Chicken Jerky - safe or not ?

I have a 5 year old Pomeranian who has had pacreatitis 3 times already.
I used to try to make her own food by boiling beef or chicken to get rid
of as much oil/greese as possible and then mix it with rice and vegetables.
But then after a couple of bouts with pancreatitis the vet said "NO HUMAN
FOOD". Strictly hard food for her.

She is a very fussy eater and recently I tried giving her some canned food
for a change and she ended up with pancreatitis once more. Back to dry
food only.

I began giving her chicken jerky treats as a reward for eating the dry
food. But my girlfriend informed me that the jerkys weren't good for
the dog. That she heard the additives could cause kidney problems
and the chicken itself might bring on pancreatitis.

The treats I've been giving are AKC brand chicken jerky. The listed
ingrediants a
chicken, sorbitol, glycerine, sugar, salt.

Can anyone attest to whether or not this treat can harm my dog ?

TIA

Paul

Depends on how much fat is in the treat.... and how big the treat that
she gets happens to be. For a Pomeranian..... that's not much Dog....
so the treat can and should essentially be broken off to the size of the
nail on your little finger and still be terrific to her. Once or twice
a day. It's the idea that it comes from your hand. You actually can
use her dry food as treats..... a piece at a time. And I have used
single plain Cheerios. (Have had a dog with this problem.)

This is a guess, but the canned food you gave her may have had just
enough more protein and fat than the dry food to kick her into
pancreatitis...... Just plain "too rich". Or it was a sudden addition,
not starting with half a teaspoonful for 2-3 days and 3/4 teaspoonfull
for a few more days..... etc. Often, with a history of pancreatitis,
ANY significant change in diet will kick them over into an episode. For
such a small dog it doesn't take much to be "significant" in size of
change. Often the problem is too much fat. Or combination of amount of
fat and protein. Or change of base ingredients (different grain or
different animal protein). With her having had several episodes of
pancreatitis.... changes in diet are not good.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 00:25:53 -0400, Jo Wolf wrote:

Depends on how much fat is in the treat.... and how big the treat that she
gets happens to be. For a Pomeranian..... that's not much Dog.... so the
treat can and should essentially be broken off to the size of the nail on
your little finger and still be terrific to her. Once or twice a day.
It's the idea that it comes from your hand. You actually can use her dry
food as treats..... a piece at a time. And I have used single plain
Cheerios. (Have had a dog with this problem.)

This is a guess, but the canned food you gave her may have had just enough
more protein and fat than the dry food to kick her into pancreatitis......
Just plain "too rich". Or it was a sudden addition, not starting with
half a teaspoonful for 2-3 days and 3/4 teaspoonfull for a few more
days..... etc. Often, with a history of pancreatitis, ANY significant
change in diet will kick them over into an episode. For such a small dog
it doesn't take much to be "significant" in size of change. Often the
problem is too much fat. Or combination of amount of fat and protein. Or
change of base ingredients (different grain or different animal protein).
With her having had several episodes of pancreatitis.... changes in diet
are not good.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

Thanks Jo. I'm trying real hard to keep her on her current dry food which
is "Taste of the Wild - Water Fowl". It just drives me crazy to see her
go a day or two not eating. She gets fussy as all get up. I do know that
she will eventually eat. It was bad of me to think that I had to reward
her with a chewy just because she finally breaks down and eats the
dry food. And now she has formed the habit of eating some dry food
and then she sits across from me and just stares at me with those big
brown eyes. If I ignore her she'll start barking and kicking up a fuss
until she gets her chewy.

ingrediants a
Chicken, Sorbitol, Glycerine, Sugar, Salt.

The guarenteed analysis:
Crude Prtein (min) 60.0%
Crude Fat (min) 1.0%
Crude Fat (max) 6.0%
Crude Fiber (max) 2.0%
Moisture 18.0%

= Paul =

"Paul J. Dudley" wrote in message
news And now she has formed the habit of eating some dry food
and then she sits across from me and just stares at me with those big
brown eyes. If I ignore her she'll start barking and kicking up a fuss
until she gets her chewy.

