shih tzus fighting behavior

I have a pack, yes, a pack of shih tzus. 11 to be exact. They all usually
get along fine, but there are times when 2 pairs of the total of 11 just
start tearing into each other. They are all spayed and neutered and there is
nothing that seems to provoke it. They just start fighting. I have my own
war wounds from breaking them up. What is truly baffling about it is there
are only these 4 that fight. The rest of the 11 don't fight. They play and
have a big time. The problem dogs are a pair of females from the same litter
and a pair of males from the same litter. The females are the most
aggressive and vicious. How can I eliminate this behavior from these 4 dogs!
I want to learn something about behaviour modification, here.

In article t,
albert travis wrote:
I want to learn something about behaviour modification, here.

If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have called a
behaviorist immediately when one of my rescue dogs turned
out to be a fighter. If you're not able to identify the
things that set them off you've got a long road ahead of you
to correct the problem, and there's the danger of injury to
one or more of the dogs. Occasionally some situations can't
be fixed and a professional can help you identify those, as
well.

I'd start with some basic work on dog body language,
and while Ian Dunbar's stuff on dealing with dog fighting is
about problems with strange dogs at least it will give you
some guidelines for evaluating how serious the problem is.
But really, if you can't see what's setting them off you're
not in a position to be able to remedy it.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.

Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer, might suggest that the dogs could be
confused, as you should be their pack leader and somehow you are not
conveying that message to your dogs, so they might be trying to figure out
who amongst themselves should be pack leader; you might have two dominant
females and two dominant males. I think the fighting will continue until
you show them that you are the pack leader. I believe female dominant dogs
can be the most aggressive; more so than males. I have read that dominant
females sometimes fight to the death. You could try breaking the fights up
with a spray water bottle that you keep handy and just spray their faces
with it when they fight. Meanwhile, work on being pack leader. That would
be my take on it. If you have ever watched "The Dog Whisperer" TV show on
National Geographic or read Cesar Millan's book called "Cesar's Way", he
explains how this is done. There is another book out called "The Dog
Whisperer", but that is not Cesar Millan's book, although that is the name
of his TV show, so don't be confused by the name on the book if you are
interested in purchasing a copy.


"albert travis" wrote in message
k.net...
I have a pack, yes, a pack of shih tzus. 11 to be exact. They all usually
get along fine, but there are times when 2 pairs of the total of 11 just
start tearing into each other. They are all spayed and neutered and there
is
nothing that seems to provoke it. They just start fighting. I have my own
war wounds from breaking them up. What is truly baffling about it is there
are only these 4 that fight. The rest of the 11 don't fight. They play and
have a big time. The problem dogs are a pair of females from the same
litter
and a pair of males from the same litter. The females are the most
aggressive and vicious. How can I eliminate this behavior from these 4
dogs!
I want to learn something about behaviour modification, here.

In article et,
pfoley wrote:
I think the fighting will continue until
you show them that you are the pack leader.

Do you have any first-hand experience in fixing a problem
with dogs that fight? It seems to me that a situation in
which injury is a highly possible outcome is one in which
you ought to take extra care in providing responsible
advice. As nearly as I can tell from this post and others,
you've never dealt with a serious behavior problem and are
just repeating stuff you read in a book without having tried
it yourself. Worse, you're doing it without knowing why the
dogs are fighting. That's irresponsible in the extreme.

These Millan-ites are just retread Jerry-ites, as nearly as
I can see.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.

You really must hate Cesar Millan; anytime someone mentions his name you
have a big hissyfit and attack them.
Are you supposed to be "The Word"? I am only stating my thoughts; he can
take them or leave them.


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article et,
pfoley wrote:
I think the fighting will continue until
you show them that you are the pack leader.

Do you have any first-hand experience in fixing a problem
with dogs that fight? It seems to me that a situation in
which injury is a highly possible outcome is one in which
you ought to take extra care in providing responsible
advice. As nearly as I can tell from this post and others,
you've never dealt with a serious behavior problem and are
just repeating stuff you read in a book without having tried
it yourself. Worse, you're doing it without knowing why the
dogs are fighting. That's irresponsible in the extreme.

These Millan-ites are just retread Jerry-ites, as nearly as
I can see.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:56:35 GMT, "albert travis"
wrote:

I have a pack, yes, a pack of shih tzus. 11 to be exact. They all usually
get along fine, but there are times when 2 pairs of the total of 11 just
start tearing into each other. They are all spayed and neutered and there is
nothing that seems to provoke it. They just start fighting. I have my own
war wounds from breaking them up. What is truly baffling about it is there
are only these 4 that fight. The rest of the 11 don't fight. They play and
have a big time. The problem dogs are a pair of females from the same litter
and a pair of males from the same litter. The females are the most
aggressive and vicious. How can I eliminate this behavior from these 4 dogs!
I want to learn something about behaviour modification, here.

