If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Offended a Breeder
I forgot to post this a while back. I just remembered it because I was
sending an inquiry to a Lab breeder I haven't previously corresponded with. We've been researching kennels/lines for our next Lab for quite a while now. We've been approved by several breeders but for one reason or another, the litters that have hit the ground were not ones we ended up purchasing from. Our specifications: 1. Excellent, line proven, companion pet temperaments 2. OFA Excellent (will accept Good) on hips, elbows done & CERF 3. No history of PRA or severe allergies 4. Male 5. Light yellow to white BTW, the breeders I've been dealing with are primarily show breeders but most are also dual-purpose breeders. All litters have at least one Ch. parent and pedigrees on both sides from prominent, championship lines. IOW we're looking for the blocky, shorter, thicker type Lab. I have purposely stayed away from working line breeders because the conformation is not to my liking and (more importantly) I don't want a dog with extremely high drive because at most we'll be doing obedience work but certainly not hunting/retrieving at this time. Of the breeders I've spoken and written to the most, I have found nothing wrong with any of them and would feel quite comfortable entering into a relationship with them. We are still researching a few other kennels though so after writing an email tonight, I remembered something from a couple of months ago. I emailed a well-known breeder of Champion dogs, years of experience, to inquire about an upcoming litter. I wanted to know the health history in terms of genetic defects, how many of the pups usually end up going to pet-homes, the health guarantee and the return policy. I was very detailed in the reason I was asking the questions, making it well-known that I'd done my research and this was not a "how much are your puppies and when can I have one" email. I received a response that was fairly curt in tone and was scolded for having asked about the return contract. I was told that the very fact that I would ask about a return contract shows that I'm not committed enough to a well-bred puppy to qualify for one from her breeding and that I gave the distinct impression that I would return the dog over the slightest thing. I emailed her back and said that I was interviewing her, which is my right as an informed buyer, and that I wanted to know about all the provisions in place as well as the history before deciding that she was someone I'd enjoy having a breeder/buyer relationship with. I explained that I'm in rescue for a different breed and that being asked such questions in advance is always a sign, to me, that the prospective adopter has given this alot of thought. I told her that I was sorry if she was offended but that in return, I felt offended for asking perfectly legitimate questions. I never got a response to that. I honestly put nothing in that email that would intimate that I had intentions of returning a pup and that I was half-hearted about getting and raising a Lab. I didn't even know how much her pups were and didn't ask. Does anyone else here think that her response was understandable? I should also mention that I got no answers to my other questions except "all of our dogs are proven healthy". -- Tara |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
I wrote:
thought. I told her that I was sorry if she was offended but that in return, I felt offended for asking perfectly legitimate questions. That is supposed to read: I felt offended at the scolding tone of her email for asking honest and important questions. -- Tara |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
5. Light yellow to white You would turn me (and many of my friends) off with this request. In fact, my mentor recently turned down a couple for such consideration. (Granted she called her darker boy "ugly," which ticked both of us off.) There is NO guarantee as to the shade of a puppy. Puppies change shades quite a bit as they grow, and a dark puppy might turn out light and a light puppy might turn out dark. There are many more important things than the SHADE of the dog, especially in Labs. My mentor, http://www.karimarkennels.com, has a litter of fox red x. fox red carrier pups on the ground now (red male which is to be MINE, it's the Meadow x. Duckie litter), and they've changed in shade from day one, and their body shades vary from dark (my boy) to very light. Odds are, all but the very red ones will be colored similar to their mother, but there is no guarantee. I received a response that was fairly curt in tone and was scolded for having asked about the return contract. I was told that the very fact that I would ask about a return contract shows that I'm not committed enough to a well-bred puppy to qualify for one from her breeding and that I gave the distinct impression that I would return the dog over the slightest thing. It would concern me that one of your first issues was with the return clause in the contract. Granted, again, I'm coming at this from a different angle than you are, as I've known my breeder for better than a year, trained the dam of my puppy to her CD, have another dog of hers ready for his CD, and have been part of the "in" crowd for several years now. I haven't even seen the contract I'm expected to sign. Have no clue about the ins & outs of it. But I know her well enough to know that there will be VERY few things that we will butt heads on, if any. The most likely one will be when/if to send him off with a handler, and I can't see even that being an issue. I would be concerned, first and foremost, with finding a line that has what you