.............I'd say your dog has you well trained! Why don't you teach her
some tricks, or do some kind of dog activity with her? She needs an outlet
for all those smarts! I had a friend that had him Pom trained to take a
dollar bill from his wallet upon command. And you might try the no free
lunch idea. Make her do something for that treat besides bark. Sit, lay
down, roll over. Then reward with a PIECE of chewy, not whole thing.

ingrediants a
Chicken, Sorbitol, Glycerine, Sugar, Salt.

The guarenteed analysis:
Crude Prtein (min) 60.0%
Crude Fat (min) 1.0%
Crude Fat (max) 6.0%
Crude Fiber (max) 2.0%
Moisture 18.0%
............personally that doesn't seem too high in fat to me. All dogs are
different. If she reacts, quit using it.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

Originally Posted by Jo Wolf

Depends on how much fat is in the treat.... and how big the treat that
she gets happens to be. For a Pomeranian..... that's not much Dog....
so the treat can and should essentially be broken off to the size of the
nail on your little finger and still be terrific to her. Once or twice
a day. It's the idea that it comes from your hand. You actually can
use her dry food as treats..... a piece at a time. And I have used
single plain Cheerios. (Have had a dog with this problem.)

This is a guess, but the canned food you gave her may have had just
enough more protein and fat than the dry food to kick her into
pancreatitis...... Just plain "too rich". Or it was a sudden addition,
not starting with half a teaspoonful for 2-3 days and 3/4 teaspoonfull
for a few more days..... etc. Often, with a history of pancreatitis,
ANY significant change in diet will kick them over into an episode. For
such a small dog it doesn't take much to be "significant" in size of
change. Often the problem is too much fat. Or combination of amount of
fat and protein. Or change of base ingredients (different grain or
different animal protein). With her having had several episodes of
pancreatitis.... changes in diet are not good.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

Thank you for the info.......

Paul.... It looks essentially safe, but it is VERY high protein. I'd
stick with a couple of pieces the size of green pea per day.... and
buglady is right. She should EARN those treats!

Because Taste of the Wild Water Fowl is one of the foods in the rotation
I use for my greedy gobblers, I know that it's fairly high protein and a
bit above usual in fat. You can consider popping it in the microwave
(microwave-safe bowl, NOT plastic or metal, of course) for about 15-30
seconds to heat it enough to bring up the scent and flavor. Or pouring
a bit of hot tap water over it just before you set the bowl down will do
much the same thing.

And buglady is right about your sweetie having YOU trained. Um......
Who pays the bills here???? YOU do, so you get to call all the plays.
Not one too-cute little Pom lady. So she should be on a "nothing in
life is free routine". Fortunately, this is not "hard" on her.... it
just re-trains YOU. Basically, she just has to DO something to earn
everything "good".... a walk, petting, dinner, a toy, a game with you,
a treat. Below I've put the addresses for a couple of interesting
articles. The first explains pack structure and how it works. The
second describes a "nothing in life is free" program.

http://www.phouka.com/dogs/dog_pack.html

http://wwwgreyhoundlist.org/nothing_is_free.htm

And a search will turn up almost dozens of these program descriptions
if you want to compare some. The dog must perform a command correctly
and promptly to get a "good" thing. Not done promptly and correctly?
Well..... that "good" goes away for the time being. It's not fair to
ask the dog to do something it doesn't know how to do on command. You
can use sit, down, come, stand, and any trick you've taught her. I
don't use the same command every time for the same thing.... for
instance, dinner isn't always earned by doing a sit. Sometimes it's a
sit, a down, a twirl, a touch (my palm), a roll over.... wave, bow, or
shake hands.... show me your nose.... where's your tail.... bring the
ball.... A little motivation to teach her a few new tricks or commands?

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 16:10:17 -0400, buglady wrote:


"Paul J. Dudley" wrote in message
news And now she has formed the habit of eating some dry food
and then she sits across from me and just stares at me with those big
brown eyes. If I ignore her she'll start barking and kicking up a fuss
until she gets her chewy.

