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Pet store dogs - opinions LONG



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 14th 05, 04:07 PM
Brian and Maggie
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Default Pet store dogs - opinions LONG

Plenty of stories exist to scare my wife and I away from pet store
animals. Pet stores encourage bad breeders. Bad breeders create
unhealthy lineage, poor conditions for animals, and a quick buck.
A local pet store sells each pet with a monthly credit payment.
The bottom line price is hidden underneath the credit approval
tag. "Don't care just as long as we get paid."

So pet stores are awful. Yet they have five beagles (dog of
choice) and the beagles look healthy, alert, and playful. This
same store also has a walking policy that allows qualified
walkers (CA drivers license + credit card probably) to socialize
the animal in the mall. That goes to the pet stores credit IMHO.

Alternatives:

AKC or NBC sanctioned breeders.
As dedicated, if not slightly more grounded, as the cast from
Best of Show. A bit of an ivory tower. Looks like we'll spend
12 months attaining an animal this way. Both my wife and I are
college educated. We have great credit. I've been a lifetime
pet owner. In other words, we're barely qualified. I'm going
to say something "horrific" that would instantly disqualify me
from owning one of these champion bred pets. They are only
dogs. It's easier to adopt a kid from Romania. (In fairness,
I haven't tried finding a dog yet, I'm just going from website
impressions - does anyone have any experience? We only have
one local breeder about 20 miles north of us. She has yet
to respond to me after a week.)

Local Animal Shelter.
Absolutely no beagles of course. Absolutely no puppies of
course. Plenty of pit bull adults. Not a good option for my
two year old and my five year old.

Classified breeders.
The two classified "pure bred" animals my parents bought years ago
both had problems. A persian lives its life under their bed. Normally
I would blame any behavioral problems on the pet owner not providing
some essential need for the animal. But my parents have owned about
15 cats in their lifetime (all healthy and beloved animals) including
two perfectly normal persians. The other pet is a dauchtsun (sp)
which had congenital spine issues.

It sounds like a bunch of hit or miss with the classified breeders.
And to touch on that disqualified-pet-owner tone once more, I'm
not interested in spending 12 months infiltrating clubs looking
for the best small time breeder to be put on the next litter waiting
list etc etc etc.

So anyway, the pet store option doesn't look all that bad to me
right now. But I'm not about to buy before I know what I'm really
creating here in terms of keeping the business nice to the animals.

Pet store purchases seem no worse balanced to me than attaining an
animal any other way. Any advice, comments, blunders in my
reasoning, etc?

Opinions welcome. Thanks.



  #2  
Old June 14th 05, 04:17 PM
Melinda Shore
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Posts: n/a
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In article ,
Brian and Maggie wrote:
So pet stores are awful. Yet they have five beagles (dog of
choice) and the beagles look healthy, alert, and playful.


I have a rescue who was originally purchased at a pet store.
He came with AKC registration and a pedigree, and from that
I could see that he was bred at a puppy mill in Missouri,
which meant that the people who bought him were supporting
the puppy mill industry. Because he was separated from his
litter at such a young age (probably 5 or 6 weeks) he has
some serious socialization problems that led him to become
dog aggressive. He can also be a bully towards humans, and
I suspect that the people who surrendered him to rescue got
rid of him in large part to get him away from their
children.

He also has juvenile cataracts, an inherited disorder that
caused him to be nearly entirely blind by the age of 6.

This is a pretty typical pet store puppy outcome - a dog
with health and behavioral problems so severe that his
owners, who were basically loving (albeit ignorant) people,
had to get rid of him while he was still pretty young. I
bet he was a really cute puppy, though.

Finding a quality puppy isn't easy, but it seems to me that
it's worthwhile to put at least as much energy into it as
you'd put into buying a car.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

43% of all private-sector jobs created in the US
from 2001 to April 2005 are housing-related
  #3  
Old June 14th 05, 04:42 PM
Mary Healey
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Posts: n/a
Default

Brian and Maggie wrote :
So pet stores are awful. Yet they have five beagles (dog of
choice) and the beagles look healthy, alert, and playful. This
same store also has a walking policy that allows qualified
walkers (CA drivers license + credit card probably) to socialize
the animal in the mall. That goes to the pet stores credit IMHO.

