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  #11  
Old July 7th 11, 10:56 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
cshenk
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Posts: 1,078
Default Vet trip

cshenk wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:


Ok, update. After months of dealing with Aunti Mabel's ears 'almost
clearing then getting worse again' we have a hope of solution.
Hopefully this will help another dealing with a chronic ear issue as
well?

The 2 infections cultured are psuedomonus aeruginosa and enterococcus,
plus yeast and a perfect environment for possible fungal addition
though they did not find any.

She had a full blood lab workup with her last visit and all is
excellent so she's a candidate for the following meds which we start
tonight.

Remicin where based on weight and the concentration of this formula,
she gets '5 drops per ear'. This one is for the psuedomonos and is the
one the vet says she doesn't get to use often because of the highish
rate of deafness (and a grunch of other things not related to a spayed
female). This particular infection type is highly resistant to
treatment but this one med works very well. It also reduces
inflammation and swelling.

Zeniquin, this is for the enterococcus and is a general spectrum with
several things we are to watch for but she has been on it before for a
urinary infection and had no problems. Her ears almost cleared then
but the dosage was only 5 days so this time she gets 10 days and if she
doesnt look *totally cleared* we go back in at day 9 for another 10
days worth. For dogs with no adverse reactions, this can be given up
to 30 days but they will do another blood workup on her if they need to
extend it. They have a lab onsite that can give them the results they
need within 30 mins.

She also has a bottle of C/O to be used with her cleaning and another
that is a yeast specific to swap to once we deal with the primary issue.

Due to the meds her feeding has a shift. Do not add her doggie
glucosamine/chondritin additive and shift her to a dashi (fish broth)
nooner. Aim is no added calcium and a few other things that reduce the
effectiveness of the meds. Stop RMB for now but she can have all the
straight raw and organ meats we want to feed her as long as she gets
1/2 the bowl as blue wilderness kibble. Keep her *strictly* grain free
of any wheat, corn or soy as we have been doing.

Wish her luck! The aulde bitch has been through plenty and deserves to
have ears that don't itch and hurt!


--

  #12  
Old July 10th 11, 10:12 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Char
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Posts: 771
Default Vet trip

On 7/7/2011 5:56 PM, cshenk wrote:
cshenk wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:


Ok, update. After months of dealing with Aunti Mabel's ears 'almost
clearing then getting worse again' we have a hope of solution.
Hopefully this will help another dealing with a chronic ear issue as
well?

The 2 infections cultured are psuedomonus aeruginosa and enterococcus,
plus yeast and a perfect environment for possible fungal addition
though they did not find any.

She had a full blood lab workup with her last visit and all is
excellent so she's a candidate for the following meds which we start
tonight.

Remicin where based on weight and the concentration of this formula,
she gets '5 drops per ear'. This one is for the psuedomonos and is the
one the vet says she doesn't get to use often because of the highish
rate of deafness (and a grunch of other things not related to a spayed
female). This particular infection type is highly resistant to
treatment but this one med works very well. It also reduces
inflammation and swelling.

Zeniquin, this is for the enterococcus and is a general spectrum with
several things we are to watch for but she has been on it before for a
urinary infection and had no problems. Her ears almost cleared then
but the dosage was only 5 days so this time she gets 10 days and if she
doesnt look *totally cleared* we go back in at day 9 for another 10
days worth. For dogs with no adverse reactions, this can be given up
to 30 days but they will do another blood workup on her if they need to
extend it. They have a lab onsite that can give them the results they
need within 30 mins.

She also has a bottle of C/O to be used with her cleaning and another
that is a yeast specific to swap to once we deal with the primary issue.

Due to the meds her feeding has a shift. Do not add her doggie
glucosamine/chondritin additive and shift her to a dashi (fish broth)
nooner. Aim is no added calcium and a few other things that reduce the
effectiveness of the meds. Stop RMB for now but she can have all the
straight raw and organ meats we want to feed her as long as she gets
1/2 the bowl as blue wilderness kibble. Keep her *strictly* grain free
of any wheat, corn or soy as we have been doing.

Wish her luck! The aulde bitch has been through plenty and deserves to
have ears that don't itch and hurt!


And you could have done it with absolutely no side effects and no harm
to the dog at all. Chronic issues come from resistance to antibiotics
which can't happen with colloidal silver. There would be no MRSA if
antibiotics weren't used in the first place.

http://www.silverpuppy.com/drclarknews.html

You can lead a horse to water....
  #13  
Old July 10th 11, 11:06 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default Vet trip

Char wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Wish her luck! The aulde bitch has been through plenty and
deserves to have ears that don't itch and hurt!


And you could have done it with absolutely no side effects and no
harm to the dog at all. Chronic issues come from resistance to
antibiotics which can't happen with colloidal silver. There would be
no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place.


Char, this is not MRSA and colloidal silver would not come even faintly
close to treating this.

I am however glad to report that after 2 days, she is showing definate
signs of healing and there are no side effects. I was a little worried
she might have lose stools which at her age is something you have to
react to fast, but she hasnt.




