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Torn dew claw



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 25th 06, 06:52 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
pfoley
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Posts: 1,285
Default Torn dew claw


"Mary Healey" wrote in message
.4...
"pfoley" wrote :
...People get information from
different experts; I got mine from the vet;


My vet refuses to take the dews off most dogs. She's very firm in her
opinion that removing them is unnecessary in most cases.

Supplementing that expert opinion, I've also seen my dogs use their
front dews to manipulate toys and chewies. The come in with mud on
their dews after a rabbit (squirrel, chipmunk, cat) chase, or a vigorous
round of frisbee.

Dewclaw trivia:

"The Lundehund certainly has the most interesting feet in dogdom. Small-
bodied for agility among the rocks, the breed has been selected for
polydactylism (supernumerary toes), so that it has at least two large
functional dewclaws and up to eight plantar cushions per foot."
from http://www.thebreedsofdogs.com/LUNDEHUND.htm

The AKC Briard standard says:
"two dewclaws are required on each rear leg, placed low on the leg,
giving a wide base to the foot. Occasionally the nail may break off
completely. The dog shall not be penalized for the missing nail so long
as the digit itself is present. Ideally the dewclaws form additional
functioning toes. Disqualification --anything less than two dewclaws on
each rear leg."

...If I didn't
make it clear in the first message I am sure they got it later on
after the abundance of messages questioning and attacking me.


So now you understand why your replies are questioned -- the information
you provide initially is incomplete.


uhh - no I don't; not every dog is into agility; my dog is not. I am
satisfied with the results. I am glad you are happy with yours. Give it
up.



  #22  
Old September 25th 06, 11:56 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Robin Nuttall
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Posts: 1,344
Default Torn dew claw

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article et,
pfoley wrote:

I just listened to the experts.



Well, either they led you astray or you misunderstood what
they were saying (I agree that you should remove dewclaws
that are only being held on by skin and ligament, and
perhaps that's what they may have been talking about).
People are making decisions about their dog's health based
on stuff they read here, and while it may be advantageous to
you to let misinformation go unchallenged, it's not good for
the dogs.


"Experts" are often people who are actually parroting what others have
told them, just as pfoley is doing. They have no real cases or data to
back up their statements, just stories of "I heard of a dog who belonged
to a person somewhere who ripped out a dew claw..."

The important thing to remember in this beyond the bitching back and
forth is that dewclaws are not.not.not useless appendages. They are the
dog's "thumb." Looking at the dog standing still, it can be very
difficult to understand that these digits DO have a useful function.
Front dew claws are almost always attached with muscle, bone, and
ligaments. Dogs do more than use these claws to do things like hold a
bone still. At a flat run and when turning, or when landing off of a
jump, a dog will often put the entire palmar surface of its foot down on
the ground for an instant. It usually happens very quickly at that speed
so we really never "see" it unless the dog is particularly weak in the
pastern. But photos reveal the truth, and anybody who has had a dog come
back from a run with that small stopper pad scuffed, muddied or bloodied
*should* understand it though they often don't seem to make the connection.

Cutting off the dew claws often removes a functional structure, and I
personally wonder if it may contribute to some of the athletic injuries
we see these days. If I ever breed another litter (not likely, but who
knows), I will leave the dew claws on. Dew claws DO need special
trimming attention to make sure they don't curve into claws that are
easily hung. But I've come to believe that they should stay.
  #23  
Old September 26th 06, 06:01 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Paula
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Posts: 1,726
Default Torn dew claw

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:59:46 GMT, "pfoley"
wrote:

Wouldn't it be more advantageous to
the OP if everyone just stated their own opinions and ideas to the OP,
instead of trying to start something with a responder, whom they disagree
with.