Alternatives:


OK, I'll play.

AKC or NBC sanctioned breeders.


Does the AKC actually "sanction" or "approve" breeders?

...Both my wife and I are
college educated. We have great credit. I've been a lifetime
pet owner. In other words, we're barely qualified.


If that. Level of education and credit aren't really relevant to
critter care, are they? Have you been a lifetime (life-long?) Beagle
owner, or is your experience with turtles and goldfish?

I'm going
to say something "horrific" that would instantly disqualify me
from owning one of these champion bred pets. They are only
dogs. It's easier to adopt a kid from Romania.


So get a dog from Romania.

Local Animal Shelter.
Absolutely no beagles of course.


Today. Try again tomorrow. And the day after.

Unfortunately, I could probably adopt a dog of my chosen breed from one
of the local shelters a dozen or more times a year. Maybe not on any
one particular day, but within a week or so. I could certainly find a
dog of my chosen breed in a shelter somewhere in the state any day of
the week.

Absolutely no puppies of course.


Puppies are over-rated. They grow into dogs, and stay dogs a whole lot
longer.

Classified breeders.
The two classified "pure bred" animals my parents bought years ago
both had problems.


If a breeder generates so little interest in a litter among fellow
fanciers that they resort to classified ads, they're probably not
someone you want to deal with.

... I'm
not interested in spending 12 months infiltrating clubs looking
for the best small time breeder to be put on the next litter waiting
list etc etc etc.


Your impatience is certainly a character flaw. Why be in such a
freaking hurry to spend the next decade or two in the company of an
animal who isn't what you really wanted, or thought you were getting?

Pet store purchases seem no worse balanced to me than attaining an
animal any other way. Any advice, comments, blunders in my
reasoning, etc?


Sure. I've known several pet store puppies post-purchase. The
Dschshund submissively urinated all his life (which ended abruptly under
a car's wheels). The Siamese was aggressive. The Beagles both had
horrific allergies, and the prednisone shortened their lives.

If *I* was going to risk such outcomes, I wouldn't be paying hundreds of
dollars to some puppy mill for the privilege. I'd either select a
breeder who was savvy and reputable enough to understand my concerns and
make some concrete (verifiable) efforts to minimize those risks, or I'd
adopt a dog from a rescue or shelter. In the latter case, the risks are
the same but I'm not financially rewarding the breeder of a carelessly
bred animal.

Ultimately, you pays you money and takes your chance. Good luck.
  #4  
Old June 14th 05, 04:45 PM
diddy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in thread : Brian and Maggie
whittled the following words:

Plenty of stories exist to scare my wife and I away from pet store
animals. Pet stores encourage bad breeders. Bad breeders create
unhealthy lineage, poor conditions for animals, and a quick buck.
A local pet store sells each pet with a monthly credit payment.
The bottom line price is hidden underneath the credit approval
tag. "Don't care just as long as we get paid."

So pet stores are awful. Yet they have five beagles (dog of
choice) and the beagles look healthy, alert, and playful. This
same store also has a walking policy that allows qualified
walkers (CA drivers license + credit card probably) to socialize
the animal in the mall. That goes to the pet stores credit IMHO.

Alternatives:

AKC or NBC sanctioned breeders.
As dedicated, if not slightly more grounded, as the cast from
Best of Show. A bit of an ivory tower. Looks like we'll spend
12 months attaining an animal this way. Both my wife and I are
college educated. We have great credit. I've been a lifetime
pet owner. In other words, we're barely qualified. I'm going
to say something "horrific" that would instantly disqualify me
from owning one of these champion bred pets. They are only
dogs. It's easier to adopt a kid from Romania. (In fairness,
I haven't tried finding a dog yet, I'm just going from website
impressions - does anyone have any experience? We only have
one local breeder about 20 miles north of us. She has yet
to respond to me after a week.)

Local Animal Shelter.
Absolutely no beagles of course. Absolutely no puppies of
course. Plenty of pit bull adults. Not a good option for my
two year old and my five year old.