want. Talk to breeders, lots of them, and get to be part of the trust crowd first. There are several big-name studs out there that are rumoured to produce various problems (including TVD, PRA, and elbow dysplasia), that I wouldn't have a clue about without this relationship with my mentor. I would not purchase a Lab puppy if BOTH parents were not given OFA heart clearances. It's one thing to have a dog slowly degenerate in the hips or elbows, it's another to have your healthy 3 year old drop dead in the back yard after butt-tucking. A breeder that is doing all the health tests, that is honest with you about everything else, and that you feel comfortable with WILL care enough to put that clause in. In show lines, there are just a few "big" studs that you'll notice if you start looking at pedigrees, Dickendall Arnold & kids, Rocheby Royal Oak, and you'll notice several important British/NZ/Aus kennels (Poolstead, Charway, etc.) I like the Poolstead lines personally. Awesome personalities! Look into that line if you want something for agility. I pray that Arnold doesn't carry TVD as he's pretty much behind EVERYTHING out there--and he was born in the early 90s/late 80s! I honestly put nothing in that email that would intimate that I had intentions of returning a pup and that I was half-hearted about getting and raising a Lab. I didn't even know how much her pups were and didn't ask. Does anyone else here think that her response was understandable? I should also mention that I got no answers to my other questions except "all of our dogs are proven healthy". Lab people get TONS of numpty inquiries. Keep the communication lines open, she probably just wants to see how serious you are in her dogs. There are too many people that are catching on to the "responsible breeders take him back" kick and not bothering to ensure that they're ready to raise a Lab puppy. I don't know if you've talked to Karimar yet, if not, drop her a line. She should be having yellows from Reba...if I recall right, the stud carries yellow. She ships. I can personally vouch for her level of ethics. (Be warned, she's a VERY straightforeward person). Also, there's Woodhaven (www.woodhavenlabs.com) who breeds multi-purpose Labs, she should be having yellow this fall as well. If light yellow was a major consideration, the puppy she kept from Reba's previous litter is quite light. ~Emily --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/2/2003 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:37:45 -0400 Tara O. whittled these words:
I emailed a well-known breeder of Champion dogs, years of experience, to inquire about an upcoming litter. I wanted to know the health history in terms of genetic defects, how many of the pups usually end up going to pet-homes, the health guarantee and the return policy. I was very detailed in the reason I was asking the questions, making it well-known that I'd done my research and this was not a "how much are your puppies and when can I have one" email. I received a response that was fairly curt in tone and was scolded for having asked about the return contract. I was told that the very fact that I would ask about a return contract shows that I'm not committed enough to a well-bred puppy to qualify for one from her breeding and that I gave the distinct impression that I would return the dog over the slightest thing. I emailed her back and said that I was interviewing her, which is my right as an informed buyer, and that I wanted to know about all the provisions in place as well as the history before deciding that she was someone I'd enjoy having a breeder/buyer relationship with. I explained that I'm in rescue for a different breed and that being asked such questions in advance is always a sign, to me, that the prospective adopter has given this alot of thought. I told her that I was sorry if she was offended but that in return, I felt offended for asking perfectly legitimate questions. I never got a response to that. I honestly put nothing in that email that would intimate that I had intentions of returning a pup and that I was half-hearted about getting and raising a Lab. I didn't even know how much her pups were and didn't ask. Does anyone else here think that her response was understandable? I should also mention that I got no answers to my other questions except "all of our dogs are proven healthy". It sounds like she is more used to dealing with people who are all impressed by her show wins. YOu burst her bubble by asking perfectly legitimate questions about what she DOES. A Cavelier owner and I were commenting just today how disgusting it is that some of the "top" show breeders in that breed don't health test. Same thing inlbas. Just because they are experienced and show doesn't mean they will do the responsible breeder thing. Diane Blackman |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Emily Carroll" wrote in message
