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Iams & Eukanuba, good foods? any opinions?



 
 
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  #342  
Old May 25th 05, 03:37 AM
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First recorded activity by DogBanter: May 2005
Location: Northern Michigan/Central Florida
Posts: 6
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This is a list of acceptable dog foods from another forum it was compiled by a canine nutritionist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by
What is the consensus here about Iams and Eurkanuba? I remember several
years ago they were considered the best foods out there. I was looking
at Eukanuba Lamb and Rice and it says it uses New Zealand Lamb which is
free range, hormone and antibiotic free. That sounds pretty good but I
don't know.

Hope it helps you



(1) PUPPIES - Blue Buffalo, Chicken Soup, Drs. Foster and Smith,
Healthwise, Royal Canin Natural Health Puppy, Avoderm, Solid Gold Wolfcub
(large breeds), Solid Gold Hundchen Flocken
(2) ADULT MAINTENANCE - Eagle Pack Holistic, Wellness Super5, Solid Gold
Mmillennia Beef & Barley, Solid Gold Wolfking (Large breed), Innova, AvoDerm Specialty Oven Baked, Natural Balance Ultra, Canidae, Life's Abundance
(3) PERFORMANCE DOGS - Natural Balance Ultra, Canidae, Innova, Caribou
Creek Gold
(4) GERIATRIC DOGS - Wellness Super5 Senior, Avoderm Senior, Canidae
Platinum
(5) ALLERGIC DOGS - Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato, California Natural,
Natural Balance Venison & Brown Rice, Natural Balance Vegetarian, Pinnacle
Trout and Sweet Potato (BUT it really depends on what the dog is allergic to!!)
(6) DOGS WITH SENSITIVE STOMACHS Spectrum Organic, California Natural
(This is a difficult category to recommend for because it really depends on
what type of condition is causing the sensitive stomach. Most chicken and
rice foods would work for this category because they are easily digestible but not if the dog can't tolerate chicken and rice.)

If you need an OK food at an affordable price, Nutro's Natural Choice is about as good as you're going to get for the price. They also have a new formula out called Ultra, but it's really expensive and the ingredients are better than their other formulas, but it's well over $1.00 a pound and I just don't know if it's worth that kind of money.

Wysong Anergen, Synorgon and Archetype are also better than average foods. Their Tundra Turkey is a raw frozen diet that has outstanding ingredients. They are also some of the most expensive foods on the market and only available through distributors.

Steve's Real Food for dogs and cats is also exceptional. He has a variety of
products including frozen and freeze dried forms, and all are the best
available. Also only available through distributors.

Breeder's Choice also has a product called Perfect Servings frozen chicken
and beef dinners that are frozen raw diets.

I'm sure there would be additions and subtractions down the road and the important thing to remember is just because one formula is good by a particular company does not mean ALL of their formulas are good. I was also trying to go with formulas that I suspect are in the area Renee is in.

I don't fall into the belief that large breeds and small breeds necessarily need separate formulas. Separate size foods sure, but not necessarily formulas. I also don't push the large breed puppy foods for dogs like Goldens. In my opinion, you really don't need a large breed puppy unless you're talking over 90 pounds, not the 65 pounds they say on the bag.

It is also important to remember that all dogs are individuals and what is the best thing in the world for one will be a disaster for others. Nutrition is such a difficult topic because of all the misinformation and marketing that happens in a multi-million dollar business. It's also difficult to keep up on the latest findings and on how much we truly don't know about our own nutrition, let alone another species'.
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  #343  
Old May 25th 05, 12:39 PM
buglady
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"Steve Crane" wrote in message
ups.com...
.. Perdue maintains a
databse of animal presented to 23 veterinary school aroudn the country
and the age upon death can be gleaned from that, but the data only goes
back about fifteen years, not long enough I think.


........really? The chicken king worries about longevity in dogs?

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #344  
Old May 25th 05, 04:28 PM
Steve Crane
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shelly wrote:
on 2005-05-24 at 09:24 wrote:
i suspect it's more that preventative medicine has become more
important. growing up, we didn't take pets to the vet,
period. later, we'd take them for vaccines and for emergency
care, but preventative care, health testing, and longevity
weren't addressed.


Agreed - I believe there are three major changes, overall veterinary
care is substantially different than it was even 20 years ago. An
excellent example is veterinary dentistry. In the entire Pacific
Northwest there was only one guy doing real veterinary dentistry in the
mid 80's. I spent a couple days there back in the 80's learning how to
do root canals in dogs. Today - there are very few veterinary clinics
that are not doing a lot of dentistry. Vaccines have radically changed
the reasons pets died since the 1950's. We don't see distemper anymore
in this country. If you wander around many third world countries you
find it everywhere. Lastly the value we place on pets has radically
changed since the 50's. They are now part of the family and given far
better care than they ever received before. Couple those things with
much better nutrition today than what was generally produced in the
1950's and the results are a population of dogs and cats living longer
than they did in the 50's.



Every major veterinary group around the world has commented
on the extended aging of cats and dogs.


i don't doubt it. however, i'd personally like to see some
sort of evidence.