Classified breeders.
The two classified "pure bred" animals my parents bought years ago
both had problems. A persian lives its life under their bed. Normally
I would blame any behavioral problems on the pet owner not providing
some essential need for the animal. But my parents have owned about
15 cats in their lifetime (all healthy and beloved animals) including
two perfectly normal persians. The other pet is a dauchtsun (sp)
which had congenital spine issues.

It sounds like a bunch of hit or miss with the classified breeders.
And to touch on that disqualified-pet-owner tone once more, I'm
not interested in spending 12 months infiltrating clubs looking
for the best small time breeder to be put on the next litter waiting
list etc etc etc.

So anyway, the pet store option doesn't look all that bad to me
right now. But I'm not about to buy before I know what I'm really
creating here in terms of keeping the business nice to the animals.

Pet store purchases seem no worse balanced to me than attaining an
animal any other way. Any advice, comments, blunders in my
reasoning, etc?

Opinions welcome. Thanks.





If you are looking for a beagle, finding a responsible breeder who does
health testing and sells on home checks with a contract, your chances are
better of hitting the lottery than finding one. Beagles are bred as a throw
away breed. I'm not giving you direction, but I've been in that search
myself. Of course a There ARE responsible beagle breeders who will not sell
their beagles to a home where they will hunt, which will open your search
to wider horizons than what I had available to me, when i did my search.
Months and months of google searching and going to shows should find you a
decently bred beagle.
  #5  
Old June 14th 05, 04:51 PM
ceb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Brian and Maggie wrote in news:hpCre.61999$887.45738
@tornado.socal.rr.com:

Local Animal Shelter.
Absolutely no beagles of course. Absolutely no puppies of
course.


Where do you live? Our shelters are full of beagles and beagle mixes. And
puppies, there are always puppies.

There are also good beagle rescue groups who would transport a beagle to
the right home. Here's one resource, but you can find plenty of others by
Googling "beagle rescue."

http://www.beagles-on-the-web.com/adopt/

If I wanted a beagle, I would definitely go through a shelter or rescue
group -- there are just too many homeless beagles around!

--
Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Rosalie the calico
  #6  
Old June 14th 05, 05:10 PM
Hey Zeus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mary Healey wrote:
Brian and Maggie wrote :
So pet stores are awful. Yet they have five beagles (dog of
choice) and the beagles look healthy, alert, and playful. This
same store also has a walking policy that allows qualified
walkers (CA drivers license + credit card probably) to socialize
the animal in the mall. That goes to the pet stores credit IMHO.

Alternatives:


OK, I'll play.


You take your games seriously apparently. The guy's looking for
info, not a nut case.

AKC or NBC sanctioned breeders.


Does the AKC actually "sanction" or "approve" breeders?


The National Beagle Club lists breeders. Perhaps your dictionary
is missing the definition of "sanction"?

...Both my wife and I are
college educated. We have great credit. I've been a lifetime
pet owner. In other words, we're barely qualified.


If that. Level of education and credit aren't really relevant to
critter care, are they?


Elite breeders certainly think so.

Have you been a lifetime (life-long?) Beagle
owner, or is your experience with turtles and goldfish?


I'm going
to say something "horrific" that would instantly disqualify me
from owning one of these champion bred pets. They are only
dogs. It's easier to adopt a kid from Romania.


So get a dog from Romania.


Or the petstore. I think that's the entire point.

Local Animal Shelter.
Absolutely no beagles of course.


Today. Try again tomorrow. And the day after.


Some good advice if you work at the animal shelter.

Unfortunately, I could probably adopt a dog of my chosen breed from one
of the local shelters a dozen or more times a year. Maybe not on any
one particular day, but within a week or so. I could certainly find a
dog of my chosen breed in a shelter somewhere in the state any day of
the week.


Write back when you find a beagle at the humane society. Seriously.

Absolutely no puppies of course.


Puppies are over-rated. They grow into dogs, and stay dogs a whole lot
longer.


No socializing advantages to puppies at all? With children? Other
pets?

Classified breeders.
The two classified "pure bred" animals my parents bought years ago
both had problems.