............I'd say your dog has you well trained! Why don't you teach
her some tricks, or do some kind of dog activity with her? She needs an
outlet for all those smarts! I had a friend that had him Pom trained to
take a dollar bill from his wallet upon command. And you might try the no
free lunch idea. Make her do something for that treat besides bark. Sit,
lay down, roll over. Then reward with a PIECE of chewy, not whole thing.

One thing I learned early on is that Poms (at least in Sandys case)
are hyperactive. I also learned that this meant helping her burn it
off with activity. I play with her (with toys), we wrestle, go for
walks and she even helps me with lawn chores. I believe this
activity has paid off in her obediance. She obeys most commands
very well. She knows the diff between yes-no, good-bad, 'good for
her' verses 'it will hurt her' etc.

But yes you are correct. She has also taught me a few bad habits.

ingrediants a
Chicken, Sorbitol, Glycerine, Sugar, Salt.

The guarenteed analysis:
Crude Prtein (min) 60.0%
Crude Fat (min) 1.0%
Crude Fat (max) 6.0%
Crude Fiber (max) 2.0%
Moisture 18.0%
...........personally that doesn't seem too high in fat to me. All dogs
are different. If she reacts, quit using it.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

She was doing well as a pup with eating but then came the
widely publicised "dog food scares". I changed her diet to
home made dog food. She loved it at first but then taught me
how fussy she could be. Then after a couple of bouts with
pancreatitis I was told to give her hard dog food only. I then
looked into various so called natural diets. And that is where
Taste of the Wild came in. And although she seemed to like
it eventually periodic fussy behavior came into play. And
that was when I began giving her chicken jerky rewards.
She never would eat dog biscuits or any other dog treats.
Yes ... I created a monster. I take full blame. And now I have
to get back to regular feeding. And if she turns her nose up - fine.
Better luck tomorrow. And yes, we just came in from messing
around out in the yard.

Thank you

Paul

Paul..... consider an issue I had with just one of my usually-greedy
terriers..... and see if you think it might fit Miz Sandy.... {grin}'

Every now and then, Schroeder would go on a skip-meals pattern of
eating.... when he was perfectly healthy. I did a little playing
around, and I finally reached the conclusion that the little snort was
just self-regulating his caloric intake! He stayed Very slim, no matter
what I tried, to put just a bit of insulation on his frame in the
winter. I stopped adding an extra bit of food to his dish , and he
stayed Very slim, but ate everything regularly. When he skipped a meal
or left food when the weather began to warm up again, I knew it was time
to drop back to the lower amount of food he's eat during the summer.
Wierd, yes.

Now, for Sandy, the difference may just be a tablespoonful of kibble....
or just a few pieces. Use a set of kitchen measuring cups (even spoons)
to measure her food. When she leaves some, measure that leftover amount
and jot it down on the calendar. After 2-3 months, go back and see if
those "partial" days show similar amounts and/or similar separations
in time (days, weeks). IF so, do an average of the left over amounts
and reduce her week's ration by that average amount, then follow to see
if she eats everything more regularly.

This pattern of self-regulation is not terribly common. One vet in the
practice I used then was convinced I was crazy.... but the other two
said they made the same suggestion to some clients who were concerned
about a similar issue with one or more dogs, and reported "problem
solved".

She sounds like a really fun dog! 25 years ago I had a friend who bred
show Poms..... loved those puff-ball puppies. She used a plastic milk
crate with a solid plywood bottom as their first
"playpen"....

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 23:42:14 -0400, Jo Wolf wrote:

Paul..... consider an issue I had with just one of my usually-greedy
terriers..... and see if you think it might fit Miz Sandy.... {grin}'

Every now and then, Schroeder would go on a skip-meals pattern of
eating.... when he was perfectly healthy. I did a little playing around,
and I finally reached the conclusion that the little snort was just
self-regulating his caloric intake! He stayed Very slim, no matter what I
tried, to put just a bit of insulation on his frame in the winter. I
stopped adding an extra bit of food to his dish , and he stayed Very slim,
but ate everything regularly. When he skipped a meal or left food when
the weather began to warm up again, I knew it was time to drop back to the
lower amount of food he's eat during the summer. Wierd, yes.

