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  #11  
Old March 3rd 06, 04:49 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
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Default Food


Melinda Shore wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
...and Melinda is another Hill's Hater who would rather kill the
messenger because she is unable to kill the message.


The fact is that initially I thought that Science Diet just
didn't work for my dogs - it's not the only one that hasn't,
including some "premium" foods like Solid Gold, so I assumed
it was just one of those things. Then I discovered that
other people had exactly the same problems with it that I
did, and then I discovered that the people who browbeat
anybody who criticizes Science Diet actually work for Hills,
and then I discovered that Hills asserts that ingredients
don't matter, and then I discovered that one of the people
who claims his job is reviewing the research literature for
Hills is completely innumerate. So that's the sequence of
events that led to me having a problem with your employer.


Melinda that's just not true either. You've got a problem with the
truth, don't you? You've been railing against Hill's for years; long
before this "new sequence of events" that you talk about. It's really
too bad that you feel you must be deceitful in order to explain your
argument. It's also amazing how you IGNORE all the positive comments
about Science Diet that are all over the net and in other places. You
are disingenuous at best. (and don't play the victim card, it's really
unbecoming of you)

Since you believe that Steve "posted incomplete information about
corn", then why don't you correct the record? Oh that's right, you
have no or "incomplete" knowledge about the subject. I've been asking
you for a long time what year you allegedly fed Science Diet. You've
never answered the question. (that's the point at which your acolytes
respond; I fully expect that to happen any moment in this thread) I'll
ask it again. EXACTLY WHICH YEAR DID YOU "FEED" SCIENCE DIET?

  #15  
Old March 3rd 06, 05:58 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
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Default Food

In article .com,
says...

Oh boy, here we go again.... sigh

Papa Dog wrote:

In my opinion, its not that great. I think you can do a lot better.
Corn is the second ingredient. This is the #3 cause of alergies in
dogs.


Yup, I have a cite. I'll find it and post it.

Do you have a cite for this or is this only your opinion? I'm very
curious why you think this particular statement is true.

It has Chicken By-products which consist of the rendered, clean
parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, beaks, feet,
undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such
amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Chicken
By-Products are much less expensive and less digestible than Chicken
Meal.





This sounds as if it was written by Nutro. The part about
digestibility is not neccessarily true. Again, do you have any cites
to back this up?


Actually came right from AAFCO.

It has ground whole sorgham. Another grain. Dogs aren't cows.


No, they are omnivores.


Dried beet pulp is just a filler.


Actually, it's a fiber source.


Its a high source of sugar and is used as a filler. Its garbage.




They add Salt, not good for high blood pressure!

You can do a lot better. Just read ingredients. Do some research on
the net. Ask around. If you have any questions for me you can post
here or e-mail me directly.

papa


There's more to nutrition than just reading ingredient panels. That
will not tell you the whole story and will only lead you astray.


I gave my opinion. You gave yours. If its not about good ingredients
then what is it about? I know fat content, fiber, protien and other
things are important, but what they come from is important, at least to
me.

papa
  #17  
Old March 3rd 06, 06:05 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
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Default Food

In article .com,
says...
Papa Dog wrote:
In my opinion, its not that great. I think you can do a lot better.
Corn is the second ingredient. This is the #3 cause of alergies in
dogs.


That is incorrect. Beef, wheat, dairy, lamb, chicken, chicken, chicken
egg, - in descending order - constitute 93% of all known food allergies
in dogs.


That is bullloney!

Corn and soy combined constitute less than 3% of all reported
cases in the literature. (Small Animal Clinical Nutrition IV edition)

Additionally the starch or carbohydrate fraction of corn - like all
grains - is nearly 99% digestible in dogs. The protein fraction of corn
is more digestible than any other grain commonly used in pet foods. J
Anim Sci 1999 Aug;77(8):2180-6 Evaluation of selected high-starch
flours as ingredients in canine diets. Murray SM, Fahey GC Jr, Merchen
NR, Sunvold GD, Reinhart GA. Department of Animal Sciences, University
of Illinois, Urbana 61801, USA.


Corn makes crap, lots of crap. Thats been my experience. If its all
coming out as crap it ain't gettin' used by the dog as nutrients. It
doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.



It has Chicken By-products which consist of the rendered, clean
parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, beaks, feet,
undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such
amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Chicken
By-Products are much less expensive and less digestible than Chicken
Meal.


That is not always true. It is possible to have high quality low ash
poultry by product meal of low ash chicken by product meal that is
substantially more digestible than chicken meal. It depends upon the
quality of the meat meal - low ash = high quality or high ash = low
quality. You cannot tell from looking at the ingedients list what
quality is being used.



It has ground whole sorgham. Another grain. Dogs aren't cows.

Dried beet pulp is just a filler.


That is incorrect. Dried beet pulp is a source of moderately
fermentable fiber and NECESSARY for any healthy dog. Fiber provides the
energy source for gut bacteria survival. Absent this energy source for
gut bacteria the animal will not be able to digest food well. Healthy
bacterial activity in the digestive system are critical to the
assimilation of nutrients.


  #18  
Old March 3rd 06, 06:08 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
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Default Food

In article , says...
On a positive note, she did say that one of your feeds works
well for customers - the light formula. And then she said
"That's not surprising, there's nothing in there."


Now thats funny!

papa
  #20  
Old March 3rd 06, 11:42 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
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Posts: n/a
Default Food


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:
As long as
people out there are going to focus on ingredients over all else (even
nutrition), Hill's will try to actually EDUCATE people about NUTRITION.


Shouldn't they wait until they hire someone who knows about
it?

Just a suggestion.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -


Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.


I wouldn't claim to be an expert on dog foods, per se, but I do believe,
when I have a question, in asking someone who I feel is qualified to answer
the question. When it came to dog food, I touched base with the breeder who
I bought my latest dog from, and my vet. My breeder uses IAMS exclusively,
and recommended that I do the same. Since I paid a great deal of money for
my pup, I took her at her word. When I questioned my vet on IAMS, he was
very quick to point out that it was a high quality dog food.

It isn't true in every case, but I feel that you most often get what you pay
for. Aside from that, I feel that if breeders of expensive dogs and vets
agree that IAMS is a quality dog food, I am ok using it. However, I am
always open to new information. If anyone has ever had a negative
experience with IAMS, I surely would want to hear about it.

Of course, my dogs would really rather have the fried chicken or steak that
I may be eating....naturally....


 




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