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joint pain



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 5th 12, 07:53 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Phil L
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default joint pain

border collie 7 years old.
she's a very active dog who likes to excercise all the time, that is to say,
she's never still, she's always running.
Recently I've noticed she's carrying one or other of her hind legs after a
vigourous work out, although she doesn't sit or lie down even after
strenuous excercise, she's started sort of shifting weight from one to
another like humans do - resting one at a time.

would fish oils like codliver oil, salmon oil etc do her any good? - I used
to give her fish regularly but we are suffering a recession and everything
is overpriced now.

Also no lectures on diet, etc, I've been around here long enough to know
everyone's views on all sides of numerous fences, I just want to know if
anyone has had any luck with supplements or any other joint related
remedies, I myself take glucosamine sulphate, which I resorted to after
umpteen visits to the doctor who prescribed a variety of things that didn't
wotk, thus I am reluctant to visit the vet, get charged £500 over the next
month and be left with a dog with joint discomfort.
The glucosamine sulphate works perfectly and has no side effects given that
it's made from shellfish, but are dogs tolerant of it?


  #2  
Old June 6th 12, 01:09 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
sighthounds & siberians
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,538
Default joint pain

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 19:53:06 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:

border collie 7 years old.
she's a very active dog who likes to excercise all the time, that is to say,
she's never still, she's always running.
Recently I've noticed she's carrying one or other of her hind legs after a
vigourous work out, although she doesn't sit or lie down even after
strenuous excercise, she's started sort of shifting weight from one to
another like humans do - resting one at a time.

would fish oils like codliver oil, salmon oil etc do her any good? - I used
to give her fish regularly but we are suffering a recession and everything
is overpriced now.

Also no lectures on diet, etc, I've been around here long enough to know
everyone's views on all sides of numerous fences, I just want to know if
anyone has had any luck with supplements or any other joint related
remedies, I myself take glucosamine sulphate, which I resorted to after
umpteen visits to the doctor who prescribed a variety of things that didn't
wotk, thus I am reluctant to visit the vet, get charged £500 over the next
month and be left with a dog with joint discomfort.
The glucosamine sulphate works perfectly and has no side effects given that
it's made from shellfish, but are dogs tolerant of it?


Fish oil is good for dogs and yes, you can give your dog human
glucosamine/chondroitin supplements. It's actually cheaper to do that
- the 'special' formulations for dogs are the same thing but for much
more $$.


  #3  
Old June 6th 12, 05:32 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Jo Wolf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 479
Default joint pain

Yeh, I have used glucosamine for my dogs for many years now.... about 21
1/2, actually. The products Do require that "starter" dose that's
twice the maintenance dose for about 6 weeks. Your BC's maintenance
dose would be about 500mg/day. I have seen results starting as soon as
3-ish weeks, but did continue the starter dose for the full 6 weeks. DO
continue the fatty acid supplements; they help.

The reason for that starter dose period is that the glucopolysaccharides
change the chemistry of the fluid in the joint capsule to make it
thicker, higher volume, and slipperier, plus reduce inflammation.... so
you have to give it that boost to replace the existing joint fluid, then
maintain it. It's not like a pain pill that works within a half
hour..... So even if for some wild reason, you miss a dose, it's not
going to cause your dog pain.... as long as it's restarted Promptly. If
you have to stop it for a week or more, start back with the starter dose
for 2-4 weeks. (Experience with a bilaterally dysplastic dog....)

I have Border Terriers, so the pills are usually a bit too large, and I
just cut them in half and drop them on top of the food....

A hint from German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) breeders.... They start the
pups on glucosamine at about 4-5 months to prevent or delay arthritis
that comes from hip dysplasia.... I now start my small guys on it at
about 3 years of age. They aren't as terrifically active (nor are they
dysplastic) as "the other Border", but they are staying active and
seemingly more comfortable to an older age. (Watched my 15 yo BT
playing a chase game with the 4 yo BT this afternoon.)

A word of advice.... If you don't see good results in 6 weeks, time for
a vet check. It might be soft tissue injuries.... and rest (reletive)
is good for those. As can be acupuncture plus mild activity.

My vet says that if my old guy is having a bad day with discomfort to
give him a dose of (pain med of our agreement) on that day.... not every
day unless really needed. So far, I haven't needed to do that.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

  #4  
Old July 19th 12, 09:17 AM
Askew Askew is offline
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First recorded activity by DogBanter: Jul 2012
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sighthounds & siberians View Post
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 19:53:06 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:

border collie 7 years old.
she's a very active dog who likes to excercise all the time, that is to say,
she's never still, she's always running.
Recently I've noticed she's carrying one or other of her hind legs after a
vigourous work out, although she doesn't sit or lie down even after
strenuous excercise, she's started sort of shifting weight from one to
another like humans do - resting one at a time.

would fish oils like codliver oil, salmon oil etc do her any good? - I used
to give her fish regularly but we are suffering a recession and everything
is overpriced now.