Now, for Sandy, the difference may just be a tablespoonful of kibble....
or just a few pieces. Use a set of kitchen measuring cups (even spoons)
to measure her food. When she leaves some, measure that leftover amount
and jot it down on the calendar. After 2-3 months, go back and see if
those "partial" days show similar amounts and/or similar separations in
time (days, weeks). IF so, do an average of the left over amounts and
reduce her week's ration by that average amount, then follow to see if she
eats everything more regularly.

This pattern of self-regulation is not terribly common. One vet in the
practice I used then was convinced I was crazy.... but the other two said
they made the same suggestion to some clients who were concerned about a
similar issue with one or more dogs, and reported "problem solved".

She sounds like a really fun dog! 25 years ago I had a friend who bred
show Poms..... loved those puff-ball puppies. She used a plastic milk
crate with a solid plywood bottom as their first "playpen"....

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

Awsome... to say the least ( .. are you sure you're not part Pom? ).
I will take your suggestion(s) and put them to work. I do know that
Sandy wouldn't starve herself to death - she would eat sooner or
later. I will monitor her intake etc when she eats and keep track.
She is so frail - her weight fluxuates betwee 5.5 - 6.2 pounds. She
really is no bigger than a big sqirrel when shes wet. She looks twice
her size due to her puff-ball hair.

I had one of those free web sites loaded with pics of her. But the site
has since closed down. You can view a small clip of her at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16rws68BNR0

Thanks again for your help,

= Paul =

On Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:10:24 -0500, Paul J. Dudley wrote:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 23:42:14 -0400, Jo Wolf wrote:

Paul..... consider an issue I had with just one of my usually-greedy
terriers..... and see if you think it might fit Miz Sandy.... {grin}'

Every now and then, Schroeder would go on a skip-meals pattern of
eating.... when he was perfectly healthy. I did a little playing
around, and I finally reached the conclusion that the little snort was
just self-regulating his caloric intake! He stayed Very slim, no matter
what I tried, to put just a bit of insulation on his frame in the
winter. I stopped adding an extra bit of food to his dish , and he
stayed Very slim, but ate everything regularly. When he skipped a meal
or left food when the weather began to warm up again, I knew it was time
to drop back to the lower amount of food he's eat during the summer.
Wierd, yes.

Now, for Sandy, the difference may just be a tablespoonful of kibble....
or just a few pieces. Use a set of kitchen measuring cups (even spoons)
to measure her food. When she leaves some, measure that leftover amount
and jot it down on the calendar. After 2-3 months, go back and see if
those "partial" days show similar amounts and/or similar separations
in
time (days, weeks). IF so, do an average of the left over amounts and
reduce her week's ration by that average amount, then follow to see if
she eats everything more regularly.

This pattern of self-regulation is not terribly common. One vet in the
practice I used then was convinced I was crazy.... but the other two
said they made the same suggestion to some clients who were concerned
about a similar issue with one or more dogs, and reported "problem
solved".

She sounds like a really fun dog! 25 years ago I had a friend who bred
show Poms..... loved those puff-ball puppies. She used a plastic milk
crate with a solid plywood bottom as their first "playpen"....

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

Awsome... to say the least ( .. are you sure you're not part Pom? ).
I will take your suggestion(s) and put them to work. I do know that Sandy
wouldn't starve herself to death - she would eat sooner or later. I will
monitor her intake etc when she eats and keep track. She is so frail -
her weight fluxuates betwee 5.5 - 6.2 pounds. She really is no bigger
than a big sqirrel when shes wet. She looks twice her size due to her
puff-ball hair.

I had one of those free web sites loaded with pics of her. But the site
has since closed down. You can view a small clip of her at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16rws68BNR0

Thanks again for your help,

= Paul =

I just created a new site w/some pics.
http://dudley.onlinewebshop.net/
The only working links are under "Pictures of Sandy"

= Paul =