-

  #14  
Old July 11th 11, 12:33 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Dogman[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Vet trip

On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:12:55 -0400, Char
wrote:

There would be no MRSA if
antibiotics weren't used in the first place.


But millions more human beings would now be dead/dying from
tuberculosis, typhoid fever, bubonic plague, bacterial meningitis,
etc.

Some people are utterly unable to differentiate between: 1) antibiotic
ABUSE, 2) using antibiotics wisely. And you're one of them, Char.

--
Dogman
  #15  
Old July 11th 11, 08:59 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default Vet trip

Dogman wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:12:55 -0400, Char
wrote:

There would be no MRSA if
antibiotics weren't used in the first place.


But millions more human beings would now be dead/dying from
tuberculosis, typhoid fever, bubonic plague, bacterial meningitis,
etc.

Some people are utterly unable to differentiate between: 1) antibiotic
ABUSE, 2) using antibiotics wisely. And you're one of them, Char.


True.

We tried everything else for several months. Day 3, very obviously
getting better. No signs of any problems from the meds at all. She's
on relatively low doses due to her size. If this doesnt kick it, they
can almost double them for another 2 weeks after this set if they need
to.

Query, have you or any others here had this psuedomonous or
enterococcus to deal with? My vet says it's not that common around
here and very hard to fix. Specifically, it wont be fixed with any
standard ear cleaning solutions unlike yeast can be.




--

  #16  
Old July 12th 11, 04:32 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Dogman[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Vet trip

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:59:41 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:

Dogman wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:12:55 -0400, Char
wrote:

There would be no MRSA if
antibiotics weren't used in the first place.


But millions more human beings would now be dead/dying from
tuberculosis, typhoid fever, bubonic plague, bacterial meningitis,
etc.

Some people are utterly unable to differentiate between: 1) antibiotic
ABUSE, 2) using antibiotics wisely. And you're one of them, Char.


True.

We tried everything else for several months. Day 3, very obviously
getting better. No signs of any problems from the meds at all. She's
on relatively low doses due to her size. If this doesnt kick it, they
can almost double them for another 2 weeks after this set if they need
to.

Query, have you or any others here had this psuedomonous or
enterococcus to deal with? My vet says it's not that common around
here and very hard to fix. Specifically, it wont be fixed with any
standard ear cleaning solutions unlike yeast can be.


I wouldn't think that cleaning solutions would be able to fix them,
but it likely helps to prevent them.

My dogs spend a lot of time in water and in the field, so it's
imperative that I keep their ears clean. I clean their ears after
every swim and/or trip to the field. It's easy to do, the dogs
actually enjoy having their ears cleaned (they love having their ears
massaged), and I just never have any serious ear problems, kiddo.

I hope your dog finally gets some relief.

--
Dogman
  #17  
Old July 12th 11, 09:03 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Jo Wolf
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Posts: 479
Default Vet trip

Unfortunately, pseudamonas aeruginosa has been resistant to drugs for
MANY years, back into the 1960s that I am aware of. It's a common
contaminant in burn wounds, where it kills. In the 1960s, a sulfa
compound, applied topically, was found to be fairly effective against
it... until it went systematic. Sulfamylon, a very acidic cream, was
the most effective at one point. •Into the 1980s, early1990s, this
was sometimes diluted and used for p.a. in the ear, twice a day, in
dogs.• Your vets might talk to the dogs at the nearest burn unit or
major teaching hospital, to see if it's still available. I know that at
one point it was available in tubes, rather than only the 2 lb jars we
used in the hospital.

We experimented with silver nitrate mixed in sulfadiazine cream for burn
wounds in patients who went into a severe acidotic state with sulfmylon
or who were allergic to that particular sulfa drug.... but it was not as
effective. Previous to that, and since then, as well, thick wet
dressings, changed at least twice a day, saturated with silver nitrate
solution, were used for those who could not tolerate sulfas. It was not
highly effective, and really only worked fairly well on small (under 20%
body surface) burns that were mostly 2nd degree. These stain EVERYTHING
a dull black, making it difficult to tell if the environment is being
kept clean enough... DO NOT confuse silver nitrate with "colloidal
silver". Ain't the same. From 1968 to 1972, I worked with all of these
at the Army's Institute of Surgical Research ("the burn unit") at Brooke
Army Medical Center, Fort Sam Houston, TX.

Enterococcus species are a pistol to deal with as they are everywhere,
and have become increasingly difficult to treat with antibacterials and
antibiotics. Culture and sensitivity testing, which is what had been
done in this case, would have told the docs what would work best.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

  #18  
Old July 12th 11, 11:30 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default Vet trip

Dogman wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:59:41 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:

Dogman wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:12:55 -0400, Char

wrote:

There would be no MRSA if
antibiotics weren't used in the first place.

But millions more human beings would now be dead/dying from
tuberculosis, typhoid fever, bubonic plague, bacterial meningitis,
etc.

Some people are utterly unable to differentiate between: 1)

antibiotic ABUSE, 2) using antibiotics wisely. And you're one of
them, Char.

True.