If a breeder generates so little interest in a litter among fellow
fanciers that they resort to classified ads, they're probably not
someone you want to deal with.


So tell him how to find a breeder. He's already taken the high road.
How do breeders advertise? Do breeders expect every single potential
customer to scout out local clubs to make a purchase?

... I'm
not interested in spending 12 months infiltrating clubs looking
for the best small time breeder to be put on the next litter waiting
list etc etc etc.


Your impatience is certainly a character flaw. Why be in such a
freaking hurry to spend the next decade or two in the company of an
animal who isn't what you really wanted, or thought you were getting?


I find it impossibly difficult to believe any private owner spent a
YEAR looking for a pet. Most breeders spend far less time looking
for a bitch.

Besides, this guy is already doing the right thing and asking. Sounds
like he's done some research. Why judge?

Pet store purchases seem no worse balanced to me than attaining an
animal any other way. Any advice, comments, blunders in my
reasoning, etc?


Sure. I've known several pet store puppies post-purchase. The
Dschshund submissively urinated all his life (which ended abruptly under
a car's wheels). The Siamese was aggressive. The Beagles both had
horrific allergies, and the prednisone shortened their lives.


If *I* was going to risk such outcomes, I wouldn't be paying hundreds of
dollars to some puppy mill for the privilege. I'd either select a
breeder who was savvy and reputable enough to understand my concerns and
make some concrete (verifiable) efforts to minimize those risks, or I'd
adopt a dog from a rescue or shelter. In the latter case, the risks are
the same but I'm not financially rewarding the breeder of a carelessly
bred animal.


Again, not much advice and little help. So far, we have: adopt a dog
from Romania and go find a Beagle in the dog pound.

Ultimately, you pays you money and takes your chance. Good luck.


Don't get a dog?

He sounds like a reasonably dedicated owner to me, perhaps with a need
for some guidance.

  #7  
Old June 14th 05, 05:40 PM
Suja
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Brian and Maggie wrote:

Pet store purchases seem no worse balanced to me than attaining an
animal any other way. Any advice, comments, blunders in my
reasoning, etc?


Pet stores don't appeal to me for a couple of reasons. No matter what
they might tell you (some say that they only get puppies from "local
breeders"), they are basically selling carelessly bred puppies from
people who are only out to make a buck. Supporting someone who treats
dogs as if they are livestock basically does not appeal to me.

If I were getting a random bred puppy, and didn't care if they came from
someone who makes sure that the dogs are breed worthy, had appropriate
temperament for the breed and the necessary health clearances, I might
as well get a pup for a whole lot cheaper at the local
rescue/shelter/humane society, etc.

Beagles are very popular dogs, and for much the same reason, there are a
whole lot of them in rescues and shelters everywhere. A search for baby
beagles in my area turned up 123 beagles and beagle mixes (such as this
one: http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4570044). Have you
tried Petfinder yet? If not, you should. They have a fairly
consolidated list of available dogs in shelters around the US and Canada.

I think that waiting a year is a small price to pay for getting a
healthy, good natured dog who will be your companion for the next 10 or
15 years. I know that given a choice, I would want my dogs to be as
healthy as possible, and live as long as possible.

Suja
  #8  
Old June 14th 05, 05:55 PM
ceb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Suja wrote in news:RCDre.40287$iU.37252@lakeread05:

http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4570044


Oh for cryin' out loud, could he be cuter??? Someone stop me from jumping
in my car and driving to Manassas!

--
Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Rosalie the calico
  #9  
Old June 14th 05, 05:59 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:07:57 GMT Brian and Maggie whittled these words:
Plenty of stories exist to scare my wife and I away from pet store
animals. Pet stores encourage bad breeders. Bad breeders create
unhealthy lineage, poor conditions for animals, and a quick buck.
A local pet store sells each pet with a monthly credit payment.
The bottom line price is hidden underneath the credit approval
tag. "Don't care just as long as we get paid."


So pet stores are awful. Yet they have five beagles (dog of
choice) and the beagles look healthy, alert, and playful. This
same store also has a walking policy that allows qualified
walkers (CA drivers license + credit card probably) to socialize
the animal in the mall. That goes to the pet stores credit IMHO.


