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Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 28th 09, 09:17 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities,rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Robin Nuttall
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Posts: 1,344
Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)

We had a really fun 4-day AKC trial just East of St. Louis this past
weekend. Zipper is really starting to put things together. In Standard,
we're still having a bobble here and there, but he nailed 3 out of 4
Jumpers with Weaves runs for his first 3 MXJ legs and his first MACH
points. He still needs two legs for his AX, and I'll be happy when that
happens and we can start working toward Double Qs.

I have a few things to work on, namely calling him into me and (yet
still) front crosses, especially landing side front crosses. Twice he
slid around the jump when I tried one. He and I both tend to like me
handling from the rear, but I noticed a couple of spots where I was
slowing up to let him get in front, which of course meant he slowed down
too.

On Thursday's Standard course I told myself NOT to call him from the
tunnel to the table since I've never trained it. Did it anyway. Idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdordSHvpxk

Jumpers was good even with slow weaves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdordSHvpxk

Friday Standard, he finally, on the second try, really sped up his
weaves and started slaloming. If I could get that on a first try...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEAlnStyLEY

Saturday Standard was by far his worst and most stressy run. Dodging out
at the aframe is one of his signs, but there was also just something on
that side of the ring he wanted to get at, hence the dodge to the right
after that first jump in the 270. But he nailed that very difficult
opening sequence, which was a Q-killer. I have no idea what the teeter
thing was about, he never does that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyDgljS-GYM


  #2  
Old July 30th 09, 05:05 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
sionnach
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Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)


"Robin Nuttall" wrote:

He's looking good! :-) And congrats on the MACH points.



I have no idea what the teeter thing was about, he never does that.


I noticed in the first video that the teeter bounced back up when it hit,
and that he left it by jumping upward rather than running off the end. In
the second video, the teeter *stand* appears to come up off the floor at the
back. I'm betting he was feeling the entire teeter shift & not sure whether
he should stay on.



  #3  
Old July 30th 09, 01:45 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
Robin Nuttall
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Posts: 1,344
Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)

sionnach wrote:
"Robin Nuttall" wrote:

He's looking good! :-) And congrats on the MACH points.



I have no idea what the teeter thing was about, he never does that.



I noticed in the first video that the teeter bounced back up when it hit,
and that he left it by jumping upward rather than running off the end. In
the second video, the teeter *stand* appears to come up off the floor at the
back. I'm betting he was feeling the entire teeter shift & not sure whether
he should stay on.


Could be, though it's the same type of (really crappy, don't ever get a
J&J teeter) we have at our building so he's used to that kind of thing.
  #4  
Old July 31st 09, 03:09 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
sionnach
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Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)


"Robin Nuttall" wrote:

Could be, though it's the same type of (really crappy, don't ever get a
J&J teeter) we have at our building so he's used to that kind of thing.


Heh. While watching those videos, I did think "Who the heck made that
crappy teeter??".

Since I'm on my second wee little dog, and had FAR too many problems with
various crappy &/or downright dangerous teeter designs with the first, I
remain happy with Sharon's decision to remove the teeter from NADAC
competition. Cen's being taught to do one, of course, but I don't at all
miss having to worry with each new trial whether my dog's going to get
bounced, find the teeter too heavy to do as regulations dictate, etc. etc.,
and/or having to forego trials because I know the club has bad teeters.
Nor do I miss holding my breath while watching other people's dogs who've
been trained to do teeters in what I consider highly unsafe ways, all in the
pursuit of speed speed speed...


  #5  
Old July 31st 09, 03:51 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
Robin Nuttall
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Posts: 1,344
Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)

sionnach wrote:


Since I'm on my second wee little dog, and had FAR too many problems with
various crappy &/or downright dangerous teeter designs with the first, I
remain happy with Sharon's decision to remove the teeter from NADAC
competition. Cen's being taught to do one, of course, but I don't at all
miss having to worry with each new trial whether my dog's going to get
bounced, find the teeter too heavy to do as regulations dictate, etc. etc.,
and/or having to forego trials because I know the club has bad teeters.
Nor do I miss holding my breath while watching other people's dogs who've
been trained to do teeters in what I consider highly unsafe ways, all in the
pursuit of speed speed speed...


I think teeters need to be standardized in some way, though I don't
agree with Sharon removing them; I visualize NADAC getting down,
someday, to being just a bunch of bars flat on the ground and nothing else.

Generally teeters are one of Zip's favorite things. I honestly think in
this case he was looking at something on the ground he wanted to get to,
because he's fearless on moving surfaces. I do teach him to drop the
thing then trot off which yes, takes longer. But I don't give a flying
rip about that.

