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#11
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purebred doberman pinscher pups for sale(arizona)
Chuck U. Farley wrote:
At 8 weeks? And you think that's _good_? It's obvious you don't know Well, balancing the "fear imprint period" which doesn't necessarily mean anything, versus the chances of these backyard bred Dobes being sold to I would beg to differ about the fear imprint period not meaning anything, especially in Dobe's. Dobermans don't have a "magic" fear period that is somehow different and unique from any other breed. Further, if an individual dog does go through a fear period it can happen at any time. And yet further still, I don't see how getting an operation would make that period any better or worse one way or the other. With the few I've had who have gone through a phase like this I've ignored it and carried on with life as usual. My only point is that anyone who would spay an 8 week old Dobe obviously has no earthly idea what they're doing anyway and that anyone who would think "at least they're spayed or neutered" would be a _good_ thing in such a situation, well they would be just as ignorant as the op for posting this on Usenet. I'm very much against early spay/neuter of ANY dog of ANY breed. However, in cases where the dogs might be used for breeding later on by idiots, yep, the early spay is better than the consequences. Oh and I don't know you, but I've had dobermans since 1982... |
#12
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purebred doberman pinscher pups for sale(arizona)
"Chuck U. Farley" wrote in message ... I would beg to differ about the fear imprint period not meaning anything, especially in Dobe's. I haven't raised any Dobes (note the proper plurality there, BTW.) But I've raised several puppies of other breeds, primarily Shelties, and have not found there to be much truth in the "fear period" theory. We'll have to agree to disagree. So you think a byb is actually going to spend the money to neuter 8 week old puppies? Does that make sense in your world? Hey, the original poster made the original claim, why would I argue? No, most BYBs won't do that, but I wasn't debating that point. Since the sole motivation for a byb is to _make_ money, it doesn't stand to reason they're going to _spend_ money neutering them. A point the op's f/u proved. And your point is...? My only point is that anyone who would spay an 8 week old Dobe obviously has no earthly idea what they're doing anyway and that anyone who would think "at least they're spayed or neutered" would be a _good_ thing in such a situation, well they would be just as ignorant as the op for posting this on Usenet. Sorry, I'll stand by my belief that early speuter is a good thing when dealing with poorly bred and poorly placed dogs, whether they be purebred or mutts. You can call me ignorant if you wish, but I think that terminology falls right back at ya. Christy |
#13
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purebred doberman pinscher pups for sale(arizona)
"Chuck U. Farley" wrote in message ... So you think a byb is actually going to spend the money to neuter 8 week old puppies? Does that make sense in your world? I didn't see anyone argung that point at all. This doesn't make sense. Since the sole motivation for a byb is to _make_ money, it doesn't stand to reason they're going to _spend_ money neutering them. A point the op's f/u proved. Actually, the "sole" reason for a byb to breed is not one thing. There are many and varied reasons. In my experience, the ego breeding far surpasses the breeding for monetary purposes. In fact, making the breeding more expensive could fool an ignorant ego breeder into thinking they are actually being responsible about it. anyone who would think "at least they're spayed or neutered" would be a _good_ thing in such a situation, well they would be just as ignorant as the op for posting this on Usenet. I'm going to call that bullshit for what it is. Intelligent people can disagree without being called ignorant. And you happen to be arguing with some highly intelligent, and experienced, people....some of whom have been involved in Dobes for decades. Tara |
#14
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purebred doberman pinscher pups for sale(arizona)
Dobermans don't have a "magic" fear period that is somehow different and
unique from any other breed. Further, if an individual dog does go through a fear period it can happen at any time. And yet further still, From http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm : During the Socialization period, there is a fear imprint period from 8 - 11 weeks. During this time, any traumatic, painful or frightening experiences will have a more lasting impact on your pup than they would if they occurred at any other time. Since one of major problems with dobes (not the correct punctuation the anal-retentives) is fear biting and since they can do so much damage as adults, avoiding a fear imprint is vital during this period. Since the number one cause of dogbites is fear biting, avoiding that will do more to assure the dog won't end up in the shelter than anything else. I don't see how getting an operation would make that period any better or worse one way or the other. With the few I've had who have gone through a phase like this I've ignored it and carried on with life as usual. If you don't see how having a major operation on a puppy 6-8 weeks old could adversely affect it, I can see how easy it would be for you to "ignore" other vital developmental aspects as well. My only point is that anyone who would spay an 8 week old Dobe obviously has no earthly idea what they're doing anyway and that anyone who would think "at least they're spayed or neutered" would be a _good_ thing in such a situation, well