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Need some breed ideas



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 14th 03, 09:13 PM
Suzmyers
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Default Need some breed ideas

judy wrote:
Danger sign. Mom can want the dog a little less than they do and it may
happen that she comes to love the dog more than anyone else but you
shouldn't count on this happening. And Mom is working when she's at home.
And she has a large house and a five year old. It's not like she's sitting
around eating bon-bons and wishing for something to fill up her hours.

There are several other people who
live in their household (big house, something like 8 bedrooms) so
someone is generally at home all the time, so a puppy isn't
necessarily going to be as hard for them as it would be for someone
who isn't home all day.


Another danger sign for a puppy. Just having someone around isn't what
house breaks a puppy. It takes having whoever is there - and it doesn't
have to always be the same person - to be completely aware of the puppy.
Where it is every single minute. How long ago it ate. What happened the
last time the puppy was taken out. And the steps to teach the dog to go
outside has to be same for everyone. Everyone has to be on the same page
and using the same words and procedures to train the dog. And ideally that
should be one or two adults 95% of the time. I've got to tell you that it
wouldn't happen at my house even if the other person were my own mother and
not a teenager- much less a person who wasn't involved in the dog's life at
any other time.

Both of these things concern me a whole lot more than what breed would be
best. Unless someone is going to be completely committed to housebreaking a
puppy, then it absolutely should not be a puppy. And unless Mom is willing
to be the person in charge of the dog, even when it's not convenient for her
(because dogs are never totally convenient to have around) then there
shouldn't be any dog.

I don't have any objection to there being a five year old. My daughter grew
up with our dogs around. She learned how to treat dogs and to respect them
as individuals. The list of breeds that would absolutely be ruled out
because of a five year old who is going to be well supervised is fairly
short. But again, Mom has to want the dog so that the first time five year
old gets growled at she isn't heading to the nearest animal shelter to dump
the dog.

Low to moderate energy level also doesn't rule out as many breeds as you
might think. After their puppyhood, most breeds will settle into your
household routine and will manage just fine on a reasonable exercise
routine. We have schnauzers, who most people would label as at least
moderate energy. When the weather is bad or we are just laying low
ourselves for some reason, they become real couch potatoes. Some stay like
that most of their lives. When they have someone to play with on a regular
basis, then they adjust to that also. I have found the same to be true for
beagles, boxers, and retrievers (although *not* the true field type).

Most dogs will respond well to training. Especially if the training is
consistent. Both initially and throughout their lives. There are breeds
that are easier for more advance training but there isn't a breed that can't
be trained to live in a house and have decent manners.

My advice is for an adult dog. As far as breed, find out what appeals to
Mom. Even if they get a dog from a shelter, it will give everyone a better
idea of what look she likes best in a dog. From what information you've
given us, it's really still mostly a personal reaction from the person
suggesting the breeds. The stereotypical answer is for a medium sized lab
or golden, perhaps a beagle. If what they're after is wash and wear and
little or no grooming, those are hard to beat. And(speaking generally)
they tend to be breeds that love the whole world so having a busy household
(and eventually the five year old will have more and more friends over) will
only be more people to pet them.

~~Judy



I totally agree with what Judy has written --and would like to add just a
little:

After housebreaking a dog in a small house and then trying to housebreak one in
a large one, I soon realized how much more difficult it is to follow a puppy
around and keep an eye on them in a larger house. Unless mom intends to
confine the puppy to the area she works in (providing it is a small area), she
is going to expend A LOT of energy just keeping on eye on the new puppy.
Also, I have a Boston Terrier - he is ten plus years old, and he is STILL
not what I would consider a low to medium energy dog. He can keep up with my
11 month old JRT with just a couple more naps each day. Don't get me wrong,
Bostons are GREAT family dogs, but they have LOTS of energy. My vet says all
the Bostons he sees are the same way, so I know mine isn't that different! He
is GREAT with cats and bunnies however.
I recommend a rescue adult...Mom will be MUCH happier!

Sue
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates
  #2  
Old October 15th 03, 02:29 AM
moontoad
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judy wrote:
Danger sign. Mom can want the dog a little less than they do and it may
happen that she comes to love the dog more than anyone else but you
shouldn't count on this happening. And Mom is working when she's at home.
And she has a large house and a five year old. It's not like she's sitting
around eating bon-bons and wishing for something to fill up her hours.



Another danger sign for a puppy. Just having someone around isn't what
house breaks a puppy. It takes having whoever is there - and it doesn't
have to always be the same person - to be completely aware of the puppy.
Where it is every single minute.


I should have clarified. This is a long term group housing situation.
There is another father/wife/child in the house, and several single
adults. Decisions like getting the dog are made with the entire group
of adults, and they all take responsibility of the pet, with the
actual owners (the initial Mom/Dad/son) having primary responsibility.
So if the primary caretaker can't be there, then someone else will be
taking care of the puppy, if indeed they do get a puppy. It isn't
just a matter of the pup being tossed in a household full of people
and being ignored. The secondary caretakers will actually function
more like puppy sitters for short periods of time (like when Mom has
to go food shopping).