OK so you are aware you can't tell any of the things that you have been
told are problems by looking at cute puppies in the store, right? So what
exactly have you seen to counter the issues raised? Or do you just not
care about those issues?

What evidence do you see to tell you that the breeders of those
dogs have done anything to improve or maintain genetic health?

What evidence do you have of the living conditions of the parents
of those dogs?

What evidence do you have as to the numbers of puppies it takes to
end up with those apparently healthy puppies?

Of COURSE the puppies look healthy and playful - and that counters
the problems of pet storees not at all.

The most important thing good breeders do is (1) work toward
improving good health and temperament and (2) improve the odds the dog
will not die at publuic expense.

We kill millions of dogs every year. You can be a part of that
killing if you wish. Looks like you do, just as long as you can satisfy
convenience.

Alternatives:


AKC or NBC sanctioned breeders.


AKC doesn't "sanction" breeders. They register dogs. Some are crappy,
some are great. They have recently begun to list breeders which I think
is a mistake as AKC does so little toward those two most important
qualities of breeding I note above. Double those commments for NBC.

As dedicated, if not slightly more grounded, as the cast from
Best of Show. A bit of an ivory tower. Looks like we'll spend
12 months attaining an animal this way. Both my wife and I are
college educated. We have great credit. I've been a lifetime
pet owner. In other words, we're barely qualified. I'm going
to say something "horrific" that would instantly disqualify me
from owning one of these champion bred pets. They are only
dogs. It's easier to adopt a kid from Romania. (In fairness,
I haven't tried finding a dog yet, I'm just going from website
impressions - does anyone have any experience? We only have
one local breeder about 20 miles north of us. She has yet
to respond to me after a week.)


Part of the attitude you get will depend upon the attitude you give. If
you have your mind made up you will likely respond as if your opinion has
been justified regardless of what is actually going on.


Local Animal Shelter.
Absolutely no beagles of course. Absolutely no puppies of
course. Plenty of pit bull adults. Not a good option for my
two year old and my five year old.


Beagles are killed by the hundreds, maybe thousands. It just depends upon
the geographihc area. With little children in the house you are better
off contacting a qualified rescue anyway. And you are MUCH better off
starting with an adult than a puppy. Puppies and small children are a
challenging combination.

Classified breeders.

What the heck is a "classified breeder"?


So anyway, the pet store option doesn't look all that bad to me
right now. But I'm not about to buy before I know what I'm really
creating here in terms of keeping the business nice to the animals.


You already HAVE the information you need in that regard.

Pet store purchases seem no worse balanced to me than attaining an
animal any other way.


The reason we kill millions of dogs a year is because people really don't
give a damn about the fact we kill millions a year. Just as long as they
can get dogs as easily as toasters so they can throw them awaay as easily
as toasters. Are you looking for a companion, or livestock? Livestock are
rasied to be slaughtered, not to form bonds with. Presumably your
relatoinship with a dog is several steps above raised for slaughter - so
why reward breeders who do essentially raise their dogs for slaughter?

To stop the killing people have to CHOOSE to use more selectivity in
getting a dog. As long as the most important factor in selection is
convenience and speed the dog will continue to be disposable.

I have no idea how you will do as a dog owner. Your choices in the time
and effort of acquiring the dog will reflect what you do in terms of
living with the dog.

Any advice, comments, blunders in my
reasoning, etc?


It depends on your ethics. I suggest you focus on Beagle Rescue
organizations.


--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/dogplayshop.htm
  #10  
Old June 14th 05, 06:04 PM
shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

on 2005-06-14 at 16:55 wrote:

Oh for cryin' out loud, could he be cuter??? Someone stop me
from jumping in my car and driving to Manassas!


sweet fancy Jesus! he's so cute it *hurts*. lookit dem eyes.
and dem earses! and that widdle face!

just in case anyone missed the bestest picture (*this* is a
dog i could fall in love with):

http://www.petfinder.org/fotos/VA331...570044-3-x.jpg

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com/ (updated 4/3/05)
 




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