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When is the right time to neuter ??
On 4/30/2011 4:20 PM, cshenk wrote:
"Char" wrote kundian wrote: I have 3 month old lab and was wondering when is the right time to get him neutered ?? Neutering can interfere with how a dog grows so if you insist on doing it please wait until he's sexually mature, especially if you plan on doing agility or other athletics with your dog. Statistics show that neutered dogs have more injuries than dogs that are left natural. I think Kundian was looking for something a bit less vague. No earlier than 6 months, preference for 1 year. *Why? What research are you basing that on? Responsible pet owners don't neuter at all because they feel removing body parts just for our own convenience isn't fair to the animal and can cause harm in the future. Lord Char. Responsible owners neuter. Rare exceptions are those doing reputable breeding with a plan for the pups and folks like that don't ask here for the normal age of neutering. *Why would you assume any animal not neutered will be bred? Why would responsible pet owners cut out body parts when it will greatly increase the risk of cancers? Why did you ignore the evidence I posted then post recommendations that ignore science? This from someone that took a very old, sick dog and gave it vaccines against the manufacturer's recommendations.... |
#2
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When is the right time to neuter ??
Um....... Many pet owners aren't terrifically responsible enough to
prevent breeding because they have other things on their minds, perhaps? And I meet a tremendous number who don't have a clue what the signs of a bitch coming into heat may be, so they Could prevent breeding. Or one spouse is Very responsible and one isn't...... Or there is a legitimate reason for neutering/spaying. Geeze Char, one of my foster dogs came to me after Months with another rescue group.... about 30 days preggo. The male arrived with the bitch at that other rescue. We "fixed" all three animals we got from them. The other bitch had arrived at the first rescue from the owner.... preggo by that same male. With a large breed male, it's best to wait until at least a year, and 3 years is probably better.... if you want to get technical..... and there are no behavior problems that neutering will help. By 3 yo, the skeleton and ligaments are mature. But all healthy rescues should be neutered/spayed by six months or prior to placement or within 30 days of receipt by a rescuer if not placed sooner. My vet friend often arrives at Friday night dinner with the dog ladies (includes his wife and teen daughter) upset because yet Another owner brought in a bitch near death with pyometra and/or mammary cancer...... and demanded a miracle. Not all of these bitches are "old". Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
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When is the right time to neuter ??
On 5/2/2011 3:02 PM, Jo Wolf wrote:
Um....... Many pet owners aren't terrifically responsible enough to prevent breeding because they have other things on their minds, perhaps? And I meet a tremendous number who don't have a clue what the signs of a bitch coming into heat may be, so they Could prevent breeding. Or one spouse is Very responsible and one isn't...... Or there is a legitimate reason for neutering/spaying. Then they should not have dogs. Isn't that simple? Geeze Char, one of my foster dogs came to me after Months with another rescue group.... about 30 days preggo. The male arrived with the bitch at that other rescue. We "fixed" all three animals we got from them. The other bitch had arrived at the first rescue from the owner.... preggo by that same male. That rescue should be shut down if that is the best they can do. |
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When is the right time to neuter ??
Gee, Char, judgemental much?
Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
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When is the right time to neuter ??
"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote: I think Kundian was looking for something a bit less vague. No earlier than 6 months, preference for 1 year. *Why? What research are you basing that on? Standard web sites of the reputable nature as well as vets. There are reasons for waiting longer such as Jo addresses (larger dogs). Responsible pet owners don't neuter at all Lord Char. Responsible owners neuter. Rare exceptions are those doing reputable breeding with a plan for the pups and folks like that don't ask here for the normal age of neutering. *Why would you assume any animal not neutered will be bred? Why would responsible pet owners cut out body parts when it will greatly increase the risk of cancers? Why did you ignore the evidence I posted then post recommendations that ignore science? Char, rescue dogs are neutered. It's part of the contract to get one. You want to stop the folks who rescue dogs from doing it over your ideas about neutering, feel free but you aren't going to be listened to. This from someone that took a very old, sick dog and gave it vaccines against the manufacturer's recommendations.... Your mantra over a vaccine required by state law gets tiresome as well. Mabel Anne was recovering well from her heartworm treatment but still lethargic which at least partly now we can tell was food allergies to grains. With no proof that she'd ever had any shots at *all* in her life, I opted to protect her at least with the mandated ones (Rabies was done by the rescue and vet accepted it fine so that was not given again). You are the one who thinks her condition was 'against manufacturer recommendations'. In neither my nor my vets estimation, was her condition so that they should be delayed. There was more risk of infection du eto her depleted state at that stage. In fact Char, my vet did all the footwork from a web page to validate what shots she didn't need. They googled the rescue, got contact information, made phone calls and everything, this to prevent her needing another rabies shot too early. 