... 5. Light yellow to white You would turn me (and many of my friends) off with this request. In fact, my mentor recently turned down a couple for such consideration. (Granted she called her darker boy "ugly," which ticked both of us off.) There is NO guarantee as to the shade of a puppy. Puppies change shades quite a bit as they grow, and a dark puppy might turn out light and a light puppy might turn out dark. There are many more important things than the SHADE of the dog, especially in Labs. I agree that the shades can and often do deepen with age but I would rather wait on a light yellow to white puppy than to take one who is born yellow or gold. Since I've purposely selected kennel lines that I like in terms of ethics, health, temperament & titles *and* who purposely breed yellows, all that is left for me is the shade and the personality of the pup at 8 weeks. If the light yellow or white doesn't come up that's no big deal as I can wait on another planned litter. Its also why I've made extensive contact with more than one particular breeder. I definitely have a favorite and luckily for me, she's local. She breeds yellows and blacks that carry yellow. The last litter that hit the ground was one I'd had high hopes of obtaining a pup from and would not have had a problem as I was approved to purchase (and she had several very light colored pups as well as several yellow/gold ones) but then my central AC broke and there went the $800 I'd saved for our puppy. It would concern me that one of your first issues was with the return clause in the contract. Granted, again, I'm coming at this from a different angle than you are, as I've known my breeder for better than a year, trained the dam of my puppy to her CD, have another dog of hers ready for his CD, and have been part of the "in" crowd for several years now. I haven't even seen the contract I'm expected to sign. Have no clue about the ins & outs of it. But I know her well enough to know that there will be VERY few things that we will butt heads on, if any. The most likely one will be when/if to send him off with a handler, and I can't see even that being an issue. I don't really consider it a "first issue" so much as part of the interviewing process. I asked many questions to get a good idea of the type of breeder she is. I have heard of her dogs, seen them in pedigrees of other kennel lines, and liked the looks of them but since I'd never met her or any of her dogs in person, I had no choice but to write her to ask for the missing information. I can see if I'd just written and asked "do you take your dogs back if something goes wrong?" but I asked many pertinent questions, gave a bio of our home, vet reference and explained how much research I'd done. IMO taking offense at the question was a red flag. Now the reason I ask about the return clause is simple...I wouldn't be doing Boxer rescue almost 40 hours a week if breeders took back their dogs. I want to know that a breeder that I purchase from takes lifetime responsibility for the dogs she breeds and that they don't go to shelters or Lab Rescue rather than go back to her. To me, this is very important and speaks volumes about the breeder. I would be concerned, first and foremost, with finding a line that has what you want. Talk to breeders, lots of them, and get to be part of the trust crowd first. There are two particular lines that I love (Surry & Dickendall) and several others who have Surry or Dickendall stock so they are all very similar. I've talked with all of them except Dickendall but then the lines with Dickendall in them are all sired by Gabe, Clark or Daveron so I deal with the breeder of the bitch. There are a few breeders whose lines I won't go near even though their dogs are beautiful and titled. I've learned of temperament issues and our last Lab happened to have had two of those lines in her. I don't know if you've talked to Karimar yet, if not, drop her a line. She should be having yellows from Reba...if I recall right, the stud carries yellow. She ships. I can personally vouch for her level of ethics. (Be warned, she's a VERY straightforeward person). Also, there's Woodhaven (www.woodhavenlabs.com) who breeds multi-purpose Labs, she should be having yellow this fall as well. If light yellow was a major consideration, the puppy she kept from Reba's previous litter is quite light. Thanks Emily. I'll check out Karimar & Woodhaven. -- Tara |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
There are two particular lines that I love (Surry & Dickendall) and
several others who have Surry or Dickendall stock so they are all very similar. I've talked with all of them except Dickendall but then the lines with Dickendall in them are all sired by Gabe, Clark or Daveron so I deal with the breeder of the bitch. There are a few breeders whose lines I won't go near even though their dogs are beautiful and titled. I've learned of temperament issues and our last Lab happened to have had two of those lines in her. I prefer the "old stuff" (Briary) as well as closer English imports. Maybe it's because I'm in love with Karimar's black stud, Tux, who is from imported lines. I'm not sure yet whether or not I'll stay "in" Labs, though I know I'll always have good friends that are Lab people. I don't know if I can deal with the frustration of dealing with some of the people in this breed. Thanks Emily. I'll check out Karimar & Woodhaven. Reba's pup from a previous litter is very light...you really might like what she produces ~Emily --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003 |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
wrote in message
... It sounds like she is more used to dealing with people who are all impressed by her show wins. YOu burst her bubble by asking perfectly legitimate questions about what she DOES. A Cavelier owner and I were commenting just today how disgusting it is that some of the "top" show breeders in that breed don't health test. Same thing inlbas. Just because they are experienced and show doesn't mean they will do the responsible breeder thing. I agree with you and I did make sure that she health tests prior to even emailing her. I have only considered contacting a breeder if the website shows their dogs, titles, OFA, CERF and elbows. Then if the type is right (for me) then I'll email to ask for more information to open the interviewing process. I've learned alot since my own breeder days and more than I ever really wanted to know due to rescue. While I understand the points both Emily & Janice made, my reasoning for asking about a return contract is to ensure that I won't be entering into a relationship with a breeder who doesn't keep up with her dogs and allows them to go to shelters or rescue. I did tell her I'm in rescue and gave her the link to our website in case she wanted to learn more about the kind of organization I'm affiliated with. It just seems to me that it would have been more appropriate for her to email me back with questions of her own before jumping to conclusions. -- Tara |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
