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#11
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Vet trip
cshenk wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
Ok, update. After months of dealing with Aunti Mabel's ears 'almost clearing then getting worse again' we have a hope of solution. Hopefully this will help another dealing with a chronic ear issue as well? The 2 infections cultured are psuedomonus aeruginosa and enterococcus, plus yeast and a perfect environment for possible fungal addition though they did not find any. She had a full blood lab workup with her last visit and all is excellent so she's a candidate for the following meds which we start tonight. Remicin where based on weight and the concentration of this formula, she gets '5 drops per ear'. This one is for the psuedomonos and is the one the vet says she doesn't get to use often because of the highish rate of deafness (and a grunch of other things not related to a spayed female). This particular infection type is highly resistant to treatment but this one med works very well. It also reduces inflammation and swelling. Zeniquin, this is for the enterococcus and is a general spectrum with several things we are to watch for but she has been on it before for a urinary infection and had no problems. Her ears almost cleared then but the dosage was only 5 days so this time she gets 10 days and if she doesnt look *totally cleared* we go back in at day 9 for another 10 days worth. For dogs with no adverse reactions, this can be given up to 30 days but they will do another blood workup on her if they need to extend it. They have a lab onsite that can give them the results they need within 30 mins. She also has a bottle of C/O to be used with her cleaning and another that is a yeast specific to swap to once we deal with the primary issue. Due to the meds her feeding has a shift. Do not add her doggie glucosamine/chondritin additive and shift her to a dashi (fish broth) nooner. Aim is no added calcium and a few other things that reduce the effectiveness of the meds. Stop RMB for now but she can have all the straight raw and organ meats we want to feed her as long as she gets 1/2 the bowl as blue wilderness kibble. Keep her *strictly* grain free of any wheat, corn or soy as we have been doing. Wish her luck! The aulde bitch has been through plenty and deserves to have ears that don't itch and hurt! -- |
#12
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Vet trip
On 7/7/2011 5:56 PM, cshenk wrote:
cshenk wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: Ok, update. After months of dealing with Aunti Mabel's ears 'almost clearing then getting worse again' we have a hope of solution. Hopefully this will help another dealing with a chronic ear issue as well? The 2 infections cultured are psuedomonus aeruginosa and enterococcus, plus yeast and a perfect environment for possible fungal addition though they did not find any. She had a full blood lab workup with her last visit and all is excellent so she's a candidate for the following meds which we start tonight. Remicin where based on weight and the concentration of this formula, she gets '5 drops per ear'. This one is for the psuedomonos and is the one the vet says she doesn't get to use often because of the highish rate of deafness (and a grunch of other things not related to a spayed female). This particular infection type is highly resistant to treatment but this one med works very well. It also reduces inflammation and swelling. Zeniquin, this is for the enterococcus and is a general spectrum with several things we are to watch for but she has been on it before for a urinary infection and had no problems. Her ears almost cleared then but the dosage was only 5 days so this time she gets 10 days and if she doesnt look *totally cleared* we go back in at day 9 for another 10 days worth. For dogs with no adverse reactions, this can be given up to 30 days but they will do another blood workup on her if they need to extend it. They have a lab onsite that can give them the results they need within 30 mins. She also has a bottle of C/O to be used with her cleaning and another that is a yeast specific to swap to once we deal with the primary issue. Due to the meds her feeding has a shift. Do not add her doggie glucosamine/chondritin additive and shift her to a dashi (fish broth) nooner. Aim is no added calcium and a few other things that reduce the effectiveness of the meds. Stop RMB for now but she can have all the straight raw and organ meats we want to feed her as long as she gets 1/2 the bowl as blue wilderness kibble. Keep her *strictly* grain free of any wheat, corn or soy as we have been doing. Wish her luck! The aulde bitch has been through plenty and deserves to have ears that don't itch and hurt! And you could have done it with absolutely no side effects and no harm to the dog at all. Chronic issues come from resistance to antibiotics which can't happen with colloidal silver. There would be no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place. http://www.silverpuppy.com/drclarknews.html You can lead a horse to water.... |
#13
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Vet trip
Char wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
Wish her luck! The aulde bitch has been through plenty and deserves to have ears that don't itch and hurt! And you could have done it with absolutely no side effects and no harm to the dog at all. Chronic issues come from resistance to antibiotics which can't happen with colloidal silver. There would be no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place. Char, this is not MRSA and colloidal silver would not come even faintly close to treating this. I am however glad to report that after 2 days, she is showing definate signs of healing and there are no side effects. I was a little worried she might have lose stools which at her age is something you have to react to fast, but she hasnt. - |