'Aunti' Mabel has since gotten what other shots were deemed wise as based on her age and estimated immunity an older dog may have if never vaccinated, ruling out the few they can tell from the tests we had done. (covered under her plan, initial visit we didnt have that test data back yet but we do now 5 months later of course). They can't tell from tests that she's ever had any shots before she got to the rescue. They are either so long ago, no immunity remains, or she never got them at all. She also showed no sign of ever having dental work and once they actually got in there, it was horrific. She was lucky to only have 4 teeth removed. We still have to have a watch on 2 of them they decided due to her age to try to save, even if we have to have them removed later. Good chance 'Aunti' Mabel was fed the cheapest crappy kibble on the market plus inappropriate table scraps for 14 years before the rescue found her. Had she been fed right and had proper vet care all her life, she'd probably be the pooch still bouncing up stairs at age 25. As it is, she's happy and as healthy as possible in her forever home. We will have to see how long she lasts but there's a radical difference in her plucky determination to enjoy life, and Sammy's just general good health that when the time came suddenly faded in a natural way. I have no clue how long Mabel Anne has. I only care that she is happy, as healthy as I can manage to keep her and that so far she's beating the odds for a dog used as a breeder for 14 years. |
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When is the right time to neuter ??
"Jo Wolf" wrote
Gee, Char, judgemental much? Naw! Say it's not so! (Evil grin). Char and I parted company when she made nastygrams after my 17yo rescue 'Unca' Sammy died. She wanted 'pics' of his dead body or something and retains a claim now and again that I don't and never have had a dog. Umm, yeah. Whatever. I have few pics of Sammy and none that are not 'High definition' with us in them. This due to his solid black coat requiring that camera and I have never posted them because I am a little more sensitive to putting too much information out on the internet than some. Whatever (grin). I think it's pretty funny that anyone can think that considering the volume of posts about my dogs that aren't the sort anyone who doesn't have a dog would ever have. I mean, whistle training advice for a deaf one? Reviews of collar types (non-shock)? Agility sort of training for arthritic dogs? Bicycle training epics and how the devices didn't fit my bike and one that did? Struggling to find local RMB resources for my area? Reviews the the grinder I finally got (includes time it took per lb). Photobucket pics of cats and dogs living in sin (Sammy not in any). Just 'stuff' any dog owner is going to have. Oh I need to post that we've solved that collar issue. No need for the special vibration collar now here. I keep the information from dogman though as it may come up again later with another dog. Mabel, the 'stalker pup' got so much into 'watching us' that it became a non-issue. |
#7
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When is the right time to neuter ??
Last two posts reminding me.....
Susie, my Border Terrier puppy mill dump dog foster who has been here since the day after Labor Day, preggers when we got her.... spayed ASAP. We thought that she was a single-coat.... examined for coat by four of us. It happens. The other night I noticed that she has facial furnishings (rare with single-coats, hadn't been there earlier).... had other concerns and hadn't "registered" them.... so stripped out the 3+ years of thin old dead outer coat and found a lovely new outer coat in place that wasn't there in Sept, either. When I was done, I raked through her coat with a flea comb and lifted out the same amount of dead undercoat as my own guys have at this time of year. I've been feeding high pro, high fat foods.... used some general supplements for the first 3 months. I've talked to some other rescue folks and they have seen similar things with dogs they've gotten that were kept alive and normal weight with crappy food. But the naturally single-coat dogs did not do this. A couple of months ago, we took in another puppy mill dump dog that had horrible, stuffed ears.... which at surgery were found to be stuffed with polyps and Crud.... Got her on no-grain food right away, daily ear cleaning, antibiotics, etc. Had a note and photos from her new mom the other day. Her hearing had steadily improved after surgery.... and is now quite close to normal. She's having a blast going for walks in town, and starting to explore the acreage at home with her mom. Now down to cleaning ears once a week. Took two months to get her ears clean the first time, they were such a mess. She seems fascinated by new sounds. In case she didn't regain hearing, I had placed her with a semi-retired obedience instructor, who was prepared to train a deaf dog. Berry, my mixed breed foster, here since 30 Nov, came with a thin, cottony pale blonde, dull coat.... skin and bones.... on the county roads for an extended period.... nails were an inch long.... has had mats and more mats. I stripped out some of this dead stuff the other day and, and lo and behold, there is a shiney, hard, pale red or strawberry blonde coat under there that will not be a matting problem. So I will strip out that dead stuff, as if stripping a terrier coat, and expect to find a real beauty under there. Won't be as easy to strip as the terriers have been this spring. Much nicer looking coat than if she was clippered. She's still thin, but a good half of her is sighthound, by structure. Good quality high pro, high fat diet, with initial 3 months of additional general supplements. Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
#8
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When is the right time to neuter ??