Both of these things concern me a whole lot more than what breed would be
best. Unless someone is going to be completely committed to housebreaking a
puppy, then it absolutely should not be a puppy. And unless Mom is willing
to be the person in charge of the dog, even when it's not convenient for her
(because dogs are never totally convenient to have around) then there
shouldn't be any dog.


Yep, Mom is willing to be in charge except when Dad is home. They
have a small sitting room right off of where mom works, which will be
set up as the puppy area because it is right next to the desk that mom
is at, so when she's not directly involved with the pup it can sleep
in that area, and if she has to be on the phone and can't play with
the pup for the duration of the call, the pup has a safe space to be.


But again, Mom has to want the dog so that the first time five year
old gets growled at she isn't heading to the nearest animal shelter to dump
the dog.


They definitely don't have that mindset. The only reason that Mom
wasn't so sure about the dog was because of the added responsibility,
and most of that stems from housebreaking. So they are considering a
housebroken dog from a rescue, with the expectation that a few
accidents can happen when the dog is put into a new situation. And
despite the large amount of people living in the house, it is a quiet
house, not a busy one.




My advice is for an adult dog. As far as breed, find out what appeals to
Mom. Even if they get a dog from a shelter, it will give everyone a better
idea of what look she likes best in a dog.


This is exactly what I think is most appropriate for them. I was
talking to them yesterday, and told the dad (who I was actually
talking with) that the breed choice/individual choice of dog should
belong to Mom, because she's the one who will be taking care of the
dog for the most time.

The stereotypical answer is for a medium sized lab
or golden, perhaps a beagle. If what they're after is wash and wear and
little or no grooming, those are hard to beat. And(speaking generally)
they tend to be breeds that love the whole world so having a busy household
(and eventually the five year old will have more and more friends over) will
only be more people to pet them.


I think that a lab or a golden is a bit larger than mom really wants.
And while an individual beagle can be the exception, they aren't
really good with coming back when called when something gets their
attention. Are there any sight or scent hounds that are good in that
regard?




a large one, I soon realized how much more difficult it is to follow a puppy
around and keep an eye on them in a larger house. Unless mom intends to
confine the puppy to the area she works in (providing it is a small area), she
is going to expend A LOT of energy just keeping on eye on the new puppy.


Yeah, if they do get any dog, it will be confined to a relatively
small area to start with while under supervision. If it is an adult,
it will get more and more freedom in the house as it becomes used to
them and the situation. If it is a pup, it will stay in the small
area (it's a small room, maybe 10' x 12", that is between the kitchen
and the office, and can be blocked from both sides, so a puppy would
have room to play yet be right next to mom) until it is reliably
housebroken and then would get more house privaleges depending on how
much the pup likes to chew on non-suitable things (like the living
room furniture).

natalie
  #4  
Old October 15th 03, 02:20 PM
queenmother
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"moontoad" wrote in message
om...
Yep, Mom is willing to be in charge except when Dad is home. They
have a small sitting room right off of where mom works,


Sounds like it could work.

The only reason that Mom
wasn't so sure about the dog was because of the added responsibility,
and most of that stems from housebreaking. So they are considering a
housebroken dog from a rescue, with the expectation that a few
accidents can happen when the dog is put into a new situation.


A very good thought. Some puppies housebreak very quickly. With some
exceptions for breeds (particularly small ones from what I've heard) and
individuals, there is a fairly direct correlation between effort on the part
of the caretaker and the length of time it takes. Consistency is key. My
husband used to brag about a dog we had who house-broke in three days. Yes,
the dog grasped the concept of "outside" quickly in spite of winter weather
but the one who was trained first was me. I was alert and consistent until
he caught up with the rules.

One thing that I've found also is that floor plan can have a real effect.
We take our dogs in and out a sliding door that is visible from much of the
house. It is easier for us to notice when a mostly trained puppy goes to
the door than it is for some friends who have a house with a door that is
out of their normal sight. Nothing they can do about it but it does take
some additional effort on their part to stay aware of the dog.

We recently brought a two year old dog into our household, after *always*
starting with puppies. I have to admit that I didn't miss the housebreaking
part. Sassy came from a home where she was either crated or was loose with
a dog door to a pen always available. We had to teach her the concept of
getting our attention at the door when she needs to go out. There was one
accident in the first days - our fault entirely for not paying better
attention. Chewing has never been an issue with her - except for the time
we left the newspaper on the couch rather than on the coffee table. I
forgot how much Spenser loved to shred paper and apparently his sister is
the same.

I think that a lab or a golden is a bit larger than mom really wants.


I was thinking mostly of temperament there. It might be possible to find an
adult dog in rescue who was on the smaller side.

And while an individual beagle can be the exception, they aren't
really good with coming back when called when something gets their
attention. Are there any sight or scent hounds that are good in that
regard?