#14
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Vet trip
On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:12:55 -0400, Char
wrote: There would be no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place. But millions more human beings would now be dead/dying from tuberculosis, typhoid fever, bubonic plague, bacterial meningitis, etc. Some people are utterly unable to differentiate between: 1) antibiotic ABUSE, 2) using antibiotics wisely. And you're one of them, Char. -- Dogman |
#15
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Vet trip
Dogman wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:12:55 -0400, Char wrote: There would be no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place. But millions more human beings would now be dead/dying from tuberculosis, typhoid fever, bubonic plague, bacterial meningitis, etc. Some people are utterly unable to differentiate between: 1) antibiotic ABUSE, 2) using antibiotics wisely. And you're one of them, Char. True. We tried everything else for several months. Day 3, very obviously getting better. No signs of any problems from the meds at all. She's on relatively low doses due to her size. If this doesnt kick it, they can almost double them for another 2 weeks after this set if they need to. Query, have you or any others here had this psuedomonous or enterococcus to deal with? My vet says it's not that common around here and very hard to fix. Specifically, it wont be fixed with any standard ear cleaning solutions unlike yeast can be. -- |
#16
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Vet trip
On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:59:41 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:
Dogman wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:12:55 -0400, Char wrote: There would be no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place. But millions more human beings would now be dead/dying from tuberculosis, typhoid fever, bubonic plague, bacterial meningitis, etc. Some people are utterly unable to differentiate between: 1) antibiotic ABUSE, 2) using antibiotics wisely. And you're one of them, Char. True. We tried everything else for several months. Day 3, very obviously getting better. No signs of any problems from the meds at all. She's on relatively low doses due to her size. If this doesnt kick it, they can almost double them for another 2 weeks after this set if they need to. Query, have you or any others here had this psuedomonous or enterococcus to deal with? My vet says it's not that common around here and very hard to fix. Specifically, it wont be fixed with any standard ear cleaning solutions unlike yeast can be. I wouldn't think that cleaning solutions would be able to fix them, but it likely helps to prevent them. My dogs spend a lot of time in water and in the field, so it's imperative that I keep their ears clean. I clean their ears after every swim and/or trip to the field. It's easy to do, the dogs actually enjoy having their ears cleaned (they love having their ears massaged), and I just never have any serious ear problems, kiddo. I hope your dog finally gets some relief. -- Dogman |
#17
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Vet trip
Unfortunately, pseudamonas aeruginosa has been resistant to drugs for
MANY years, back into the 1960s that I am aware of. It's a common contaminant in burn wounds, where it kills. In the 1960s, a sulfa compound, applied topically, was found to be fairly effective against it... until it went systematic. Sulfamylon, a very acidic cream, was the most effective at one point. •Into the 1980s, early1990s, this was sometimes diluted and used for p.a. in the ear, twice a day, in dogs.• Your vets might talk to the dogs at the nearest burn unit or major teaching hospital, to see if it's still available. I know that at one point it was available in tubes, rather than only the 2 lb jars we used in the hospital. We experimented with silver nitrate mixed in sulfadiazine cream for burn wounds in patients who went into a severe acidotic state with sulfmylon or who were allergic to that particular sulfa drug.... but it was not as effective. Previous to that, and since then, as well, thick wet dressings, changed at least twice a day, saturated with silver nitrate solution, were used for those who could not tolerate sulfas. It was not highly effective, and really only worked fairly well on small (under 20% body surface) burns that were mostly 2nd degree. These stain EVERYTHING a dull black, making it difficult to tell if the environment is being kept clean enough... DO NOT confuse silver nitrate with "colloidal silver". Ain't the same. From 1968 to 1972, I worked with all of these at the Army's Institute of Surgical Research ("the burn unit") at Brooke Army Medical Center, Fort Sam Houston, TX. Enterococcus species are a pistol to deal with as they are everywhere, and have become increasingly difficult to treat with antibacterials and antibiotics. Culture and sensitivity testing, which is what had been done in this case, would have told the docs what would work best. Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
#18
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Vet trip