"Tara O." wrote: I forgot to post this a while back. I just remembered it because I was sending an inquiry to a Lab breeder I haven't previously corresponded with. We've been researching kennels/lines for our next Lab for quite a while now. We've been approved by several breeders but for one reason or another, the litters that have hit the ground were not ones we ended up purchasing from. Our specifications: 1. Excellent, line proven, companion pet temperaments 2. OFA Excellent (will accept Good) on hips, elbows done & CERF 3. No history of PRA or severe allergies 4. Male 5. Light yellow to white [snip] It's hard to say exactly what the problem might be, but...speaking as someone who breeds occasionally and invests a lot into the selection of meritorious breeding stock, sometimes it rubs me the wrong way to be grilled by a prospective buyer who is trying to see if I "measure up" to certain standards. Of course it is the buyer's right to find out all he or she wants to know, but some stick to finding out if my priorities are their priorities, while others seem to have a "list" which implies I'm a huckster if I don't meet their criteria. And frankly, sometimes those criteria are things I consider pretty irrelevant. A difference in outlook and priorities is certainly something that occurs, but to feel that I am being held up and judged wanting for some issue I consider unimportant kind of rankles. One of my "hot button" issues is guarantees. I prefer to place puppies with people who will evaluate all I have done to try to breed a good and healthy dog, and, if they find it acceptable, take responsibility for the inherent uncertainty of breeding. I don't want to sell to someone who thinks that since they have paid their money it is my responsibility to deliver a perfect "product." It doesn't work that way. Puppies aren't fabricated goods, and moreover, a replacement under a guarantee is not a satisfactory solution to most families. What they want is for the puppy they buy to work out. It is a fallacy to equate "guarantee" with a promise of perfection. I do guarantee against certain things, mostly as a tool to keep informed of possibly-genetic flaws that bear on future breeding decisions. I will take a dog of mine back at any time. This is "no questions asked" in an effort to make people feel safe calling me to return their dog. But it is an unhappy situation. It would mean that the placement is a failure, and when I interview prospective owners, I want every placement to be a success. If someone gave me the impression they were too interested in that clause--not committed to the dog--I would cross them off my list. On the subject of price, there are a lot of people for whom it is an important criterion but for some reason they think it's rude to ask up front. If you have a price range, let's talk about that first! I hate it when I spend forty-five minutes on the phone telling about my dogs and asking about the prospective owner, only to find out that my puppies are out of their price range. Another issue, which may or may not be important to the breeder who snubbed you, is that a good relationship between breeder and buyer is good for the puppy and good for the breeding program, in that the breeder gets feedback about the dog. Placement is not only about your meeting their criteria and their meeting your criteria--it's also about comfort and communication. Of course, it could be that this breeder's experience and confidence in her track record of producing good dogs is such that she doesn't want to jump through hoops to prove herself to everyone that comes along. I guess what this whole email amounts to is that breeding good puppies isn't necessarily a "consumer- oriented" activity. In my work I try to meet people's expectations and do a good job; when I breed dogs it is to my own standards. Maybe this is the main source of discordance with prospective buyers--when they seem to implicitly assume that my sole purpose is to satisfy the consumer. Sorry to ramble. I suggest you just "let it go" as a mismatch. Amy Dahl |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
"Amy Dahl" wrote in message
... It's hard to say exactly what the problem might be, but...speaking as someone who breeds occasionally and invests a lot into the selection of meritorious breeding stock, sometimes it rubs me the wrong way to be grilled by a prospective buyer who is trying to see if I "measure up" to certain standards. I can see that but on the flip side, don't you, as a breeder, grill prospective buyers to make sure they measure up to your standards? I wouldn't call my questions to breeders grilling though. I'm always very upfront, give a full bio of myself, why I want a Lab, what I know about Labs, what my plans are for the dog and then ask about the health, temperament and policies so the breeder can see where I'm coming from, a bit about who I am and so on. I know I'm always polite since this particular breeder is the only one to have been put out with my questions. The others have always been happy to open the lines of communication and talk about their dogs. One of my "hot