None that will ever be as good as a non-hound breed with the same training.
They are bred to follow their noses and the prey. Beagles absolutely can be
trained a reasonable recall. I'm assuming that it is not their intention to
let the dog run loose. We take our schnauzers out into the unfenced part of
our yard daily without leashes. There is no reason the same cannot be done
with a beagle - after the same recall training and with the same vigilance
on the part of the person with them. I still keep an eye out for the
neighbor's dog running loose because I know it will test my dogs' recall if
they see him and want to go play.

I keep thinking basset hound. Beagle absolutely *could* work. There are
many terriers that could work ( I keep thinking Scottie), but it does take
someone who appreciates a terrier mind. In any breed, it's a matter of
understanding the pros and cons of how and why the dog was bred and being
aware of what that can mean day to day.

What about a well-bred cocker? They had developed a terrible reputation but
they seem to be making great strides in returning to a good temperament what
used to be a great breed. If I could live with dog hair I would absolutely
consider one.

I see a lot of families with kids who have Keeshond or American Eskimo.
Anybody know of any over-riding reasons to not consider them also?

~~Judy



  #5  
Old October 15th 03, 03:20 PM
PErcoli
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p wrote:
1. low to moderate energy level
2. ok with children of all ages
3. responds well to training
4. is respectful to cats
5. non-intense grooming requirements.



You should look at some of the Sporting Spaniels:

Sussex
Clumber
Welsh Springer
Field
Cavalier King Charles
Also
French Bulldog
Basset Hound
Spinone Italiano

also explore some of the options in some of the rare breeds too, may take some
research and doing, but there is a lot out there. I would personally stick to
the sporting breeds and rule out herding dogs and terriers, especially if you
want low energy, something quiet, also rule out any type of dog that was
trained to alert and be watchful, and anything bred to be independent and with
a one track mind.
I feel all breeds are trainable and will get along with cats if properly
started out and trained and socialized from the beginning.

Go beyond this list, go to dog shows, read books, go to other lists etc., get
as much info as you can, see dogs in person and hands on and talk to their
breeders and owners. There is a lot to be learned.

P.

Paula

  #6  
Old October 15th 03, 03:54 PM
Lostwithiel
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What about a well-bred cocker? They had developed a terrible reputation
but
they seem to be making great strides in returning to a good temperament

what
used to be a great breed. If I could live with dog hair I would

absolutely
consider one.


We've got 2 gorgeous cockers - they are cat friendly, children friendly and
everyone friendly They are such friendly little dogs, really loving,
really loving of life and I'd recommend them.....


  #7  
Old October 15th 03, 07:24 PM
queenmother
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"Lostwithiel" wrote in message
...
We've got 2 gorgeous cockers - they are cat friendly, children friendly

and
everyone friendly They are such friendly little dogs, really loving,
really loving of life and I'd recommend them.....


When a cocker is "done right", they are great little dogs. I've never been
involved training one but my suspicion is that they are relatively easy. As
hunting dogs, they are used to working close with the hunter - unlike
retrievers and hounds.

~~Judy


  #8  
Old October 16th 03, 04:00 PM
Mud E Poz
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Sussex
Clumber
Welsh Springer
Field
Cavalier King Charles


Funny, English springer is not on here, yet far easier to find and with a good
breeder a super pet, healthy and sane
  #9  
Old October 16th 03, 05:39 PM
queenmother
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"Mud E Poz" wrote in message
...

Sussex
Clumber
Welsh Springer
Field
Cavalier King Charles


Funny, English springer is not on here, yet far easier to find and with a

good
breeder a super pet, healthy and sane


I gotta agree with you. This would be an excellent suggestion for the OP.
These are really wonderful dogs and would fit into their situation very
well.

~~Judy


  #10  
Old October 18th 03, 04:54 AM
Lynn K.
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(moontoad) wrote in message . com...

I should have clarified. This is a long term group housing situation.
There is another father/wife/child in the house, and several single
adults. Decisions like getting the dog are made with the entire group
of adults, and they all take responsibility of the pet, with the
actual owners (the initial Mom/Dad/son) having primary responsibility.
So if the primary caretaker can't be there, then someone else will be
taking care of the puppy, if indeed they do get a puppy.


There's an additional factor to consider in this kind of situation - a
temperament that is friendly to all on the premises. I've placed a
couple of rescue dogs into a larger communal situation (50 some
people, sleeping cottages but most activity in large central building,
multiple existing pets on the property). It took us about 5 months to
find the perfect dog, but the primary consideration was temperament,
not breed. We needed a quiet dog, with no objectionable habits to
irritate any members, a dog who approached all humans with friendly
politeness, a non-territorial or protective dog, a dog who wouldn't
challenge or threaten any of the other animals. The first dog we put
into the situation was actually technically a puppy - 14 months old,
but she had been in an active foster family for 2 month, so we had a
pretty good idea of her personality.

I really would think twice about a very young puppy for this
situation, simply because you won't be able to predict temperament as
well. Better to go with an older dog who has been in a foster
situation so that you've got some sense of how he/she will integrate
into the household.

Lynn K.
 




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