Allergies

11 year old Brittany. Generally very active and healthy except for
skin allergies.

She is extremely itchy from about April thru October. Licking and
biting, mostly on/near the paws. By Aug. of every year she looks a
hulluva mess.

The vet and I have been over the issue for years. Nothing has seemed
to help. She gets prednisone every summer. It wasn't very helpful
last season.

I have heard that a grain-free diet has helped with some dogs. I fed
her Eukanuba for years. She's now getting Canidae All-Life-Stage,
G/C, salmon oil, Missing Link.

Given that the allergies don't much bother her Nov.-March, is there
any rational expectation that a g-f diet might help?

I have also heard that the Ultimate Allergy Screen SPOT panel from
Spectrum Labs (www.vetallergy.com/pages/testingpanels.html) can
be very helpful in identifying allergic substances. Such tests
are run from blood samples only. It might help a great deal if
I could learn what substances are causing the problems. Of course,
if they're all inhalants, I'm out of luck.

When I ask my vet (who uses VARL tests), he tells me:

a.) It is not possible to test blood for food allergies.
b.) A grain-free diet will not help.

He does sell special and very expensive diet stuff, likely Hills e/z
or somesuch. He fairly berated me for asking about stuff I'd heard
about on net discussion groups (wasting his time).

Does anyone have any experience with blood testing for allergies?
The Spectrum Spot tests?

Should I think about finding a new vet?

Thanks,
Peetie

Peetie Wheatstraw said in
rec.pets.dogs.health:

Should I think about finding a new vet?

I can't address the allergy/grain thing, but I went through a
similar thing with Rocky's vet after Rocky's epilepsy onset. He
told me not to believe anything from the web (his term, not
mine). I told him that I wasn't stupid and could tell credible
information from not, especially after filtering tons of reading
with a pretty well honed bullshit detector. (Maybe not those
exact words.)

Anyway, I was passing everything by him, so what was the
problem? It didn't take long for Rocky's vet to come around,
and we have a really good relationship.

If your vet is not willing to make diagnosis and treatment a two
way discussion, then I'd look for another. First, though, I'd
make my expectations clear.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
...

She is extremely itchy from about April thru October
Nothing has seemed to help. She gets prednisone every summer. It wasn't
very helpful
last season.

..........Does your dog stay in the house or is it an outside dog? Where
does she itch - everywhere or does she bite paws? Have you tried wiping
with a damp cloth before bringing inside or frequent plain water rinses?
Tried Benedryl?

I have heard that a grain-free diet has helped with some dogs.

.......I don't see how this can be food allergy if it's limited to season.

I have also heard that the Ultimate Allergy Screen SPOT panel from
Spectrum Labs (www.vetallergy.com/pages/testingpanels.html) can
be very helpful in identifying allergic substances. Such tests
are run from blood samples only. It might help a great deal if
I could learn what substances are causing the problems. Of course,
if they're all inhalants, I'm out of luck.

.........Don't know if they really work. And as you said, how can it help if
they're inhalants? What kind of pollen is there from April to October?
These are often listed on weather channels.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 10:48:00 -0500, "buglady" wrote:


"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
.. .

She is extremely itchy from about April thru October
Nothing has seemed to help. She gets prednisone every summer. It wasn't
very helpful
last season.

.........Does your dog stay in the house or is it an outside dog?

We are in a dense urban area. Mostly inside with trips to fenced
yard. I walk her up to 2 mi. a day in good weather.

Where
does she itch - everywhere or does she bite paws?

Mostly on/around paws. Some on her breast in July-Sept. She wipes her
schnoz on the rug fairly often.

Have you tried wiping
with a damp cloth before bringing inside or frequent plain water rinses?

Yes. Didn't much seem to help.

Tried Benedryl?

Tried numerous decongestants.

I have heard that a grain-free diet has helped with some dogs.

......I don't see how this can be food allergy if it's limited to season.

I have also heard that the Ultimate Allergy Screen SPOT panel from
Spectrum Labs (www.vetallergy.com/pages/testingpanels.html) can
be very helpful in identifying allergic substances. Such tests
are run from blood samples only. It might help a great deal if
I could learn what substances are causing the problems. Of course,
if they're all inhalants, I'm out of luck.

........Don't know if they really work. And as you said, how can it help if
they're inhalants? What kind of pollen is there from April to October?
These are often listed on weather channels.

See http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2735

If she is allergic to numerous substances and I can ID most/all, I might
be able to relieve some of her suffering. Hopefully worth a try.

Thx,
Peetie

On 2008-02-29 22:07:10 -0500, Rocky said:

If your vet is not willing to make diagnosis and treatment a two
way discussion, then I'd look for another. First, though, I'd
make my expectations clear.

This is such good advice that I wanted to see it again.

Our vet also had a problem with getting suggestions "from the web" but
softened when I asked him what the difference was between the Merck
Veterinary Manual on the web and the one he had in his office.

Since that time and over time, he has been tremendously open to
discussion. We also had to step up our level of communication and that
included providing better, more specific observations if possible.

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
...
See http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2735

If she is allergic to numerous substances and I can ID most/all, I might
be able to relieve some of her suffering. Hopefully worth a try.

.........Interesting article, not seen that one before. I was thinking that
it could be that your dog is highly sensitized and grains could be
exacerbating the issue, but didn't know if there was any backup for that
thinking. In any case, it certainly won't hurt your dog to go grain free.
There are some foods on the market, while having carbs, are grain free that
you might try to see if it makes any difference. I'd aim for a food with
the least amount of ingredients......or make your own. In any case you
won't get to see if it works until next allergy season probably. If food is
part of the issue, I'd make sure the dog gets probiotics for a couple of
months plus L-glutamine to see if that helps any food sensitivity issue.