I actually thought that though the teeter was crappy, the dogwalk was
the real problem at this trial. It had been so long since it had been
resurfaced it was glossy. Lots of scrambles and several falls. I wrote
them after the trial and STRONGLY suggested they resurface it before the
next trial, along with their table.
  #6  
Old August 3rd 09, 08:12 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
Rocky[_2_]
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Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)

Robin Nuttall said in
rec.pets.dogs.activities:

I think teeters need to be standardized in some way


Our rules specify the height of the pivot point and that it take
3 seconds to fully tip when a 3 pound weight is placed two feet
from the downside end. I've rejected teeters in the past, as
well as dogwalks and A-Frames because of grip.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #7  
Old August 3rd 09, 09:19 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
sionnach
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Posts: 825
Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)


"Rocky" said:

Our rules specify the height of the pivot point and that it take
3 seconds to fully tip when a 3 pound weight is placed two feet
from the downside end.


Which is essentially useless in terms of safety for small dogs, since it
doesn't prevent the teeter from bouncing when it hits the ground -
especially if your dog weighs MORE than 3 lbs & the teeter tips faster - nor
from rising back up under the dog's feet as s/he leaves. The latter is
extremely dangerous for small dogs, and was generally why Rocsi would start
jumping sideways off a teeter after she'd ridden it down.


  #8  
Old August 3rd 09, 09:40 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
Robin Nuttall
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Posts: 1,344
Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)

Rocky wrote:
Robin Nuttall said in
rec.pets.dogs.activities:


I think teeters need to be standardized in some way



Our rules specify the height of the pivot point and that it take
3 seconds to fully tip when a 3 pound weight is placed two feet
from the downside end. I've rejected teeters in the past, as
well as dogwalks and A-Frames because of grip.


Our rules are the exact same as yours. However, those specifications
don't account for things like stiffness, base weight/construction, rate
and point of drop, and board whip.

The teeter used at that trial is perfectly legal, but has a light base.
Any fast dog hitting it is going to cause it to buck, even weighted.
I've seen teeters walk several feet and buck up over a foot into the
air. And depending on the construction of the board, board whip can
literally fling a dog back up in the air. It's not pretty.
  #9  
Old August 4th 09, 12:40 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
Rocky[_2_]
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Posts: 2,421
Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)

"sionnach" said in
rec.pets.dogs.activities:

"Rocky" said:

Our rules specify the height of the pivot point and that
it take 3 seconds to fully tip when a 3 pound weight is
placed two feet from the downside end.


Which is essentially useless in terms of safety for small
dogs, since it
doesn't prevent the teeter from bouncing when it hits the
ground - especially if your dog weighs MORE than 3 lbs &
the teeter tips faster - nor from rising back up under the
dog's feet as s/he leaves. The latter is extremely
dangerous for small dogs, and was generally why Rocsi would
start jumping sideways off a teeter after she'd ridden it
down.


I've judged tens of thousands of dogs on the teeter and have
never seen a problem with properly-trained small or large dogs
when the teeter meets the minor specs I mentioned. Of course,
AAC trials are not held on hard surfaces.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #10  
Old August 4th 09, 03:21 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.activities
Robin Nuttall
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Posts: 1,344
Default Zipper's first MACH points (and video links)

Rocky wrote:
"sionnach" said in
rec.pets.dogs.activities:



I've judged tens of thousands of dogs on the teeter and have
never seen a problem with properly-trained small or large dogs
when the teeter meets the minor specs I mentioned. Of course,
AAC trials are not held on hard surfaces.


It could also be that the teeters usually seen at your trials are
heavier than those seen at our trials. I'd be fairly surprised to hear
the teeter performances substantially differ, but maybe so.

And to be clear, very few agility trials in the U.S. are held on hard
surfaces. I'm not sure what you mean by hard surface, but to me it would
mean concrete or concrete with thin mats, or something like hotel
carpeting over concrete. We do hold trials on field turf, cushioned
soccer turf (which is where Zipper was in those videos), and on surfaces
like our facility, which is 3/4" recycled rubber matting over 6' of
crushed lime. All of which can be excellent surfaces for the dogs but
are not dirt or grass, which a teeter could actually be staked down into.

On surfaces where the teeter cannot actually be staked, it will often
buck if not balanced properly. If you have never seen a dog thrown off a
teeter as a judge my hat is off to you, I've seen it happen in grass,
dirt, and on the surfaces I described above. Worst teeter I ever saw was
on grass, a late pivot with a very fast drop and a lot of board whip
meant dogs were spinning off like crazy.

It's enough of an issue that Monica Percival has been advocating through
Clean Run for a standardization of teeters for quite some time. As it is
now, at least in the U.S., there's huge variability in rate of drop and
amount of board whip as well as overall stability of the obstacle, both
with shimmying from side to side and bucking. A dog literally never
knows what he's going to encounter when he gets on one, except that it
will be different.
 




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