It is more advantageous to the OP if people qualify their responses
for better accuracy. So, for example, you could say, "I am not a vet,
but my vet told me..." or "what worked for me was..." or "I've heard
that..." When you overstate your position or your qualifications, it
might make it easier for you, but it doesn't give an advantage to the
OP. Their interests are best served by accuracy so they can better
weigh the opinions and do what is best for their dog.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay
  #24  
Old September 27th 06, 09:03 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
DeeDee
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Posts: 9
Default To PFoley - Torn dew claw

Thanks very much for your response. I honestly don't understand why
everyone is jumping down your throat though. I spoke with my vet today
who wondered why my rescued dog's front dew claws (she has no back
ones) weren't removed when she was first brought into rescue which is
when she had her teeth cleaned and spaying done. My vet has also
performed dew claw removal on quite a few rescued dogs himself.

As far as I'm concerned, my dog's dew claws serve no useful purpose.
She has a tendency to avoid chewing on a bone or rawhide as though
she's afraid of injuring them as they appear to be quite sensitive for
her. She is constantly running through the woods over branches, logs,
and underbrush as well and could easily incur torn claws that way.

I've still not made up my mind 100% yet whether or not to go ahead with
surgery as I wanted to speak with others whose dogs have had theirs
done first, though didn't expect to see such harsh criticism here. To
each his own I guess. I know my dog is not a carbon copy of every
other dog out there and even though there are dogs that probably do use
their claws for certain things like playing, grasping objects etc. my
dog certainly doesn't.

So thanks again for your input. I've got an appt. w/ the vet on Sunday
to assess my dog.

Cheers ~

  #25  
Old September 27th 06, 09:03 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
DeeDee
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Posts: 9
Default To PFoley - Torn dew claw

Thanks very much for your response. I honestly don't understand why
everyone is jumping down your throat though. I spoke with my vet today
who wondered why my rescued dog's front dew claws (she has no back
ones) weren't removed when she was first brought into rescue which is
when she had her teeth cleaned and spaying done. My vet has also
performed dew claw removal on quite a few rescued dogs himself.

As far as I'm concerned, my dog's dew claws serve no useful purpose.
She has a tendency to avoid chewing on a bone or rawhide as though
she's afraid of injuring them as they appear to be quite sensitive for
her. She is constantly running through the woods over branches, logs,
and underbrush as well and could easily incur torn claws that way.

I've still not made up my mind 100% yet whether or not to go ahead with
surgery as I wanted to speak with others whose dogs have had theirs
done first, though didn't expect to see such harsh criticism here. To
each his own I guess. I know my dog is not a carbon copy of every
other dog out there and even though there are dogs that probably do use
their claws for certain things like playing, grasping objects etc. my
dog certainly doesn't.

So thanks again for your input. I've got an appt. w/ the vet on Sunday
to assess my dog.

Cheers ~

  #26  
Old October 1st 06, 04:36 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Amy Dahl
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Posts: 368
Default Torn dew claw



Mary Healey wrote:

"pfoley" wrote :
...People get information from
different experts; I got mine from the vet;


My vet refuses to take the dews off most dogs. She's very firm in her
opinion that removing them is unnecessary in most cases.


I missed the OP, so I'll throw my response in here. It is routine
and standard among working retriever breeders to remove front
dewclaws at 3-5 days of age. The stated reason is to prevent
future injuries, which are considered serious.

A relevant feature of injuries to working retrievers is that
as the dogs do much of their work in remote locations and
on weekends, it may be many hours before they can be seen
by a vet. Any injury that leads to shock is potentially life-
threatening.

Hind dewclaws, if present, are also removed.

Amy Dahl

  #27  
Old October 1st 06, 04:39 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
diddy
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Posts: 1,077
Default Torn dew claw

in thread : Amy Dahl
whittled the following words:

Mary Healey wrote:

"pfoley" wrote :
...People get information from
different experts; I got mine from the vet;


My vet refuses to take the dews off most dogs. She's very firm in her
opinion that removing them is unnecessary in most cases.