Dogman wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:59:41 -0500, "cshenk" wrote: Dogman wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 17:12:55 -0400, Char wrote: There would be no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place. But millions more human beings would now be dead/dying from tuberculosis, typhoid fever, bubonic plague, bacterial meningitis, etc. Some people are utterly unable to differentiate between: 1) antibiotic ABUSE, 2) using antibiotics wisely. And you're one of them, Char. True. We tried everything else for several months. Day 3, very obviously getting better. No signs of any problems from the meds at all. She's on relatively low doses due to her size. If this doesnt kick it, they can almost double them for another 2 weeks after this set if they need to. Query, have you or any others here had this psuedomonous or enterococcus to deal with? My vet says it's not that common around here and very hard to fix. Specifically, it wont be fixed with any standard ear cleaning solutions unlike yeast can be. I wouldn't think that cleaning solutions would be able to fix them, but it likely helps to prevent them. My dogs spend a lot of time in water and in the field, so it's imperative that I keep their ears clean. I clean their ears after every swim and/or trip to the field. It's easy to do, the dogs actually enjoy having their ears cleaned (they love having their ears massaged), and I just never have any serious ear problems, kiddo. I hope your dog finally gets some relief. Yes, and thanks. Until the culture test, no one knew for sure what was going on. Now my vet is kicking herself for not suggesting it earlier (and i didn't know there was such as thing beyond what their own lab does so couldnt ask for one). Cash enjoys his cleaning too, when he gets a yeast infection as he's prone to if he gets at wheat/corn/soy (suspect wheat mostly but not sure). She's been jumping through sprinklers and over tufts of grass the past 48 hours. Very much a change here. I think her main complaint right now is Cash gets fed more but then, he's naturally almost twice her size! -- |
#19
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Vet trip
Jo Wolf wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
Unfortunately, pseudamonas aeruginosa has been resistant to drugs for MANY years, back into the 1960s that I am aware of. It's a common contaminant in burn wounds, where it kills. In the 1960s, a sulfa compound, applied topically, was found to be fairly effective against it... until it went systematic. Sulfamylon, a very acidic cream, was the most effective at one point. Into the 1980s, early1990s, this was sometimes diluted and used for p.a. in the ear, twice a day, in dogs. Your vets might talk to the dogs at the nearest burn unit or major teaching hospital, to see if it's still available. I know that at one point it was available in tubes, rather than only the 2 lb jars we used in the hospital. We experimented with silver nitrate mixed in sulfadiazine cream for burn wounds in patients who went into a severe acidotic state with sulfmylon or who were allergic to that particular sulfa drug.... but it was not as effective. Previous to that, and since then, as well, thick wet dressings, changed at least twice a day, saturated with silver nitrate solution, were used for those who could not tolerate sulfas. It was not highly effective, and really only worked fairly well on small (under 20% body surface) burns that were mostly 2nd degree. These stain EVERYTHING a dull black, making it difficult to tell if the environment is being kept clean enough... DO NOT confuse silver nitrate with "colloidal silver". Ain't the same. From 1968 to 1972, I worked with all of these at the Army's Institute of Surgical Research ("the burn unit") at Brooke Army Medical Center, Fort Sam Houston, TX. Enterococcus species are a pistol to deal with as they are everywhere, and have become increasingly difficult to treat with antibacterials and antibiotics. Culture and sensitivity testing, which is what had been done in this case, would have told the docs what would work best. Thanks Jo, this matches what the vet told me (without burn reference to humans of course). *Both* are hard to fix and none of the standard treatments did more than irritate her poor sore ears. The two are being treated by a combination of pill for anti-bacterial and a drop form in a small tube. The Zeniquin is the drop form in a tube and the one they normally will not use on normal dogs because of higher incidence of causing deafness (sometimes temporary, sometimes not). In Aunti Mabel's case, a moot point and the most effective on the market. Grin, don't worry, 'collodial silver' utterly not the same. I'll goggle the zeniquin again as I think I saw that silver nitrate is a small part of what is in there but I'm no chemist. There was plenty of other stuff besides that in the zeniquin. Her ears still do not look 'healthy' but they look so much more tremendously better, it's definate this is working. -- |
#20
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Vet trip
On 7/10/2011 6:06 PM, cshenk wrote:
Char wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: Wish her luck! The aulde bitch has been through plenty and deserves to have ears that don't itch and hurt! And you could have done it with absolutely no side effects and no harm to the dog at all. Chronic issues come from resistance to antibiotics which can't happen with colloidal silver. There would be no MRSA if antibiotics weren't used in the first place. Char, this is not MRSA and colloidal silver would not come even faintly close to treating this. Ms Misinformed, yes indeed it would have treated it. "An antibiotic kills perhaps a half-dozen different disease organisms, but silver kills some 650. Resistant strains fail to develop. Moreover, silver is virtually non-toxic." "After the development of the patented antibiotics, silver was forgotten in the United States and most other places, although the antibiotics are only effective against bacteria, not viruses, yeast, or fungi. (like CS does)" Just once, admit you talk out your ass and don't have a clue. I am however glad to report that after 2 days, she is showing definate signs of healing and there are no side effects. I was a little worried she might have lose stools which at her age is something you have to react to fast, but she hasnt. - |
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