So would I, very much so. Unfortunately there just isn't any reliable
data that we can draw from. AKC's records don't include age at death,
nor any way to extract that, even if they could find them. Been there
tried that, didn't get a T-shirt.


not nearly long enough. maybe it's one of those things that
can never be proved one way or the other. if that's the case,
i really wish people would stop stating it as fact when it's
actually nothing more than an assumption.


I do think this is a very safe assumption. You will hardly find a
veterinarian anywhere who will not readily agree that dogs and cats are
living far longer than they did previously. If you talk to vets who
have been in practice over 20 years, the answer will overwhelmingly be
yes. Again, that is of course, only anecdotal evidence, but that
appears to be all we have to work with.

  #345  
Old May 25th 05, 04:33 PM
Steve Crane
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buglady wrote:
"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article , Rene

wrote:
I can tell you how many calories each consumes per day, how
much protein, how much fat, how much of various nutrients
and micronutrients, and so on.


............no you can't. Go read that bag again. The guaranteed analysis
is for minimums. At no point can a commercial pet food company tell you
what the _exact_ levels of nutrients are.



Oh nonsense, regarding the vast majority of nutrients any company can
provide that data - and to a degree far beyond any meaningful
difference. The more important question is why some companies refuse to
provide that data to consumers.

  #346  
Old May 25th 05, 05:39 PM
Steve Crane
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Debbie S wrote:
I _can say, after playing on the USDA nutrient database site, that it
appears all vitamin C is removed by cooking, as is Lycopene. Many other
vitamins are reduced, some a little, some a lot. I didn't check every
single vit/mineral, and I only checked one food, beef heart. It would
be an exercise in futility to check the USDA site for items commonly fed
with bone, since none of their calculations take into consideration the
consumption of bone. That's going to throw off protein levels, mineral
levels, vitamin levels, and fat levels.


Lots of nutrients are affected by processing, nothing new there. The
rate of decline of any nutrient has been graphed since the 50's on a
scale of time and temperature.

Vitamin C is a good example. Everybody knows exactly how much will be
lost if you cook a food at X temperature over X time. It's not rocket
science. In the end it really makes no difference at all. Any nutrient
reported by a manufacturer must be the level of that given nutrient
AFTER the manufacturing process is complete, not before. Thus if the
food claims it has 100 mgs/kg of vitamin C - that's what's in the bag
AFTER the manufacturing process is completed. What is lost to coooking
is not relevant. What may be lost if you leave the bag in trunk of
your car for a week in Phoenix Arizona in the summer is another matter.

  #347  
Old May 25th 05, 07:19 PM
Marcel Beaudoin
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Rocky wrote in
:

Marcel Beaudoin said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

I know there are people on here who
feed raw (Melanie and Matt do, I think, as well as some
others) and I know it is not an easy thing to do.


Raw is certainly not an easy thing to do properly, which is why
I currently don't feed raw right now: I'm lazy, and like to buy
prepared raw foods. Because I've found prepared raw
formulations wanting in many of the same ways that some kibble
is inappropriate for my dogs, I've settled on, for both dogs,
the kibble that I believe has been a life saver for Rocky.


My bad. I apologize for bringing you into this thread...

--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
  #348  
Old May 25th 05, 07:54 PM
Rocky
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Marcel Beaudoin said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

My bad. I apologize for bringing you into this thread...


Drive by response.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #349  
Old May 26th 05, 12:55 PM
buglady
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"Steve Crane" wrote in message
oups.com...
Oh nonsense, regarding the vast majority of nutrients any company can
provide that data - and to a degree far beyond any meaningful
difference. The more important question is why some companies refuse to
provide that data to consumers.


..........I really doubt that's true Steve, if you're saying you can provide
the exact level of nutrients for each bag of SD.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #350  
Old May 27th 05, 05:13 PM
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Furry wrote:

Diets for large breed dogs
(who are most at risk for HD) and new Prescription Diet Canine j/d
(clinically proven to reduce pain in dogs suffering from
osteoarthritis.


Please provide the reference for these studies.


Sorry for the delay, but I've been out of town for a few days. But
here are some references that you asked for:

Caterson, B. Cartilage Physiology: Unique Aspects of Canine
Cartilage. In: Proceedings. Symposium on Nutritional Management of
Chronic Canine Osteoarthritis. North American Veterinary Conference,
Orlando, FL. January 7, 2005

Johnston SA. Osteoarthritis: Joint anatomy, physiology and
pathobiology. "Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract" 1997 Jul; 27:
699-723

Omega-3 Fatty Acids in Canine Osteoarthritis: A Randomized,
Double-Masked, Practice Based Study, 6-month feeding study, 2003

University Arthritis Study: Effects of Feeding Omega-3 Fatty Acids on
Force Plate Gait Analysis in Dogs with Osteoarthritis, 3-month feeding
study, 2003

A Multi-center Practice Based Study of a Therapeutic Food and Drugs in
Dogs with Osteoarthritis; 3-month feeding study, 2004



For you or anyone else to completely leave out nutrition as a factor in
the longer and better quality lives that dogs are living is to
completely miss (usually on purpose) the point.


You you completely left out medical advances in your ascertation that
kibble is now causing dogs to live longer.

Furry



There are a mulititude of factors, really. Better nutrition cannot be
discounted.

 




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