price of some risk.
There was really no way for me to have kept Photon always indoors and safe
from harm. There have been many times that I had to go in and out the door
with arms full of firewood or groceries or tools or whatever, and I would
have had to lock her in a room or a crate while I did so. And she was very
adept at taking any opportunity to slip out, when I tried to keep her in.

It was very nice to be able to walk around my land with her following me or
going ahead, climbing up into trees and exploring the environment. It would
be wonderful to be able to do that with Muttley, but the very real dangers
of the road, as well as liability and leash laws, do not allow me that
experience. But he does have free roam of the house, and has done very well
about keeping out of trouble.

Yes, the loss of a pet is devastating, and it is unfair and immature for
anyone to keep bringing up the incident in a hurtful manner. I know usenet
is open for anyone to say what they want, and it is one thing for
relatively anonymous regulars to lash out at others, but Janet knows me and
Muttley personally, so her insults are at another level. It also seems that
her behavior is not very professional, and she was my trainer for Muttley.

Paul and Muttley


  #28  
Old February 20th 08, 09:24 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
We are constantly learning,


"We?"

and we can be so obsessed with caution
that we never really do anything meaningful in life.


I'm unclear on how putting your dog at considerable risk in
order to indulge nostalgia about times that never were is
"meaningful." Reasoning about risk involves thinking about
both costs and benefits. I think the main thing we've
learned from your posts is that you go to extraordinary
lengths to avoid doing anything that looks like work.

There have been many times that I had to go in and out the door
with arms full of firewood or groceries or tools or whatever, and I would
have had to lock her in a room or a crate while I did so.


Hey, Paul - train your ****ing animals and learn to use your
klutzy, inept body . Do you really think you're the only
person who goes in and out of doors with their arms full?

It also seems that
her behavior is not very professional, and she was my trainer for Muttley.


No, you're your trainer for Muttley. (Or not.)
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #29  
Old February 20th 08, 12:18 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,155
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster

sionnach wrote:

Um, well.... neither is Paul's, according to his posts.


I realize that now. I have periodically plonked Paul, so I missed
how Photon died.

Nor do I - and I have dogs who have actually caught both rabbits
and mice. The skill set is quite different.


Ditto and agreed.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #30  
Old February 20th 08, 12:19 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,155
Default New mousetrap is Muttley's oyster

sionnach wrote:

I'm not sure what your definition of "not too cold" and "nice evening" is,
but the temperatures that week were in the 30s at night, and it was windy -
here's what Frank Roylance at the Sun had to say about the weather at the
time:


JFWIW, Weather Underground has historical weather data, in case you
want a quick way to look up temperatures, precipitation, etc. for
particular dates.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
 




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