button" issues is guarantees. I prefer to place puppies with people who will evaluate all I have done to try to breed a good and healthy dog, and, if they find it acceptable, take responsibility for the inherent uncertainty of breeding. I don't want to sell to someone who thinks that since they have paid their money it is my responsibility to deliver a perfect "product." I definitely agree with you there. I don't expect a perfect dog, such things don't exist. I don't expect a lifetime guarantee on health or a refund policy either. I wouldn't return a dog for blindness, lameness, thyroid or any other health condition but if I'm paying a high purchase price for a quality dog, I want to know that health testing is done and no major defects have shown up in the lines. I wouldn't buy a pup from a litter of OFA-fair or worse parents because the chance of dealing with dysplasia is higher. One of the biggest reasons I would go to an ethical breeder rather than a byb, and pay a significantly higher purchase price, is for the insurance of knowing the lines and knowing they don't have any significant problems. I will take a dog of mine back at any time. This is "no questions asked" in an effort to make people feel safe calling me to return their dog. But it is an unhappy situation. It would mean that the placement is a failure, and when I interview prospective owners, I want every placement to be a success. If someone gave me the impression they were too interested in that clause--not committed to the dog--I would cross them off my list. I understand this POV but don't see interest in a take-back clause as a purely negative thing or solely indicative of the buyer's intent. Sometimes all it indicates is a person's need to know that they won't be putting money into the pockets of a breeder whose dogs end up in shelters or rescues. I do explain upfront that I run a rescue, give the link to our website, and offer references. It shouldn't be difficult for a breeder to figure out that if I'm asking about a take-back clause, its likely to do with the fact that I'm actively bailing dogs out of situations that they wouldn't have been in if the breeder had taken responsibility for them. On the subject of price, there are a lot of people for whom it is an important criterion but for some reason they think it's rude to ask up front. If you have a price range, let's talk about that first! I hate it when I spend forty-five minutes on the phone telling about my dogs and asking about the prospective owner, only to find out that my puppies are out of their price range. Alot of breeders find it highly upsetting to be asked about price at all. On the one hand I can understand that but on the other, I don't think its an issue that should evoke such volatile emotions. Not everyone has $1000 to drop on a puppy's purchase price and finding that out up front, as you suggest, is a good way for all parties involved to know if their communications should end or continue. Another issue, which may or may not be important to the breeder who snubbed you, is that a good relationship between breeder and buyer is good for the puppy and good for the breeding program, in that the breeder gets feedback about the dog. Placement is not only about your meeting their criteria and their meeting your criteria--it's also about comfort and communication. That's the thing though. It was the lifetime relationship that I was specifically addressing in a positive way. I was polite, forthcoming and gave tons of info on myself. I honestly don't see how someone who emails you a 3 page email with bio, references, knowledge of the breed and questions could be a bad thing. I adore prospective adopters who email me with lots of questions and tell me about themselves in detail. IMO it shows a great willingness to communicate. Of course, it could be that this breeder's experience and confidence in her track record of producing good dogs is such that she doesn't want to jump through hoops to prove herself to everyone that comes along. I think you hit the nail on the head but I find that kind of arrogance unworthy. I'm really good at what I do for a living but I'd still be expected to provide a resume and/or credentials to prospective clients. I'm not the only person in my line of work, just like this breeder isn't the only one breeding good Labs. I expect to prove myself to people when it comes to my experience and would think that if nothing else, the same thing gives a good breeder the chance to brag about her accomplishments. I guess what this whole email amounts to is that breeding good puppies isn't necessarily a "consumer- oriented" activity. In my work I try to meet people's expectations and do a good job; when I breed dogs it is to my own standards. Maybe this is the main source of discordance with prospective buyers--when they seem to implicitly assume that my sole purpose is to satisfy the consumer. Here again, I understand what you're saying but that kind of situation is not the type that I have created with any breeder. I seek them out because they are already breeding what I like and want from what I am able to gather prior to contacting them. I don't contact people with a list of demands that they aren't able to meet. My requirements are simple...proven companion animal temperament & lines free of major genetic defects. I'd add yellow to the list as well but then I only select from breeders who are already producing yellow dogs. Sorry to ramble. I suggest you just "let it go" as a mismatch. Oh I let it go right after it happened but was reminded of it tonight when I emailed a breeder who was recommended to me but who doesn't know me from Adam. It just clicked that "oh, I hope this