2 points about bad advice (in response to leah's detractors)

On 6 Dec 2003 11:50:47 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
Lee DeRaud wrote:
I'm sorry, you *completely* lost me at this point. At the risk of
indulging in hyperbole, I would have to say that the fact that Leah
persists in adding this "credential" to her posts is no less deceptive
than Jerry's "testimonials", if for no other reason than that she is
(IMHO) *consciously* using it to give her advice (good or bad) more
weight.

I was the one who asked her to do it in the interest of
disclosure; I think it's generally useful to know when
someone who's arguing that PetSmart (or however they
capitalize that mess) has a credible training program works
for PetSmart as a trainer and has a vested interest in
having people believe that the PetSmart training program is
worthwhile. I still think it's a good idea - we all have
our biases and interests, but when they're blatant and
directly topical I think we should be explicit about them.

I agree that it's a good idea that she makes it clear she *works* for
PetsMart: that's more than enough to cover the 'conflict-of-interest'
question. It's the (implicit) "training qualifications" I've got a
problem with.

Mind you, I tend to think that PetSmart employment gives
someone roughly the same gravitas as a trainer that working
at Burger King gives someone as a chef, so your point
doesn't really resonate for me personally.

Well, that too, but you never know how much someone will read into
that 'tag'.

Lee

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:56:53 -0600, diddy
wrote:

No.. She was ASKED by the group to add that, since she was constantly
referring people to go to PetSmart for training. Her recommendations were
not exactly unbiased.

If you recommend feeding Ol Roy, you should post that you work for the
company that sells it. should you not?

Absolutely: my point was that her implied "training credentials" go
quite a bit past that.

Lee

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:56:53 -0600, diddy
wrote:

No.. She was ASKED by the group to add that, since she was constantly
referring people to go to PetSmart for training. Her recommendations were
not exactly unbiased.

If you recommend feeding Ol Roy, you should post that you work for the
company that sells it. should you not?

Absolutely: my point was that her implied "training credentials" go
quite a bit past that.

Lee

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:56:53 -0600, diddy
wrote:

No.. She was ASKED by the group to add that, since she was constantly
referring people to go to PetSmart for training. Her recommendations were
not exactly unbiased.

If you recommend feeding Ol Roy, you should post that you work for the
company that sells it. should you not?

Absolutely: my point was that her implied "training credentials" go
quite a bit past that.

Lee

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:56:53 -0600, diddy
wrote:

No.. She was ASKED by the group to add that, since she was constantly
referring people to go to PetSmart for training. Her recommendations were
not exactly unbiased.

If you recommend feeding Ol Roy, you should post that you work for the
company that sells it. should you not?

Absolutely: my point was that her implied "training credentials" go
quite a bit past that.

Lee

Lee DeRaud wrote:
(I wouldn't mind seeing a line added to Lia's periodic 'newcomer
briefing' to the effect that any self-advertisement of this sort is
only worth the pixels it's displayed on.)


I'm experimenting with not sending out the occasional post. My goal for
the post was to help people talk more about dogs and less about
rehashing the usenet annoyances. I'm not sure it was doing any good.
My intention was never to tell people what they should or shouldn't talk
about. (I like a great deal of the off-topic discussion myself.) I was
only hoping to let people who wanted to complain about the resident
lunatic that we'd all been there before. That way posts could be
labeled [ninnyboy] or [eggplant] appropriately. (Have I ever told y'all
what a kick I got at the way the [eggplant] label was adopted so quickly
and absurdly?) I'm not sure how a warning about self-advertisement
would further my goals. There is a note in the occasional post about
contradictory advice. Would an additional note really help cut down on
the bickering?

--Lia

Lee DeRaud wrote:
(I wouldn't mind seeing a line added to Lia's periodic 'newcomer
briefing' to the effect that any self-advertisement of this sort is
only worth the pixels it's displayed on.)


I'm experimenting with not sending out the occasional post. My goal for
the post was to help people talk more about dogs and less about
rehashing the usenet annoyances. I'm not sure it was doing any good.
My intention was never to tell people what they should or shouldn't talk
about. (I like a great deal of the off-topic discussion myself.) I was
only hoping to let people who wanted to complain about the resident
lunatic that we'd all been there before. That way posts could be
labeled [ninnyboy] or [eggplant] appropriately. (Have I ever told y'all
what a kick I got at the way the [eggplant] label was adopted so quickly
and absurdly?) I'm not sure how a warning about self-advertisement
would further my goals. There is a note in the occasional post about
contradictory advice. Would an additional note really help cut down on
the bickering?

--Lia

Lee DeRaud wrote:
(I wouldn't mind seeing a line added to Lia's periodic 'newcomer
briefing' to the effect that any self-advertisement of this sort is
only worth the pixels it's displayed on.)


I'm experimenting with not sending out the occasional post. My goal for
the post was to help people talk more about dogs and less about
rehashing the usenet annoyances. I'm not sure it was doing any good.
My intention was never to tell people what they should or shouldn't talk
about. (I like a great deal of the off-topic discussion myself.) I was
only hoping to let people who wanted to complain about the resident
lunatic that we'd all been there before. That way posts could be
labeled [ninnyboy] or [eggplant] appropriately. (Have I ever told y'all
what a kick I got at the way the [eggplant] label was adopted so quickly
and absurdly?) I'm not sure how a warning about self-advertisement
would further my goals. There is a note in the occasional post about
contradictory advice. Would an additional note really help cut down on
the bickering?

--Lia

Lee DeRaud wrote:
(I wouldn't mind seeing a line added to Lia's periodic 'newcomer
briefing' to the effect that any self-advertisement of this sort is
only worth the pixels it's displayed on.)


I'm experimenting with not sending out the occasional post. My goal for
the post was to help people talk more about dogs and less about
rehashing the usenet annoyances. I'm not sure it was doing any good.
My intention was never to tell people what they should or shouldn't talk
about. (I like a great deal of the off-topic discussion myself.) I was
only hoping to let people who wanted to complain about the resident
lunatic that we'd all been there before. That way posts could be
labeled [ninnyboy] or [eggplant] appropriately. (Have I ever told y'all
what a kick I got at the way the [eggplant] label was adopted so quickly
and absurdly?) I'm not sure how a warning about self-advertisement
would further my goals. There is a note in the occasional post about
contradictory advice. Would an additional note really help cut down on
the bickering?

--Lia

People complain because it's there, and they complain when it isn't. Poor
Leah can't win!

Definitely truth to that last one - as I said, while I sometimes holler
when Leah gives advice I think is off-base, I also think a lot of people in
here get a bit carried away with their attitudes towards her & everything
she posts. I understand why they have those attitudes, but I don't agree
with them. I am *not*, btw, referring to Lone's "you don't have a clue"; she
was specifically referring to Leah's lack of experience in dealing with
aggression.

As regards Leah's signature line, I think it's perfectly appropriate for
her to put it on there, myself; the issue comes in when people in here, like
people in RL, don't realize that a PetsMart pet trainer is not necessarily
someone with any real training or experience.
That's not a Leah-specific issue, it's a general issue.