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For those of you who think vaccines actually work



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 26th 11, 05:52 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Char
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Posts: 771
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work

I posted a couple examples of what is there.


http://www.whale.to/a/graphs.html

*Declining Death Rates (US)* reveals that in the United States--without
benefit of any vaccine--the tuberculosis mortality rate underwent a drop
of roughly 96 percent in the first 60 years of this century; and that in
a little short of the same time span (although the effectiveness of the
vaccine has been seriously questioned by reputed scientists) mortality
from typhoid vanished.^6

*Acute Rheumatic Fever Death Rates (Britain)* indicates that in Britain,
the annual death rate from rheumatic fever underwent a decline
approximating 86 percent in the period covering 1850 to 1946, before
penicillin had become available.^63




  #2  
Old July 27th 11, 01:01 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
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Posts: 1,078
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work

Char wrote in rec.pets.dogs.health:

I posted a couple examples of what is there.


http://www.whale.to/a/graphs.html

*Declining Death Rates (US)* reveals that in the United
States--without benefit of any vaccine--the tuberculosis mortality
rate underwent a drop of roughly 96 percent in the first 60 years of
this century; and that in a little short of the same time span
(although the effectiveness of the vaccine has been seriously
questioned by reputed scientists) mortality from typhoid vanished.^6

*Acute Rheumatic Fever Death Rates (Britain)* indicates that in
Britain, the annual death rate from rheumatic fever underwent a
decline approximating 86 percent in the period covering 1850 to 1946,
before penicillin had become available.^63


Laugh! The TB rate went down when they started testing cows for it and
removing them from the market and pasturizing milk.

There isnt a TB 'vaccine'. There is a series of antibiotics if unlucky
like me, you have to take for 6 months. It is called INH. Your
paragraph mixes TB and Typhoid and they are not at all related other
than both being infectious.

Rheumatic fever deaths just like many others got less common as food
became more available. A healthy person is less at risk.

Did you know today Scarlet fever is cured in a week? Thats why the
death ratio is very low now. Charlotte had it when she was 5. Freaked
me out but she was allowed back in school in 3 days (we kept her out a
week because we worried she'd get a flu while recovering).

Your post leads to a web site that doesnt use all the data on why it
changed. It didn't change without a cause and they didn't tell you the
change so you assume there was none. Wrong again ranger.


--

  #3  
Old July 27th 11, 04:01 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Jo Wolf
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Posts: 479
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work

Also, beginning early in the 20th century, legally driven quarantine
came into general use, lthough is began somewhat earlier. If you have
TB, you went to a TB hospital until you recovered or died. If you had
scarlet fever, mumps, measels, etc., you were quarantined at home.... no
visitors, mom locked up with the sick kids. Polio cases were
hospitalized, and children's summer faves like pools and beaches and
baseball (little league, once it was orgaized) shut down as soon as the
first cases of the season were seen. We had a TB hospital in the town
where I grew up, and I well remember the quarantine signs on doors....
for some years after WWII. This seperated the infectious from the
uninfected and prevented many cases. Chicken pox was not a
quarantineable disease. Try that now and you get screams from the
goodie two-shoes types about preventing exercise of freedoms.

Scarlet fever and rheumatic fever both started out with strep
throat..... in the cast majority of cases.

Stressing of handwashing, use of disposable facial tissues in place of
re-usable handkerchiefs all day before replacement, and good old Lysol
also assisted...... safe water, sewage systems also helped. And so did
the automobile, when it came to fecal contamination of the environment
by horses, and by the swarms of flies. Mosquito control reduced the
frequency of many diseases.

You see, Char, you Flat. Don't. Know. Much. about infectious diseases.

Jo Wolf

  #4  
Old July 27th 11, 11:52 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
cshenk
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Posts: 1,078
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work

Jo Wolf wrote in rec.pets.dogs.health:

Also, beginning early in the 20th century, legally driven quarantine
came into general use, lthough is began somewhat earlier. If you have
TB, you went to a TB hospital until you recovered or died. If you had
scarlet fever, mumps, measels, etc., you were quarantined at home....
no visitors, mom locked up with the sick kids. Polio cases were
hospitalized, and children's summer faves like pools and beaches and
baseball (little league, once it was orgaized) shut down as soon as
the first cases of the season were seen. We had a TB hospital in the
town where I grew up, and I well remember the quarantine signs on
doors.... for some years after WWII. This seperated the infectious
from the uninfected and prevented many cases. Chicken pox was not a
quarantineable disease. Try that now and you get screams from the
goodie two-shoes types about preventing exercise of freedoms.

Scarlet fever and rheumatic fever both started out with strep
throat..... in the cast majority of cases.