breeder doesn't take the offense as the last." I also posted because I think its an important topic to discuss. You so often see recommendations for seeking out an ethical breeder, doing tons of research and asking alot of questions when people post about wanting a puppy. Here, all those things were done and instead of the breeder being willing to talk or impressed with the amount of forethought I put into contacting her, she considered me intrusive or something. Obviously breeders' ideas of how the process should work do not always jibe with the buyers' ideas (which are often recommended steps in most books, websites and word of mouth). It seems that if there are going to be discrepancies in what's considered appropriate then it should be brought to light and discussed. -- Tara |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I was more airing my personal
POV than trying to find fault with your approach. "Tara O." wrote: I can see that but on the flip side, don't you, as a breeder, grill prospective buyers to make sure they measure up to your standards? Actually I don't. I feel I can find out more by letting people talk, and gently steering the conversation to cover any topics they don't spontaneously include. I ask them to tell me about their previous dog(s), their plans and goals for this one, what they are looking for, etc. I worry if I lead them too much they will tell me what I want to hear--or become educated as to what to tell another breeder. I have a definite list of things I want to find out, don't get me wrong. But letting people talk, they also volunteer a lot of interesting information I might not think to ask about, and I learn about less tangible things. wouldn't call my questions to breeders grilling though. I'm always very upfront, give a full bio of myself, why I want a Lab, what I know about Labs, what my plans are for the dog and then ask about the health, temperament and policies so the breeder can see where I'm coming from, a bit about who I am and so on. I know I'm always polite since this particular breeder is the only one to have been put out with my questions. The others have always been happy to open the lines of communication and talk about their dogs. I am sure I would be happy with your approach--and, if I was to breed one of my Labs, would know almost immediately that my puppies wouldn't be what you'd want! I do think "temperament" is a tricky word. I have definite ideas on the subject and will wash a breeding prospect for that alone--but I feel that a lot of people either just pay it lip service, or have a vague idea of a "nice dog." I own a Lab who was raised in a kennel to the age of four months (when I bought him), and has been delightful, adaptable, gentle, incredible with children, and recently, when he had surgery for a distichia and two eyelid tumors, needed only a local and no sedative. The vet students who assisted were amazed. That I like. Any kind of possessiveness, spookiness, or aggression, on the other hand, is wrong in a Lab. IMO a Lab should be adaptable and stable even if socialization is largely neglected. I definitely agree with you there. I don't expect a perfect dog, such things don't exist. I don't expect a lifetime guarantee on health or a refund policy either. I wouldn't return a dog for blindness, lameness, thyroid or any other health condition but if I'm paying a high purchase price for a quality dog, I want to know that health testing is done and no major defects have shown up in the lines. I wouldn't buy a pup from a litter of OFA-fair or worse parents because the chance of dealing with dysplasia is higher. I disagree with you here. You might look into the inheritance pattern of polygenic traits a bit. With a trait like hip dysplasia, the status of full siblings tells you more about a given dog's probable genetic potential than does the phenotype of that dog itself. OR, as is sometimes stated, a dog with OFA Fair, all of whose siblings passed OFA (assuming some number of siblings) is a better bet than a dog with OFA Excellent who had one or more siblings fail. But an awful lot of breeders will only include Goods and Excellents and pay no attention to sibling ratings. Not only does this rule out some dogs of merit, it's ineffective. Alot of breeders find it highly upsetting to be asked about price at all. On the one hand I can understand that but on the other, I don't think its an issue that should evoke such volatile emotions. Not everyone has $1000 to drop on a puppy's purchase price and finding that out up front, as you suggest, is a good way for all parties involved to know if their communications should end or continue. Sometimes it bugs me when people tell my my puppies are too much for them, if they seem to imply that there's no reason to charge that amount. But it beats losing 45 minutes of my life. Obviously breeders' ideas of how the process should work do not always jibe with the buyers' ideas (which are often recommended steps in most books, websites and word of mouth). It seems that if there are going to be discrepancies in what's considered appropriate then it should be brought to light and discussed. Those lists usually bug me, but I guess most people just want to get a dog, they don't want to receive a complete education in "the world of purebred dogs and how breeders operate." So a tool they can use, which often takes the form of a list, is helpful. Amy Dahl |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Natural Ear Boxer | Tara O. | Dog breeds | 56 | July 30th 03 06:39 AM |
portugese Water dogs info | Anthony | Dog breeds | 2 | July 19th 03 12:48 AM |
Breeder Fees: What's Resonable/Ethical? | Andrea | Dog breeds | 11 | July 12th 03 08:29 AM |