We tried everything else for several months. Day 3, very obviously
getting better. No signs of any problems from the meds at all.
She's on relatively low doses due to her size. If this doesnt kick
it, they can almost double them for another 2 weeks after this set
if they need to.

Query, have you or any others here had this psuedomonous or
enterococcus to deal with? My vet says it's not that common around
here and very hard to fix. Specifically, it wont be fixed with any
standard ear cleaning solutions unlike yeast can be.


I wouldn't think that cleaning solutions would be able to fix them,
but it likely helps to prevent them.

My dogs spend a lot of time in water and in the field, so it's
imperative that I keep their ears clean. I clean their ears after
every swim and/or trip to the field. It's easy to do, the dogs
actually enjoy having their ears cleaned (they love having their ears
massaged), and I just never have any serious ear problems, kiddo.

I hope your dog finally gets some relief.


Yes, and thanks. Until the culture test, no one knew for sure what was
going on. Now my vet is kicking herself for not suggesting it earlier
(and i didn't know there was such as thing beyond what their own lab
does so couldnt ask for one).

Cash enjoys his cleaning too, when he gets a yeast infection as he's
prone to if he gets at wheat/corn/soy (suspect wheat mostly but not
sure).

She's been jumping through sprinklers and over tufts of grass the past
48 hours. Very much a change here.

I think her main complaint right now is Cash gets fed more but then,
he's naturally almost twice her size!

--

  #19  
Old July 12th 11, 11:46 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default Vet trip

Jo Wolf wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Unfortunately, pseudamonas aeruginosa has been resistant to drugs for
MANY years, back into the 1960s that I am aware of. It's a common
contaminant in burn wounds, where it kills. In the 1960s, a sulfa
compound, applied topically, was found to be fairly effective against
it... until it went systematic. Sulfamylon, a very acidic cream, was
the most effective at one point. Into the 1980s, early1990s, this
was sometimes diluted and used for p.a. in the ear, twice a day, in
dogs. Your vets might talk to the dogs at the nearest burn unit or
major teaching hospital, to see if it's still available. I know that
at one point it was available in tubes, rather than only the 2 lb
jars we used in the hospital.

We experimented with silver nitrate mixed in sulfadiazine cream for
burn wounds in patients who went into a severe acidotic state with
sulfmylon or who were allergic to that particular sulfa drug.... but
it was not as effective. Previous to that, and since then, as well,
thick wet dressings, changed at least twice a day, saturated with
silver nitrate solution, were used for those who could not tolerate
sulfas. It was not highly effective, and really only worked fairly
well on small (under 20% body surface) burns that were mostly 2nd
degree. These stain EVERYTHING a dull black, making it difficult to
tell if the environment is being kept clean enough... DO NOT confuse
silver nitrate with "colloidal silver". Ain't the same. From 1968
to 1972, I worked with all of these at the Army's Institute of
Surgical Research ("the burn unit") at Brooke Army Medical Center,
Fort Sam Houston, TX.

Enterococcus species are a pistol to deal with as they are everywhere,
and have become increasingly difficult to treat with antibacterials
and antibiotics. Culture and sensitivity testing, which is what had
been done in this case, would have told the docs what would work best.


Thanks Jo, this matches what the vet told me (without burn reference to
humans of course). *Both* are hard to fix and none of the standard
treatments did more than irritate her poor sore ears.

The two are being treated by a combination of pill for anti-bacterial
and a drop form in a small tube. The Zeniquin is the drop form in a
tube and the one they normally will not use on normal dogs because of
higher incidence of causing deafness (sometimes temporary, sometimes
not). In Aunti Mabel's case, a moot point and the most effective on
the market.

Grin, don't worry, 'collodial silver' utterly not the same. I'll
goggle the zeniquin again as I think I saw that silver nitrate is a
small part of what is in there but I'm no chemist. There was plenty of
other stuff besides that in the zeniquin.

Her ears still do not look 'healthy' but they look so much more
tremendously better, it's definate this is working.

--

  #20  
Old July 15th 11, 02:26 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Char
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 771
Default Vet trip

On 7/10/2011 6:06 PM, cshenk wrote:
Char wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Wish her luck! The aulde bitch has been through plenty and
deserves to have ears that don't itch and hurt!


And you could have done it with absolutely no side effects and no
harm to the dog at all. Chronic issues come from resistance to
antibiotics which can't happen with colloidal silver. There would be
no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place.

Char, this is not MRSA and colloidal silver would not come even faintly
close to treating this.


Ms Misinformed, yes indeed it would have treated it.

"An antibiotic kills perhaps a half-dozen different disease organisms,
but silver kills some 650. Resistant strains fail to develop. Moreover,
silver is virtually non-toxic."

"After the development of the patented antibiotics,
silver was forgotten in the United States and most other places,
although the antibiotics are only effective against bacteria, not
viruses, yeast, or fungi. (like CS does)"

Just once, admit you talk out your ass and don't have a clue.


I am however glad to report that after 2 days, she is showing definate
signs of healing and there are no side effects. I was a little worried
she might have lose stools which at her age is something you have to
react to fast, but she hasnt.




-


 




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