Also no lectures on diet, etc, I've been around here long enough to know
everyone's views on all sides of numerous fences, I just want to know if
anyone has had any luck with supplements or any other joint related
remedies, I myself take glucosamine sulphate, which I resorted to after
umpteen visits to the doctor who prescribed a variety of things that didn't
wotk, thus I am reluctant to visit the vet, get charged £500 over the next
month and be left with a dog with joint discomfort.
The glucosamine sulphate works perfectly and has no side effects given that
it's made from shellfish, but are dogs tolerant of it?


Fish oil is good for dogs and yes, you can give your dog human
glucosamine/chondroitin supplements. It's actually cheaper to do that
- the 'special' formulations for dogs are the same thing but for much
more $$.
Ok thats fine, but tell me that in what form the olive oil is given to the dogs.
Is there some capsules or injection or in raw?
If raw is given, then how?
My pommy is shedding and feeling dandruff on body. Is olive a choice?
  #5  
Old July 19th 12, 04:08 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
sighthounds & siberians
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,538
Default ill dog!

On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:03:17 +0000, Askew
wrote:


Sorry if posting in a wrong section. Actually, one of my siberian husky
is
not feeling well. I'm sure he got a tumour on rare left leg and feeling

irritation. Because pain, he got angry and frustrated. I'm worried about
it.
What are suggestion!
Is any trusty vet here?


No one can diagnose your dog over the internet. Take your dog to the
vet if he's in pain.

  #6  
Old June 7th 12, 12:34 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default joint pain

On 6/5/2012 2:53 PM, Phil L wrote:

would fish oils like codliver oil, salmon oil etc do her any good?


.................Salmon or other EFAs but not cod liver oil, which has
Vits A & D. One capsule of at least 180 EPA and 120 DHA content per
10-20 pounds body weight.


The glucosamine sulphate works perfectly and has no side effects given that
it's made from shellfish, but are dogs tolerant of it?


...........any dog may have a reaction to anything. Use your caps to
try. From Mary Straus – www.dogaware.com:

When giving glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis, start out at high
doses:
at least 500 mg glucosamine plus 400 mg chondroitin daily for a small
dog (up to 25 lbs),
1000/800 mg for a medium-sized dog (25 to 50 lbs), 1500/1200 mg for a
large dog
(50 to 100 lbs), and 2000/1600 mg for dogs over 100 lbs. If you see
improvement,
you can try backing off to a smaller dosage. Some dogs do well on less, some
need the higher amount to get relief. If you don't see any improvement
in four
weeks, try a different brand. Different dogs seem to respond better to
different
brands. Glucosamine/chondroitin can be given with food.
There are many arguments about which form of Glucosamine is best.
I have yet to see anything I find convincing, as most of the arguments
are made
by commercial companies in support of their own products. However, if
giving Glucosamine HCl, it should always be combined with Chondroitin
Sulfate for better uptake, whereas Glucosamine Sulfate can be given alone.
It is best if supplements also include Manganese, which can help
increase absorption.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #7  
Old June 9th 12, 07:50 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Phil L
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default joint pain

Phil L wrote:
border collie 7 years old.


Thanks for the info all.

I have started her on 500mg daily of glucosamine sulphate (sulfate) which
were mine.
I'll not bother with any fish oils just yet, but will try to incorporate
some sardines or pilchards a couple of times a week into her diet.
She only showed slight signs of discomfort for a day and half but I thought
I noticed it last time she was out with the ball. She's only had lighter
excersise since then and I'll leave the more vigourous activities out for a
fortnight and see if the glucosamine has kicked in.
She's like a stick insect, about 11kg, (24lbs) but has a good appetite and
eats quite a lot so getting the tablets down is no problem


  #8  
Old June 9th 12, 09:26 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default joint pain

Phil L wrote in rec.pets.dogs.health:

Phil L wrote:
border collie 7 years old.


Thanks for the info all.

I have started her on 500mg daily of glucosamine sulphate (sulfate)
which were mine. I'll not bother with any fish oils just yet, but
will try to incorporate some sardines or pilchards a couple of times
a week into her diet. She only showed slight signs of discomfort for
a day and half but I thought I noticed it last time she was out with
the ball. She's only had lighter excersise since then and I'll leave
the more vigourous activities out for a fortnight and see if the
glucosamine has kicked in. She's like a stick insect, about 11kg,
(24lbs) but has a good appetite and eats quite a lot so getting the
tablets down is no problem


Good plan but might want to check the dosage there though? Aunti Mabel
dosage is 400 MG a day per the Vet (she's 26 lbs). Granted she's well
past the initial 'use a bit more' stage and Jo did list 500MG. Thats
only a 'cost factor' issue BTW because within reason, more isn't really
a problem here. I gather they just pee it off (grin) if there's more
than they can absorb.