Your immediate problem stems from this one little item:

The problem dogs are a pair of females from the same litter
and a pair of males from the same litter.

boggle

You really couldn't ask for a much worse scenario. Spayed and neutered
littermates (or even dogs of the same age) can often be the most
aggressive with each other. Which is why, unless you really know what
you're doing, you shouldn't generally entertain the idea of keeping
two or more littermates together, or even dogs of the same sex and
age.

So...why exactly do you have a pack of dogs this large, if you don't
really understand much about pack behavior, leadership, etc?

Look, you have several ways of approaching this. First, MANAGE the
situation, until you can get the help you need. By MANAGEMENT I mean
keep the littermates away from each other. Even if you have to set up
two entirely different packs (one littermate in each pack).

Second. Each and every one of your dogs requires OPBEDIENCE TRAINING.
But you should begin with the littermates, and get to it ASAP.

Proper OBEDIENCE TRAINING will elevate you to the LEADERSHIP position
that you *must* maintain if you're ever going to successfully deal
with a large pack of dogs.

Third. Consider PLACING one of the female and one of the male
littermates into other homes. That shouldn't be a problem, as shih
tzus are very popular dogs and unusually easy to find good homes for.

Until you do one or more of the things I mentioned above, your
situation will only worsen, so I hope that you'll get started with it
ASAP.

'kay?

Good luck!

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

I stand with Israel.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005547.htm

Two books that every American (and Canadian) should read:

1) The Rage and The Pride, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J13521A6D

2) The Force of Reason, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T42552A6D

While they still can.

In article t,
pfoley wrote:
You really must hate Cesar Millan; anytime someone mentions his name you
have a big hissyfit and attack them.

I do have a problem with people who have only one tool in
their bag whipping out that tool (no pun intended) in
response to every problem that comes up. People who only
know one thing know nothing. I also have a problem with
people who have no experience and no expertise with a
potentially devastating problem (letting dog fights escalate
can result in the death of one or more dogs) blithely
handing out advice, particularly advice that can make things
a lot worse.

I think it's swell that you think Cesar is dreamy, but
serious problem need serious responses and not "Cesar
roolz!" posts.

Are you supposed to be "The Word"? I am only stating my thoughts; he can
take them or leave them.

This is a discussion group, and I'm discussing the fact that
you don't have a clue how to deal with dogs that fight. Do
you think your posts are above reproach?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.

You have a lot of problems.

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article t,
pfoley wrote:
You really must hate Cesar Millan; anytime someone mentions his name you
have a big hissyfit and attack them.

I do have a problem with people who have only one tool in
their bag whipping out that tool (no pun intended) in
response to every problem that comes up. People who only
know one thing know nothing. I also have a problem with
people who have no experience and no expertise with a
potentially devastating problem (letting dog fights escalate
can result in the death of one or more dogs) blithely
handing out advice, particularly advice that can make things
a lot worse.

I think it's swell that you think Cesar is dreamy, but
serious problem need serious responses and not "Cesar
roolz!" posts.

Are you supposed to be "The Word"? I am only stating my thoughts; he can
take them or leave them.

This is a discussion group, and I'm discussing the fact that
you don't have a clue how to deal with dogs that fight. Do
you think your posts are above reproach?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.

Keep this kind of talk up - I've printed almost all your posts out for
evidence.

And you think I'm kidding...lol.

You see, Jerry, you have affected my professional life - so you got me
there.

But it's my time to nail you in court. You will have such a fun time
defending your case!

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article t,
pfoley wrote:
You really must hate Cesar Millan; anytime someone mentions his name you
have a big hissyfit and attack them.

I do have a problem with people who have only one tool in
their bag whipping out that tool (no pun intended) in
response to every problem that comes up. People who only
know one thing know nothing. I also have a problem with
people who have no experience and no expertise with a
potentially devastating problem (letting dog fights escalate
can result in the death of one or more dogs) blithely
handing out advice, particularly advice that can make things
a lot worse.

I have a problem with people thinking they are some sort of "God" when
it comes to software engineering.

What do you program in? Perl? Java? Visual Basic? SQL stored
procedures?

Do you know C? C++? C#? Even better can you list out the Intel
registers and what they are used for? Hell - even better - can you
describe the RISC architecture of say a Power Mac? Do you even know
what ECX is used for? If you wanted to copy memory in assembly, what
would you use? REP MOVSB? REP MOVSW? Yes - that's an answer. But
how do you load the registers? Do you use EDI, ESI, EBP, ESP for this
task? What is vector 3h for? Vector 5h? Vector 21h? Vector 13h?
How many times does INT 8h or INT 1Ch trigger per second? What's the
difference between INT 8h and INT 1Ch? Can you describe the memory
scheme used for EGA cards? VGA? Super VGA? What ports are used for
serial? Parallel? USB? Why is it that a CLI can be deadly when not
used correctly? And what is the counter to CLI? Do you know what
floating point instructions like FIST mean? Let's add in - what is INT
9h and INT 16h used for and what is the difference?

Melinda, you simply come across as a "know-it-all" and I don't believe
that you do "know it all".