Stressing of handwashing, use of disposable facial tissues in place of
re-usable handkerchiefs all day before replacement, and good old Lysol
also assisted...... safe water, sewage systems also helped. And so
did the automobile, when it came to fecal contamination of the
environment by horses, and by the swarms of flies. Mosquito control
reduced the frequency of many diseases.

You see, Char, you Flat. Don't. Know. Much. about infectious
diseases.


Correct. Huge number of changes happened even before antibiotics were
used or common. Food quality went up in how much the average person
could obtain and a healthy person is less prone to get sick. People
got taller too. Radical shift is in Japan in modern times.


--

  #5  
Old July 31st 11, 12:17 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Char
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Posts: 771
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work

On 7/27/2011 6:52 PM, cshenk wrote:
Jo Wolf wrote in rec.pets.dogs.health:

Also, beginning early in the 20th century, legally driven quarantine
came into general use, lthough is began somewhat earlier. If you have
TB, you went to a TB hospital until you recovered or died. If you had
scarlet fever, mumps, measels, etc., you were quarantined at home....
no visitors, mom locked up with the sick kids. Polio cases were
hospitalized, and children's summer faves like pools and beaches and
baseball (little league, once it was orgaized) shut down as soon as
the first cases of the season were seen. We had a TB hospital in the
town where I grew up, and I well remember the quarantine signs on
doors.... for some years after WWII. This seperated the infectious
from the uninfected and prevented many cases. Chicken pox was not a
quarantineable disease. Try that now and you get screams from the
goodie two-shoes types about preventing exercise of freedoms.

Scarlet fever and rheumatic fever both started out with strep
throat..... in the cast majority of cases.

Stressing of handwashing, use of disposable facial tissues in place of
re-usable handkerchiefs all day before replacement, and good old Lysol
also assisted...... safe water, sewage systems also helped. And so
did the automobile, when it came to fecal contamination of the
environment by horses, and by the swarms of flies. Mosquito control
reduced the frequency of many diseases.

You see, Char, you Flat. Don't. Know. Much. about infectious
diseases.

Correct. Huge number of changes happened even before antibiotics were
used or common. Food quality went up in how much the average person
could obtain and a healthy person is less prone to get sick. People
got taller too. Radical shift is in Japan in modern times.


And none of that has absolutely anything to do with vaccines, which
proves my point.
  #6  
Old July 31st 11, 05:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Ringer
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Posts: 5
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work


"Char" wrote in message
m...
On 7/27/2011 6:52 PM, cshenk wrote:
Jo Wolf wrote in rec.pets.dogs.health:

Also, beginning early in the 20th century, legally driven quarantine
came into general use, lthough is began somewhat earlier. If you have
TB, you went to a TB hospital until you recovered or died. If you had
scarlet fever, mumps, measels, etc., you were quarantined at home....
no visitors, mom locked up with the sick kids. Polio cases were
hospitalized, and children's summer faves like pools and beaches and
baseball (little league, once it was orgaized) shut down as soon as
the first cases of the season were seen. We had a TB hospital in the
town where I grew up, and I well remember the quarantine signs on
doors.... for some years after WWII. This seperated the infectious
from the uninfected and prevented many cases. Chicken pox was not a
quarantineable disease. Try that now and you get screams from the
goodie two-shoes types about preventing exercise of freedoms.

Scarlet fever and rheumatic fever both started out with strep
throat..... in the cast majority of cases.

Stressing of handwashing, use of disposable facial tissues in place of
re-usable handkerchiefs all day before replacement, and good old Lysol
also assisted...... safe water, sewage systems also helped. And so
did the automobile, when it came to fecal contamination of the
environment by horses, and by the swarms of flies. Mosquito control
reduced the frequency of many diseases.

You see, Char, you Flat. Don't. Know. Much. about infectious
diseases.

Correct. Huge number of changes happened even before antibiotics were
used or common. Food quality went up in how much the average person
could obtain and a healthy person is less prone to get sick. People
got taller too. Radical shift is in Japan in modern times.


And none of that has absolutely anything to do with vaccines, which proves
my point.


Sorry, polio, smallpox and rabies were wiped out or diminished by vaccines
without any of the other stuff changing. That says it all.


  #7  
Old July 31st 11, 09:28 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Jo Wolf
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Posts: 479
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work

But Char likes to say that her pet communicable diseases were on the
decrease prior to development of vaccines. Some were. Due to
environental changes (paved streets, replacement of horses as the
primary transport) and the public health movement, in which the science
of epidemiology played a strong role.... even as that science was still
developing, indeed, just beginning.