Carol

--

  #9  
Old June 9th 12, 09:17 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,078
Default joint pain

Phil L wrote in rec.pets.dogs.health:

border collie 7 years old.
she's a very active dog who likes to excercise all the time, that is
to say, she's never still, she's always running. Recently I've
noticed she's carrying one or other of her hind legs after a
vigourous work out, although she doesn't sit or lie down even after
strenuous excercise, she's started sort of shifting weight from one
to another like humans do - resting one at a time.

would fish oils like codliver oil, salmon oil etc do her any good? -
I used to give her fish regularly but we are suffering a recession
and everything is overpriced now.


I know the feeling. The fish oil is a good idea but be sure to check
the vitimin D level of whatever you use. A little is ok but too much
is toxic (to both pets and people BTW). Fish liver oil is not one of
the recommended ones.

Also no lectures on diet, etc, I've been around here long enough to
know everyone's views on all sides of numerous fences, I just want to
know if anyone has had any luck with supplements or any other joint
related remedies, I myself take glucosamine sulphate, which I
resorted to after umpteen visits to the doctor who prescribed a
variety of things that didn't wotk, thus I am reluctant to visit the
vet, get charged #500 over the next month and be left with a dog with
joint discomfort. The glucosamine sulphate works perfectly and has
no side effects given that it's made from shellfish, but are dogs
tolerant of it?


Smile, no problem. Yes, you can use the human stuff. You will
probably find the powder versions a little easier to adjust does with.
If she starts itching, overlicking (especially toes) or starts an ear
infection (yeast normally) then she probably has a shellfish allergy.
They sell other versions if so because that's common for people too.

You asked for specifics from those of us with similar issues with our
pets. I haven't been online in a bit but I'm the one who adopts
medical issue dogs, primarily heartworm and arthritis.

Cash, heartworm serious issues. EST age 6 now? Spinal issues, organ
damage, arthritis. We started with GSM but it was having no effect. I
took him to bone broth (home made from poultry carcasses after we eat
the bird mostly but sometimes he gets bone marrow broth from oxtail
etc). Also shrimp shells and heads etc. He also gets a raw 3/4 cut
marrow bone twice a week. Arthritis in complete remission per the Vet.
The Vet had me keep him on the GSM as I started the other method then
as he was obviously getting better, had me test dropping the
suppliments with a careful eye on him. No issues. Turns out he just
doesnt absorb it right from the suppliments we were trying. I have the
same issue and have to make the broth etc stuff for my own joint health
so we share.

Uncle Sammy (RB), EST age 17 or 18. Arthritis, maintained same
suppliment his previous owner had him on plus tramadol. Got the same
added things Cash does because we feed the dogs all the same other than
amount adjusted for size of dog. He seemed to gain benefit from the
added items but obviously the powder he was on worked well for him too
so it was maintained. Shellfish based product.

Aunti Mabel, youngest Vet age estimate now is 15 (we call Thanksgiving
her birthday so 16 before long). Heartworm but no apparent lingering
systemic damage, arthritis. Same as Cash, she gets the bone broth and
shrimp shells/heads but her jaw and teeth can't handle the raw marrow
bone. We tried the shellfish based one but something in it didn't
agree with her (though shrimp shells are fine). We swapped to one with
no shellfish and the combination effect of the 2 have her hopping about
almost like a puppy now.

Carol

--

  #10  
Old June 12th 12, 09:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Phil L
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default joint pain

cshenk wrote:
snip


Aunti Mabel, youngest Vet age estimate now is 15 (we call Thanksgiving
her birthday so 16 before long). Heartworm but no apparent lingering
systemic damage, arthritis. Same as Cash, she gets the bone broth and
shrimp shells/heads but her jaw and teeth can't handle the raw marrow
bone. We tried the shellfish based one but something in it didn't
agree with her (though shrimp shells are fine). We swapped to one
with no shellfish and the combination effect of the 2 have her
hopping about almost like a puppy now.



Thanks for the info, I might make some large batches (to freeze off in
portions) of bone broth because my dog never bothers with bones, she's a TV
dog, in that if it's on, she's in front of it running around in circles,
this is why she never sits or lies down, and rarely even bothers with food
or bones until it's switched off.

Sorry to hear about your dogs with heartworm, thankfully we don't have this
horrid parasite in the UK.

I'll cointinue with the 500mg a day of the tablets while I already have them
in - she's been on them 6 days now and no side effects as yet, then, if they
do give her any benefit, I'll buy the powdered version and adjust her intake
accordingly, although the tablets are easy to split into halves or quarters
if they work out (much) more cost effective.

I realise I might sound like a skinflint here and in other posts, but we
live in Britain, where everyone is out to rip off everyone else, for
instance, a quick check online throws up 'glucosamine sulphate for cats and
dogs' from one supplier at £16 (about us$25) for 60 X 500mg, yet I can buy
the human version for £2 ($3) for 90 X 500mg.
It's the same with vet's prescriptions - they charge £40 - £50 just to see
them, then any scripts are charged for even if you take them home to get the
drugs online, and if you don't, the vet charges double what you would pay
online, often a simple course of anti-biotics which have a value of less
than a £1 can end up costing 70 or 80 times that if you go through the vet


 




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