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Coat Color Related Question



 
 
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  #31  
Old August 16th 06, 05:14 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 2
Default Coat Color Related Question Schnauzers

Back Yard breeder .. No .. my dogs do not live in the back yard lol..
Occasional Breeder ??.. OK.. there is nothing magical about my dogs..
they simply come from verry pure german lines we imported years ago
from a long established credible kennel in germany.. and YES we went to
Germany to see for ourselves what we were bringing in for our breeding
program... responsible breeder.. yes I would like to think so .. as for
health and temperment testing... yes we screen breeding parents for
anything my vet feels should be tested for.. we are not intrested in
registering or showing either as you are right it is to laugh...In
order to refine an existing type is fine .. but where did the existing
type come from ?? all dogs are descended from wolves so if there was
not cross breeding where did all todays breeds come from .. CROSS
BREEDING and NO the world is not flat.. I am done now you are wayyy 2
critical and I think you are enjoying this wayyy 2 much.. I am not here
to try and sell my pups.. they sell just fine and one look and you can
see they are quality dogs and go everywhere with us.. they are well
cared for and loved beyond imagination.. we have a long waiting list
most litters are sold out before they are born.. so I really do not
need to justify my self here to you.. Thank You Come again.. I sure as
hell wont
shelly wrote:
Bubba Dogs wrote:
all breeds have genetic failings of one kind or another.. as with white
boxers white mini schnauzers are SUPOSEDLY riddled with genetic
failings as well... I am NOT a puppy mill I have 3 dogs I breed and ALL
live in home with me they are all 3 out of EXTREAMLY PURE Lines..


Then you could be described as a mini-mill or a back yard breeder.
You certainly aren't what I would call a *responsible* breeder, as
you apparently do no health or temperament testing.

the
kennel club will most certainly register your "OFF" color dog with out
a problem.. you simply cannot show the dog as it is unacceptable..


Thank you, but I am not interested in registering or showing my dog.
(It is for to laugh!)

imagine our suprise when 3 generations later of our imported lines they
threw us a Choclate Parti Color.. ?? WHY??? ..


Beats me. Is there something magical about your dogs being
imported? I only ask, because you've mentioned it multiple times,
as if it mattered.

wellll how did Mini
schnauzers Or any other breed come about?? CROSS BREEDING thats how..


Not necessarily true. Many breeds were developed by refining
existing types.

I
beleive the "Chocolate or liver as some call it comes from one of the
smaller breeds used to "Create" the Mini Schnauzer.. any one ever hear
of "Genetic Throw Back" ?????


Some people believe the Earth is flat.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)


  #32  
Old August 16th 06, 05:18 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 7,732
Default Coat Color Related Question Schnauzers

In article . com,
Bubba Dogs wrote:
we are not intrested in
registering or showing either as you are right it is to laugh


I, for one, am delighted to see someone taking the situation
in hand, stepping up, and doing something about the dreadful
problem of the shortage of sloppily-bred dogs.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.
  #33  
Old August 16th 06, 05:36 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 6,155
Default Coat Color Related Question Schnauzers

Bubba Dogs wrote:
Back Yard breeder .. No .. my dogs do not live in the back yard lol..


I didn't say they did.

Occasional Breeder ??.. OK.. there is nothing magical about my dogs..
they simply come from verry pure german lines we imported years ago


Very pure *what*?

from a long established credible kennel in germany.. and YES we went to
Germany to see for ourselves what we were bringing in for our breeding
program... responsible breeder.. yes I would like to think so ..


I would like to think all sorts of things, but I'm clueful enough to
know that wishing doesn't make it so.

as for
health and temperment testing... yes we screen breeding parents for
anything my vet feels should be tested for..


Which things would those be?

we are not intrested in
registering or showing either as you are right it is to laugh...


That, too, is not exactly what I said. Registering and showing *my*
dog would be laughable. That is not to say that breed registration
and conformation showing are worthless endeavors.

In
order to refine an existing type is fine .. but where did the existing
type come from ?? all dogs are descended from wolves so if there was
not cross breeding where did all todays breeds come from ..


If all dogs descended from wolves, then early dog breeds, of
necessity, were created by refinement, not cross-breeding. Logic much?

I am done now you are wayyy 2 critical


And U are not Prince. HTH!

and I think you are enjoying this wayyy 2 much..


No, not *too* much.

one look and you can see they are quality dogs


Yes, but *what* quality?

we have a long waiting list
most litters are sold out before they are born..


There is, alas, no shortage of ignorant and careless people.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #34  
Old August 16th 06, 05:42 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 407
Default Coat Color Related Question Schnauzers

"Bubba Dogs" wrote in
oups.com:

... I am NOT a puppy mill I have 3 dogs I breed and
ALL live in home with me they are all 3 out of EXTREAMLY PURE Lines..


I am not a puppy mill, either. I have 3 dogs I do NOT breed and all live
"in home" with me; they are all out of shelters or rescue situations.

So what?

imagine our suprise when 3 generations later of our imported lines
they threw us a Choclate Parti Color.. ?? WHY??? .. wellll how did
Mini schnauzers Or any other breed come about?? CROSS BREEDING thats
how..


Are you saying that the dogs you imported were not purebred? Because
that's surely what it sounds like. Is that why you breed unregistered
dogs?