On 5/4/2011 7:39 PM, cshenk wrote:
Char and I parted company when she made nastygrams after my 17yo rescue 'Unca' Sammy died. She wanted 'pics' of his dead body or something You have a weird imagination. Whatever you want to imagine is up to you but don't make me a part of your delusions. Ugh! Char |
#9
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When is the right time to neuter ??
On 5/4/2011 7:08 PM, cshenk wrote:
"Char" wrote cshenk wrote: I think Kundian was looking for something a bit less vague. No earlier than 6 months, preference for 1 year. *Why? What research are you basing that on? Standard web sites of the reputable nature as well as vets. There are reasons for waiting longer such as Jo addresses (larger dogs). Yet you can't name any specific websites. And there is no such critter as a "standard website". Responsible pet owners don't neuter at all Lord Char. Responsible owners neuter. Rare exceptions are those doing reputable breeding with a plan for the pups and folks like that don't ask here for the normal age of neutering. *Why would you assume any animal not neutered will be bred? Why would responsible pet owners cut out body parts when it will greatly increase the risk of cancers? Why did you ignore the evidence I posted then post recommendations that ignore science? Char, rescue dogs are neutered. It's part of the contract to get one. No it's not true at all. There is no standard contract that everyone follows. Each rescue has their own criteria. I got my Aussie through a rescue and she wasn't spayed. She had a litter before I took her in but that was several years ago. Her best friend is an intact male that has been here just as long (was born in my bathroom actually). When I got his mother she was days away from having a litter. She was rescued from a neighbor. I wish you'd stop posting such silly statements. It makes people think your IQ is about 65. You want to stop the folks who rescue dogs from doing it over your ideas about neutering, feel free but you aren't going to be listened to. This from someone that took a very old, sick dog and gave it vaccines against the manufacturer's recommendations.... Your mantra over a vaccine required by state law gets tiresome as well. Mabel Anne was recovering well from her heartworm treatment but still lethargic which at least partly now we can tell was food allergies to grains. With no proof that she'd ever had any shots at *all* in her life, I opted to protect her at least with the mandated ones (Rabies was done by the rescue and vet accepted it fine so that was not given again). You are the one who thinks her condition was 'against manufacturer recommendations'. No, the manufacturer thinks her condition is a valid reason not to give the vaccine. That's a fact, not a random thought or opinion. Obviously you've never read what the drug companies send with those shots. In neither my nor my vets estimation, was her condition so that they should be delayed. There was more risk of infection du eto her depleted state at that stage. In fact Char, my vet did all the footwork from a web page to validate what shots she didn't need. They googled the rescue, got contact information, made phone calls and everything, this to prevent her needing another rabies shot too early. At her age she would never need any at all. Repeating shots does not boost immunity. It actually tends to make it worse. At her age even if she never had a single shot she would have had to have antibodies in her anyway. 'Aunti' Mabel has since gotten what other shots were deemed wise as based on her age Based on her age she should not be getting any shots at all. There is no point in it. Poor dog! and estimated immunity an older dog may have if never vaccinated, ruling out the few they can tell from the tests we had done. (covered under her plan, initial visit we didnt have that test data back yet but we do now 5 months later of course). They can't tell from tests that she's ever had any shots before she got to the rescue. They are either so long ago, no immunity remains, or she never got them at all. You can't test for immunity. It's not possible. The best you can do is titer tests. Your lack of knowledge is astounding and has been since you started posting here. I highly suggest Googling titers and immunity so you have a small clue. Char |
#10
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When is the right time to neuter ??
On 5/8/2011 5:40 PM, cshenk wrote:
Char wrote in rec.pets.dogs.health: cshenk wrote to Jo Wolf: Char and I parted company when she made nastygrams after my 17yo rescue 'Unca' Sammy died. She wanted 'pics' of his dead body or something You have a weird imagination. Whatever you want to imagine is up to you but don't make me a part of your delusions. Ugh! Shall we google your old messages where even dogman snapped at you over that one? You refused to believe I even had any dogs and demanded pictures. How is that the same as asking for pics of a dead dog? What meds are you on? Maybe you should up the dose. |
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