they would be just as ignorant as the op for posting this on Usenet. I'm very much against early spay/neuter of ANY dog of ANY breed. A point we can agree on. However, in cases where the dogs might be used for breeding later on by idiots, yep, the early spay is better than the consequences. And what makes you think that will happen in this case? Oh and I don't know you, but I've had dobermans since 1982... So I guess that makes you an expert? I can certainly tell this ng is populated with lots of "experts". Sorry, I'll stand by my belief that early speuter is a good thing when dealing with poorly bred and poorly placed dogs, whether they be purebred or mutts. You can call me ignorant if you wish, but I think that terminology falls right back at ya. And exactly how do you know these puppies are poorly bred and will be poorly placed? I'll also stand by my belief that major surgery on an 8 week old puppy in most assuredly _not_ a good thing, in _any_ circumstance. many and varied reasons. In my experience, the ego breeding far surpasses the breeding for monetary purposes. In fact, making the breeding more Then you and I have vastly differing experiences. Intelligent people can disagree without being called ignorant. And you happen to be arguing with some highly intelligent, and experienced, people....some of whom have been involved in Dobes for decades. All of whom see to think it's quite acceptable to have an 8 week old puppy undergo major surgery because of something that they imagine _might_ happen in the future. I'll mosey on my way now and leave the "experts" to pat themselves on the back and tell each other how "intelligent" they are. |
#15
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purebred doberman pinscher pups for sale(arizona)
Chuck U. Farley wrote:
Dobermans don't have a "magic" fear period that is somehow different and unique from any other breed. Further, if an individual dog does go through a fear period it can happen at any time. And yet further still, From http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm : Read it, it's mostly hogwash and old wives tales. During the Socialization period, there is a fear imprint period from 8 - 11 weeks. During this time, any traumatic, painful or frightening experiences will have a more lasting impact on your pup than they would if they occurred at any other time. Do you always believe everything you read? Since one of major problems with dobes (not the correct punctuation the anal-retentives) is fear biting and since they can do so much damage as adults, avoiding a fear imprint is vital during this period. Since the number one cause of dogbites is fear biting, avoiding that will do more to assure the dog won't end up in the shelter than anything else. Um, no, Dobermans do not have a major problem with fear biting--or biting at all. In fact, the doberman temperament, even in pet quality dogs, is generally not the fear biting type. Oh and I don't know you, but I've had dobermans since 1982... So I guess that makes you an expert? I can certainly tell this ng is populated with lots of "experts". Actually yes, it does. While there's always more to learn, I have been a seriousl student of the breed over the past 20+ years. Have belonged to the DPCA and UDC and served on various committes of each, including rescue, longevity, etc. Have shown, and titled, dobermans in agility, obedience, and rally as well as conformation. Have had a doberman in the agility Top 20. Have a doberman who won the Purina Incredible Dog Challenge 60-weave last year. Make an intensive study of temperaments, structure, and pedigrees. I'd say yep, it's a fairly good chance I know more about them than you do. I'll mosey on my way now and leave the "experts" to pat themselves on the back and tell each other how "intelligent" they are. Get along, little doggie. |
#16
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purebred doberman pinscher pups for sale(arizona)
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:06:14 GMT, Robin Nuttall
wrote: So I guess that makes you an expert? I can certainly tell this ng is populated with lots of "experts". Actually yes, it does. Well, I know who *I* would go to if I were in need of Dobe info. And it would not be Chuck or some random website. -- Shelly http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship) http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther) What I say is that, if a fellow really likes potatoes, he must be a pretty decent sort of fellow. -- A.A. Milne |
#17
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purebred doberman pinscher pups for sale(arizona)
"Chuck U. Farley" wrote in message . .. And exactly how do you know these puppies are poorly bred and will be poorly placed? As far as placement, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that selling via Usenet newsgroups isn't a particularly good way to find appropriate homes. The internet is not generally a medium for placing puppies responsibly and most responsible breeders do not need to advertise in this manner. They may make connections with potential homes via websites but those are normally used for information purposes and any interviewing, home checks etc. are done subsequently. What indications do you have that these puppies are NOT poorly bred? The ad has huge red flags and zero indication of responsibility. A "friend" is advertising them. There is no mention of anything done to prove breeding quality - no show or working titles, no health testing. Just puppies and price. This is not how a responsible breeder offers information on a litter. I can't say you'll be missed when you go, Chuck. It isn't like you came in here interested in conversation, except maybe about the huge chip on your shoulder. Christy |
#18
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