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Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test was high....



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 8th 09, 10:35 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Nessa[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test was high....

oh joy,

it starts
Hannah age 7 (next month)
around 66 pounds (needs to lose about 6 pounds)
lab/pit mix
on Phenobarbital twice a day for a long time. (years now)
has been at 75 mg twice a day
had a seizure the end of December
had a seizure the beginning of February

her pheno levels are ok so we are adding the BS stuff. (I can't
remember the name but it's what we've all talked about here) and will
test for those levels in 2 months.

her liver function test shows her elevated to about 300 which is
higher than it should be but not shocking to the vet.

the vet suggested milk thistle for her. 50-250 mg a day is the dose
but the vet said that the dosage amount was up to me.

anyone with anything worthwhile to say have an input?
Nessa
--
trying to be the best human she can,
  #2  
Old February 9th 09, 01:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Tracey K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test washigh....

On Feb 8, 4:35*pm, Nessa wrote:
oh joy,

it starts
Hannah age 7 (next month)
around 66 pounds (needs to lose about 6 pounds)
lab/pit mix
on Phenobarbital twice a day for a long time. (years now)
has been at 75 mg twice a day
had a seizure the end of December
had a seizure the beginning of February

her pheno levels are ok so we are adding the BS stuff. (I can't
remember the name but it's what we've all talked about here) and will
test for those levels in 2 months.

her liver function test shows her elevated to about 300 which is
higher than it should be but not shocking to the vet.

the vet suggested milk thistle for her. 50-250 mg a day is the dose
but the vet said that the dosage amount was up to me.

anyone with anything worthwhile to say *have an input?
Nessa
--
trying to be the best human she can,


I've heard several people use milk thistle for the liver in dogs and
in humans with success. Has she ever had a thyroid panel done?
  #3  
Old February 9th 09, 10:46 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Nessa[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test was high....

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 04:41:37 -0800 (PST), Tracey K
wrote:

On Feb 8, 4:35*pm, Nessa wrote:
oh joy,

it starts
Hannah age 7 (next month)
around 66 pounds (needs to lose about 6 pounds)
lab/pit mix
on Phenobarbital twice a day for a long time. (years now)
has been at 75 mg twice a day
had a seizure the end of December
had a seizure the beginning of February

her pheno levels are ok so we are adding the BS stuff. (I can't
remember the name but it's what we've all talked about here) and will
test for those levels in 2 months.

her liver function test shows her elevated to about 300 which is
higher than it should be but not shocking to the vet.

the vet suggested milk thistle for her. 50-250 mg a day is the dose
but the vet said that the dosage amount was up to me.

anyone with anything worthwhile to say *have an input?
Nessa
--
trying to be the best human she can,


I've heard several people use milk thistle for the liver in dogs and
in humans with success. Has she ever had a thyroid panel done?



no she has not.
my other dog (Bagel) had thyroid issues although I"m betting Harley
does too!

what makes you think she needs a thyroid panel done?
Nessa
--
trying to be the best human she can,
  #4  
Old February 10th 09, 12:01 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Rocky[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test was high....

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

what makes you think she needs a thyroid panel done?


http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Lowthyroid.html

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #5  
Old February 10th 09, 02:48 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
chardonnay9
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test washigh....

Rocky wrote:
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

what makes you think she needs a thyroid panel done?


http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Lowthyroid.html


Dr Dodds is by far the best one to do the testing as well. She fits your
results to other dogs of the same age, breed, and sex for a much better
idea of what is going on. She has a much larger database of test results
than a local vet could ever have.

You would get a much more accurate picture of problems.
  #6  
Old February 15th 09, 06:12 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Dale Atkin
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Posts: 324
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test was high....



"Rocky" wrote in message
...
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

what makes you think she needs a thyroid panel done?


http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Lowthyroid.html


I find these statements a little bit disturbing in this page:

"There are more than 50 different symptoms of hypothyroidism. Classical
signs include chronic skin disease, hair loss, weight gain, lethargy and
slow metabolism, although behavioral changes (aggression, hyperactivity,
poor concentration, passivity, phobias, anxiety or neuromuscular events such
as seizures), and many other signs of metabolic imbalances also can occur.
This condition can mimic other disorders....Only one symptom may be present
to suspect low thyroid function. Seizures can be a symptom of thyroid
imbalance, which warrants performing a full thyroid panel...Only one symptom
may be present to suspect low thyroid function. Seizures can be a symptom of
thyroid imbalance, which warrants performing a full thyroid panel."