I live in the swampy Southeast, in one of the oldest cities in Georgia.
We no longer have typhus, typhoid fever, or malaria.... because of
public health efforts.... that don't really include vaccines. All
existed earlier in the metro area's history.

A cousin of mine had tetanus in the early 1940s, because he was too
young to be vaccinated. He recovered with no sequelae. Today, on an
emerging infectious diseases group, I read of three cases of tetanus in
Michigan.... all due to failure to vaccinate or failure to boost in
adulthood.... viewed as a major outbreak. Tetanus is a bacterial
disease, not a viral disease, so initial vaccination does not yield
permanent immnity.

In the early 1960s a public health nurse in Wayne County Michigan
(Detroit's county) commented to me on a case of diphtheria the previous
year..... that the doctors, who'd never seen a case, missed the
diagnosis on until the child required a tracheotomy. A few years later,
when I was stationed in San Antonio, TX, there was a real outbreak of
diphtheria in the region.... with a few deaths. A mass
vaccination/adult booster program brought it to a screeching halt.
Diphtheria is a bacterial disease, not a viral disease, so initial
vaccination does not yield permanent immunity.

Whooping cough, which has been a problem in California for the past
year, is also a bacterial disease that requires adult boosting.

On that same emerging infectious disease list just yesterday, a case of
rabies in India was discussed. The young child had a dog bite on the
face, and was promptly taken to the hospital, where he was refused the
prophyllactic post-exposure vaccine. He was taken to another hosital
where he got the appropriate dose of rabies immunoglubulin. 24 hours
later, he was returned to the first hospital and recieved a single dose
of the post-exposure vaccine. Before he was due for the next dose, he
developed symptoms, and soon died. Was it vaccine failure? No. Other
individuals were vaccinated from the same lot of vaccine and did not
develop the disease. The speculation of world-class specialists is that
if he had recieved both the immune globulin and the post-exposure
vaccine, with adequate cleaning of the wounds, on that first visit, it
was probable that he would have not developed rabies, and would have
survived. The key? The rabies virus had adequate time to move the
short distance from face to brain along nerve pathways.... India and
China have extremely high rates of human death from rabies..... each
between 20,000 and 40,000 in a given year. Indian cities which have
active rabies immunization programs for stray and owned dogs have
remarkably lower rates of human rabies deaths from those which do not
have such programs.

Char just has rocks in her head.... and a very poor science education
behind her.

Jo

  #8  
Old August 2nd 11, 02:42 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Char
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Posts: 771
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work

On 7/31/2011 12:29 PM, Ringer wrote:
wrote in message

And none of that has absolutely anything to do with vaccines, which proves
my point.
Sorry, polio, smallpox and rabies were wiped out or diminished by vaccines
without any of the other stuff changing. That says it all.


There is absolutely no proof of that. They were on the way out before
the vaccines were out in the general population. You really need to do
some fact checking. On top of that the polio vaccine actually caused
many cases of polio.

The link I gave shows the time lines in relation to when certain
diseases were dropping fast before the vaccines were given. That means
it's not possible for the vaccines to effect the drop in cases. Do you
understand the graphs at all? Doesn't sound like it.
  #9  
Old August 2nd 11, 02:50 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Char
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Posts: 771
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work

On 7/31/2011 4:28 PM, Jo Wolf wrote:
But Char likes to say that her pet communicable diseases were on the
decrease prior to development of vaccines.


Putting words in my mouth again? How would you know what I like to say?
Why do you feel the need to make stuff up?

Why start arguments based on lies? Is that all you have?

It's a shame someone can't post here, use factual evidence and have it
twisted around just to be spiteful. I posted it to create discussion,
not deception.

Char
  #10  
Old August 2nd 11, 09:56 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Phyrie[_3_]
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Posts: 203
Default For those of you who think vaccines actually work



"Char" wrote in message
m...

On 7/31/2011 4:28 PM, Jo Wolf wrote:
But Char likes to say that her pet communicable diseases were on the
decrease prior to development of vaccines.


Putting words in my mouth again? How would you know what I like to say?
Why do you feel the need to make stuff up?

Why start arguments based on lies? Is that all you have?

It's a shame someone can't post here, use factual evidence and have it
twisted around just to be spiteful. I posted it to create discussion,
not deception.

Char
__________________________________________________ _______________________________

Seems to me that you are the one totally ignoring other people's
well-informed posts. Why not try addressing some of the points Jo brings
up, instead of going all crazy-ass paranoid? Oh, yeah, I guess you can't do
that. No, I'm wrong. You CAN do that, but anytime ANYONE posts a sensible,
fact-filled post, you conveniently skip over it, ignore it, or insult the
author. Yep, that'll get ya far...


 




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