  #35  
Old August 16th 06, 05:47 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 6,155
Default Coat Color Related Question Schnauzers

Mary Healey wrote:

Are you saying that the dogs you imported were not purebred? Because
that's surely what it sounds like. Is that why you breed unregistered
dogs?


I think she's saying that they are extremely pure cross-breds.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #36  
Old August 16th 06, 06:00 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 6,155
Default Coat Color Related Question Schnauzers

diddy wrote:

yep 100% canis familiaris. Doesn't get any more "extremely pure" than
that. No proof of testing to prevent genetic cesspools..but Oh Well!


Well, they go everywhere with her, which is all that matters, right?
Aside from the pretty colors, of course.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #37  
Old August 16th 06, 07:07 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 407
Default Coat Color Related Question Schnauzers

diddy wrote in
:

...To be a responsible breeder,you screen your breeding stock
and provide that information to the breeders you obtain your stock
from, and to any owners from that siblings litter.


As Diane has often noted, different breeds seem to have different
cultures wrt health and other testing.

I used the Norwegian Elkhound, the ACD, and the Boxer to compare against
the Miniature Schnauzer. I searched the AKC and OFA sites for summary
information.

Miniature Schnauzers were ranked 10th in numbers registered with the AKC
in 2005, 24,144 dogs from 12,763 litters. In 2005, 194 Min. Schnauzers
became breed champions (Ch), 38 earned a CD, and 1 earned a TD. A
*total* of 79 Min. Schnauzers have health-testing information listed in
the searchable OFA database. More dogs might have been tested and not
listed, but they're bloody useless for generating an accurate impression
of the overall breed health and the commitment breeders have towards the
health of their breed. They were unranked wrt hip dysplasia because
breeds with fewer than 100 evaluations are not ranked.

Boxers ranked 5th in registrations, 37,268 dogs from 14,722 litters.
262 Ch; 46 CD; 3 TD. The OFA database lists 5690 Boxers with health
tests, 3939 hip evaluations (10.6% dysplastic). They rank 3rd for
number of thyroid tests (297).

ACDs ranked 70th in registrations, 1,441 dogs from 614 litters. 134 Ch;
51 CD. ACDs rank 2nd in BAER hearing tests (after Dalmatians), and 1st
in PRA testing. A total of 4960 animals appear in the OFA database
(14.3% dysplastic).

Norwegian Elkhounds ranked 96th in registrations, with 669 dogs from 308
litters. 75 Ch; 5 CD; 1 TD. 3273 Elkhounds appear in the searchable
OFA database (19.8% dysplastic).

Despite the relative rarity of ACDs and Elkhounds, the prevailing
culture has become one of "test and disclose". Obviously, that's not
the predominant attitude of Miniature Schnauzer breeders.
  #38  
Old August 17th 06, 04:58 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 3
Default Coat Color Related Question Schnauzers

Hi,

That was the strange thing about her. He did mostly hand-stripping.
I've seen some of those yellowed Schnauzers (now I hope no one tries to
sell them as "rare Golden Schnauzers"!) but he said he had puppy
pictures that showed her the same color forever, short or long hair.
It was like she never had any gray or black (except those occasional
guard hairs). I've seen quite a few Schnauzers around but she was the
only one I'd ever seen like that. I even saw an 8-week-old pup that
had yellowing but she looked totally different. For a distance she
looked like a wheaten Cairn cross, or something similar.

Interesting.

kc
Toni wrote:
"djnorth" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I suspect you're correct that most of these Schnauzer colors are the
result of unscrupulous breeding. I did see one, though, that I'm not
too sure about.

I met a guy about 20 years ago who had a spayed female Schnauzer that
would be considered tan in many breeds. She almost had the color of my
fawn Pug, who is pretty light. There were a few black guard hairs
there as well. He said they called it "champagne" but he got her with
a mandatory spay contract because of her color. He was fine with that
because, well, he seemed pretty ethical.




Many salt % pepper Schnauzers have a distinctly yellow undercoat. With
repeated clippering (as opposed to hand stripping) the topcoat ceases to
grow and the yellow undercoat takes over.

Maybe this is what you saw? Some of them are *very* yellow/tan.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/rules.htm


  #39  
Old August 20th 06, 06:54 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.breeds
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Posts: 9
Default Coat Color Related Question


Liisa Sarakontu wrote:
"Suja" wrote in
news:kzqAg.84941$ZW3.67471@dukeread04:

How and why are "acceptable" colors within a breed established? I
understand the necessity to specify that some colors are DQ due to
potential color linked health problems (like problems with breeding
merles and piebalds). But what about the rest? Is it aesthetics,
history, what?


In many cases it is history. Most modern dog breeds are based on a certain
local dog population, a landrace. In the time of very little travelling a
local dog population normally came in just a rather small selection of
colors. Sometimes they were the colors which were best suited to a certain
use, and sometimes they just happened to be what they were.



Lhasa Apsos, a relatively primitive landrace breed, allow any color,
but black nose is required for competition. Brown (self-colored), even
on a brown dog, is a DQ. The only reason I can see for this is that
someone, somewhere decided. The self color gene is in the native race
and thus in the gene pool, so why should it matter? It shouldn't. But
since it does, breeders who show have to put some energy and worry into
..... nose color! I wonder ... are the genes of excellent, healthy
dogs being lost to the population because of .... nose color??? Where
is the eye rolling emoticon?

Don't get me started on Quarter horses ....

 




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