I missed the OP, so I'll throw my response in here. It is routine
and standard among working retriever breeders to remove front
dewclaws at 3-5 days of age. The stated reason is to prevent
future injuries, which are considered serious.

A relevant feature of injuries to working retrievers is that
as the dogs do much of their work in remote locations and
on weekends, it may be many hours before they can be seen
by a vet. Any injury that leads to shock is potentially life-
threatening.

Hind dewclaws, if present, are also removed.

Amy Dahl



Search Dogs generally have them removed also. slipping and sliding through
rubble piles of glass and metal makes dewclaws very vulnerable.
  #28  
Old October 1st 06, 04:42 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Amy Dahl
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Posts: 368
Default To PFoley - Torn dew claw



DeeDee wrote:

Thanks very much for your response. I honestly don't understand why
everyone is jumping down your throat though. I spoke with my vet today
who wondered why my rescued dog's front dew claws (she has no back
ones) weren't removed when she was first brought into rescue which is
when she had her teeth cleaned and spaying done. My vet has also
performed dew claw removal on quite a few rescued dogs himself.


One of the vets at the practice I use appears to be quite a skilful
surgeon. He told me of his opinion that dewclaw removal on a
mature dog is his least favorite of all surgeries. Apparently the
well-developed bone and other structures make it difficult.

A very different view from that of your vet. Perhaps whoever
made the initial decision was of like mind with my vet.

I posted elsewhere about removing dewclaws in retriever puppies.
If, however, I adopted or inherited an adult retriever with dewclaws,
I would leave them intact. While injury is a possibility, I don't
believe the probability is high, and surgery involves risk as well.

Amy Dahl

  #29  
Old October 1st 06, 04:51 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
diddy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,077
Default Torn dew claw

in thread ups.com:
"DeeDee" whittled the following words:

Hi all, I took my Terrier/Chihuahua mix Mimi to the groomers today to
have her claws trimmed. I suggested to the groomer that Mimi be
muzzled as I was worried that she may bite as she HATES going there,
even though I trust the groomers will do a great job. Once the muzzle
was put on, Mimi frantically tried to get it off and inadvertently tore
off her dew claw. They treated it and once I got home, gave Mimi half
a baby aspirin for pain. This is the 2nd time this year she has torn
off her dew claw. Has anyone else had any problems with their dogs
tearing their dew claws off more than once? Anyone ever have the dew
claws surgically removed to prevent future injuries? Thanks.



Since the dog has a history of tearing it two times in a single year, your
dog obviously participates inactivities that put it at risk and the
dewclaw construction is such that it's likely to catch and tear.

It seems that rather than risk painful tears and healing periods, Dew
Claw removal would be prudent in this case. Humane amputation under
anesthesia followed with painkillers seems far kinder that subjecting her
to repeated tears.
  #30  
Old October 1st 06, 04:52 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
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Posts: 32
Default To PFoley - Torn dew claw

Amy Dahl wrote:

One of the vets at the practice I use appears to be quite a skilful
surgeon. He told me of his opinion that dewclaw removal on a
mature dog is his least favorite of all surgeries. Apparently the
well-developed bone and other structures make it difficult.

A very different view from that of your vet. Perhaps whoever
made the initial decision was of like mind with my vet.

I posted elsewhere about removing dewclaws in retriever puppies.
If, however, I adopted or inherited an adult retriever with dewclaws,
I would leave them intact. While injury is a possibility, I don't
believe the probability is high, and surgery involves risk as well.

Amy Dahl


This is a very informative thread. I always assumed dew claws should
be removed when pups are first born. I adopted my beagle/hound(?) mix
with dew claws in tact and have always been concerned about them since
we spend a lot of time hiking/running in the woods. She has so far not
had a single issue, and now I'm glad she wasn't mutilated
unnecessarily!

Since I may adopt a Labrador (or a GSD or a mutt) very soon, what are
the risks for retrievers with in tact dew claws and how can I minimize
them? I'm not a fan of elective surgery of any kind.

 




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