I honestly don't know about the tests. Some people seem to have had some
luck with them, others don't believe they work.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
...
Given that the allergies don't much bother her Nov.-March, is there
any rational expectation that a g-f diet might help?

There might be some. I know one of my guy's brothers has some seasonal
itchiness. Tended to go bald on his flank when ever he shed his coat.
Eventually the owner found a food that worked for him. I believe it was a
product called "Wellness" that had 5 ingredients in it (total). I wouldn't
automatically pin it to grains though. Could be just about anything.

I have also heard that the Ultimate Allergy Screen SPOT panel from
Spectrum Labs (www.vetallergy.com/pages/testingpanels.html) can
be very helpful in identifying allergic substances. Such tests
are run from blood samples only. It might help a great deal if
I could learn what substances are causing the problems. Of course,
if they're all inhalants, I'm out of luck.

When I ask my vet (who uses VARL tests), he tells me:

a.) It is not possible to test blood for food allergies.

How did you approach him? What exactly did you ask? There are a lot of
people out there who will believe everything they read (far, far more than
will actually critically evaluate what they read).

My own approach would be "Some recommended this to me: I think it looks
interesting. What do you think?" Come with a few print outs etc
(particularly the technical looking ones)

b.) A grain-free diet will not help.

Unless you try it, you can't know for sure. He could strongly suspect a
grain free diet won't help, but there is always the potential that it will.


He does sell special and very expensive diet stuff, likely Hills e/z
or somesuch.

z/d? Could help. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Don't know how
expensive that food is typically, but you can get a number of
hypo-allergenic foods at pet specialty stores, which may be a bit cheaper.

He fairly berated me for asking about stuff I'd heard
about on net discussion groups (wasting his time).

You have to be a little careful about how you approach them. Some of them
are a little sensitive. There is a lot of crappy information out there on
the net, especially where diet is concerned, and I'm afraid some of them get
a little 'nostalgic' for the pre-net days (he shouldn't have gotten upset
with you, but looking at it from his perspective might help you understand
his reaction). If you're going to come with information garnered from the
net, make sure that you've critically looked at the information*, and made
your own judgements, but also be ready to at least listen to his concerns
about it. Remember, he went to school for quite a few years to get where he
is, and very likely has quite a lot more experience in this field than you
do, so his opinion is likely worth listening to.
Its not that I'm saying vets are all knowing. They aren't, by any stretch of
the imagination, its just that most of them know a whole lot more about this
kind of thing than a lot of the pages you see on the net.

Does anyone have any experience with blood testing for allergies?
The Spectrum Spot tests?

Should I think about finding a new vet?

Do you trust his opinion? Do you trust him to recommend what he thinks is
best for your animals? If yes, then stick with him. If know, then I'd go
looking elsewhere.

Dale

* Things to think about when critically evaluating a source on the web:
What kind of evidence do they have for their claims?
Anecdotal? Controlled study?
Most anecdotal evidence isn't worth the bits its transmitted on. Frankly,
you can find an animal that responds in the way you are expecting to just
about anything.
If they are doing research, what kind of controls do they have on their
data? What could interfere with their results? Are the controls appropriate?
Do the authors of the study have any vested interest in getting certain
results? (are they 'trying to show something' or are they investigating
something)

How is the evidence presented?
Is the solution presented as a cure all? Or are there some reservations
about the treatment? Someone who tells you that a grain free diet is going
to solve all the world's allergy problems is, probably isn't to be believed.
Someone on the other hand who tells you that in about x% of cases, we've
noted that allegies will resolve with a grain free diet is maybe more
credible.

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:30:56 -0500, "buglady" wrote:

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
.. .
See http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2735

If she is allergic to numerous substances and I can ID most/all, I might
be able to relieve some of her suffering. Hopefully worth a try.

........Interesting article, not seen that one before. I was thinking that
it could be that your dog is highly sensitized and grains could be
exacerbating the issue, but didn't know if there was any backup for that
thinking.

It seems intuitive (to me). There are so many allergens: she could
be reacting to 4 or 6 or ?. Of course, most/all could be inhalant.

In any case, it certainly won't hurt your dog to go grain free.
There are some foods on the market, while having carbs, are grain free that
you might try to see if it makes any difference. I'd aim for a food with
the least amount of ingredients......or make your own. In any case you
won't get to see if it works until next allergy season probably.

I guess I'll start it in June ...

If food is
part of the issue, I'd make sure the dog gets probiotics for a couple of
months plus L-glutamine to see if that helps any food sensitivity issue.

I honestly don't know about the tests. Some people seem to have had some
luck with them, others don't believe they work.

Cutting-edge technology, I'd wager. Nobody's responded with info on
the Spectrum Spot tests, so it's not likely in wide usage. I'll have
to pass on that unless I can find a vet recommending/using them.

Thanks,
Peetie

I honestly don't know about the tests. Some people seem to have had some
luck with them, others don't believe they work.

Cutting-edge technology, I'd wager. Nobody's responded with info on
the Spectrum Spot tests, so it's not likely in wide usage. I'll have
to pass on that unless I can find a vet recommending/using them.

Not sure why you'd have to pass on them. If you're interested, you should do
it, regardless of what your vet thinks about it. Tell him you'd like to try,
and see what they come up with (get them to draw/prepare the blood for you).

Dale

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
...
I guess I'll start it in June ...

........It takes a few week for nutrition to make a difference, I'd start
earlier and see if you can skip the *itch season* entirely!

buglady
take out the dog before replying