So basically anything can be a sign of hypothyroidism, and only one of these
symptoms need to be present to warrant running a 6-panel thyroid panel.
Combine this with the fact that (if I recall correctly) only she (and one
other lab) will do the 6 panel thyroid test, and I find this advice a
disturbing conflict of interest.

Any test is going to have a false positive/false negative rate. There is
also going to be spontaneous waxing and waning of symptoms (and a
non-spontaneous placebo effect as well).

The data that I've seen (and the veterinary epidemiologists I've spoken to
about it) would support the conclusion that she is likely to be putting a
lot of dogs on thyroid meds that don't need it.

Dale


  #7  
Old February 15th 09, 06:36 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test was high....

In article X1Yll.12264$PH1.9802@edtnps82,
Dale Atkin wrote:
The data that I've seen (and the veterinary epidemiologists I've spoken to
about it) would support the conclusion that she is likely to be putting a
lot of dogs on thyroid meds that don't need it.


I think you're being exceedingly sloppy in your use of
"likely," here. What's the actual false positive rate?

I do know that there's research that's been published in the
last several years finding that in Alaskan Huskies T3 and T4
can be low when the dog is not hypothyroid, but TSH will
be high. But so far that's just been found to be the case
in Alaskan Huskies, and again, TSH will be high in
hypothyroid dogs.

So what's the actual false positive rate, Dale?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #8  
Old February 10th 09, 12:10 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Nessa[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test was high....

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 04:41:37 -0800 (PST), Tracey K
wrote:

On Feb 8, 4:35*pm, Nessa wrote:
oh joy,

it starts
Hannah age 7 (next month)
around 66 pounds (needs to lose about 6 pounds)
lab/pit mix
on Phenobarbital twice a day for a long time. (years now)
has been at 75 mg twice a day
had a seizure the end of December
had a seizure the beginning of February

her pheno levels are ok so we are adding the BS stuff. (I can't
remember the name but it's what we've all talked about here) and will
test for those levels in 2 months.

her liver function test shows her elevated to about 300 which is
higher than it should be but not shocking to the vet.

the vet suggested milk thistle for her. 50-250 mg a day is the dose
but the vet said that the dosage amount was up to me.

anyone with anything worthwhile to say *have an input?
Nessa
--
trying to be the best human she can,


I've heard several people use milk thistle for the liver in dogs and
in humans with success. Has she ever had a thyroid panel done?



no she has not.
my other dog (Bagel) had thyroid issues although I"m betting Harley
does too!

what makes you think she needs a thyroid panel done?
Nessa
--
trying to be the best human she can,
  #9  
Old February 9th 09, 02:50 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
FurPaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,469
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test washigh....

Nessa wrote:

the vet suggested milk thistle for her. 50-250 mg a day is the dose
but the vet said that the dosage amount was up to me.

anyone with anything worthwhile to say have an input?


I have no idea if you will deem this worthwhile, but here it is:

Google is your friend, but beware - you will find a lot of sites
that say "it is said that."

However, unlike many herbal preparations, there are a lot of
studies of silymarin (milk thistle extract). There is evidence
that silymarin is liver-protective in humans, rats and canines.
Search Pubmed for more information:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez,
for example,
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cf2c74

It's a shame that your vet can't be more specific w/r/t dosage,
but as far as I know (and remember I'm just some random stranger
on the internet), there isn't much evidence of silymarin damage
at even fairly high doses.

FurPaw

--
Don't believe everything that you think.

To reply, unleash the dog.
  #10  
Old February 9th 09, 04:20 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Nessa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 317
Default Blood Work for a dog with Seizures.. or Hannah's liver test washigh....

On Feb 9, 8:50*am, FurPaw wrote:
Nessa wrote:
the vet suggested milk thistle for her. 50-250 mg a day is the dose
but the vet said that the dosage amount was up to me.


anyone with anything worthwhile to say *have an input?


I have no idea if you will deem this worthwhile, but here it is:

Google is your friend, but beware - you will find a lot of sites
that say "it is said that."

However, unlike many herbal preparations, there are a lot of
studies of silymarin (milk thistle extract). There is evidence
that silymarin is liver-protective in humans, rats and canines.
Search Pubmed for more information:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez,
for example,http://preview.tinyurl.com/cf2c74

It's a shame that your vet can't be more specific w/r/t dosage,
but as far as I know (and remember I'm just some random stranger
on the internet), there isn't much evidence of silymarin damage
at even fairly high doses.

FurPaw

--
Don't believe everything that you think.

To reply, unleash the dog.


Furpaw you are always helpful.

AT LEAST my vet gave me the idea!
 




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