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Myths and truth



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 14th 08, 02:34 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
chardonnay9
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Posts: 1,054
Default Myths and truth

Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Resea rch_Laboratory wrote:
HOWEDY chardonnay9,

THANK YOU for doin a FINE job IDENTIFYING,
EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITING the lyin animal
murderin MENTAL CASES who post their LIES IDIOCY
INSANITY and ABUSE here abHOWETS and


Thanks to you too Jerry. I've looked into you and your talents. Seems
you are in the Orlando area which means we are neighbors. I'm in Tampa.

You need to post some better videos to YouTube. They are blurry.



WELCOME
to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing,
Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret,
Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory {}'; ~ )

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research {}'; ~ )

  #12  
Old November 14th 08, 04:14 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Myths and truth

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
As if anyone could make up a diet from leftovers that don't meet human
requirements that is better than what Mother Nature provides!


Arsenic - one of nature's building blocks! It doesn't
contain any molecules - that's important, right? As we
recall from our earlier discussions, carcinogens contain
molecules. Science sez that there's a nearly perfect
correlation.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #13  
Old November 14th 08, 05:27 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.med.veterinary
Sharon Too
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Default Myths and truth

Thanks to you too Jerry. I've looked into you and your talents. Seems you
are in the Orlando area which means we are neighbors. I'm in Tampa.

You need to post some better videos to YouTube. They are blurry.


This explains a lot. You two should start a neighborhood block club. Just
notify the authorities first. Welcome to my Jerry Howe hell hole.


  #14  
Old November 15th 08, 03:16 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Dale Atkin
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Posts: 324
Default Myths and truth

Hi chardonnay9,

You seem to be very passionate about raw food diets. I was hoping we might
have an open discussion about it.

First, my own views (I'd invite you to make similar statements of your basic
views):

I feed kibble.

There are some crappy kibbles out there (in fact there are many crappy
kibbles out there).
There are some crappy raw diets out there (in fact there are many crappy raw
diets out there).

Some raw diets are better than some kibble diets.
Some kibble diets are better than some raw diets.

My attitude towards a diet is if it seems to be working for the dog, don't
fix it.

There are *many* people out there who will try to tell you a diet you should
feed your dog. Most of these 'diets' are based on little more than what one
person has decided is a good idea, and very little in the way of actual
justification. Some of these diets are down right dangerous to feed long
term because of nutritional inadequacies.

I prefer to give my money to a company that has vested long term interest
producing good results (some guy on the internet, or some guy trying to sell
a book has no such motivation). Vets will notice if all the dogs who come
in eating brand x have a particular problem. Why do you think most vets
*ask* what you're feeding? they are looking for correlations, and trying to
get an idea for themselves as far as what works, and what doesn’t.

As far as lack of scientific research goes, I think part of the issue is
that the problem you're looking at is too big. That just isn't the way
science generally works. You can't even ask a question like "What is better?
Raw diets? Or kibble?" Its too broad, the experimenter can make the results
come out any way they choose simply by the way they set up the experiment
(the parameters, and measurements). A more appropriate question to ask might
be to test one of the claims of the raw diet (or the kibble diet) and see if
it stands up to analysis.

One claim is that cooking food destroys the nutritional value. Even that is
somewhat too vague, as we haven't pinned down exactly what we mean by
'cooking'. Is cooking simply exposing to high heat? Are we boiling in
liquid? Are we treating with chemicals? That aside, all the evidence that I
was able to find from a literature search points the other way (although not
unequivocally). Cooking in fact (generally) enhances the bioavailability of
nutrients, possibly by breaking down globular proteins in to more easily
digested chunks. There is some loss in the process of total protein, but the
amount that is actually available to be digested/absorbed increases. (see
references in other thread). There may (potentially) be some preferential
loss of certain amino acids more prone to breaking down under heat stress.

Anyways, before I go too far, I'd like to hear your response.

Dale Atkin


  #15  
Old November 15th 08, 04:10 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
shelly
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Default Myths and truth

"Dale Atkin" wrote in news:niqTk.404$jr4.93
@edtnps82:

Why do you think most vets *ask* what you're feeding?


They do? Because I've been to a lot of vets, and I've never had one
ask me what I was feeding my dog. Even when we were discussing
probable food allergies, she didn't ask me about specific foods.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #16  
Old November 15th 08, 04:27 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Rocky[_2_]
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Default Myths and truth

Shelly said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

Why do you think most vets *ask* what you're feeding?


They do? Because I've been to a lot of vets, and I've
never had one ask me what I was feeding my dog. Even when
we were discussing probable food allergies, she didn't ask
me about specific foods.


I was asked once, but only after it was suggested that I feed
Rocky some form of weight loss kibble. "How about if I feed him
less of the stuff he's on?"

Various vets have complimented me on how my dogs are in great
shape. Two, of three, have asked me how this happened. That's
when they should be prepared for a good discussion. Generally,
I find that vets are open to discussion.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #17  
Old November 15th 08, 11:11 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Myths and truth

In article ,
Shelly wrote:
They do? Because I've been to a lot of vets, and I've never had one
ask me what I was feeding my dog. Even when we were discussing
probable food allergies, she didn't ask me about specific foods.


I find it's pretty hit-and-miss. I've been seeing the same
vets for years (although they've changed practices during
that period) and they asked a few times early on. Can't say
I've been asked any time in the past few years despite being
down there fairly often (8 dogs will do that) and despite
switching foods regularly.

The students at the vet school always ask, when we go up
there, but they're working off a checklist. They also take
the dog's temperature every single time and a bunch of
other stuff.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #18  
Old November 15th 08, 02:15 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
diddy[_2_]
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Default Myths and truth

Shelly spoke these words of wisdom in
1:

"Dale Atkin" wrote in news:niqTk.404$jr4.93
@edtnps82:

Why do you think most vets *ask* what you're feeding?


They do? Because I've been to a lot of vets, and I've never had one
ask me what I was feeding my dog. Even when we were discussing
probable food allergies, she didn't ask me about specific foods.


Every vet I've ever been to asks me what I'm feeding, Everytime.
Especially when I had gastric issues with Danny, who went to many specialists
(who was fed raw food)
  #19  
Old November 15th 08, 02:52 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Robin Nuttall
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Default Myths and truth

Shelly wrote:

"Dale Atkin" wrote in news:niqTk.404$jr4.93
@edtnps82:


Why do you think most vets *ask* what you're feeding?



They do? Because I've been to a lot of vets, and I've never had one
ask me what I was feeding my dog. Even when we were discussing
probable food allergies, she didn't ask me about specific foods.

I've had a lot of vets ask me what I feed but they then sort of look
puzzled, because I don't necessarily give the stock answer (Iams or Dog
Chow). When I say, "Evo," they don't know what that is.
  #20  
Old November 15th 08, 02:55 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
shelly
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Posts: 6,155
Default Myths and truth

Rocky wrote in
:

Various vets have complimented me on how my dogs are in great
shape. Two, of three, have asked me how this happened.


Oh yeah. *I* have discussed food with my vets, but only after it was
clear that they weren't going to broach the topic on their own.

That's when they should be prepared for a good discussion.
Generally, I find that vets are open to discussion.


I've had a mixed bag experience there. Some of them have seemed
rushed, and only wanting to do the bare minimum. Trying to discuss
food has gotten at best a shrug and "Whatever works" from them.
That's one of the reasons I've auditioned pretty much every vet in
(and some out of) town.

At the new clinic, I've now seen all but one vet, and only the first
one was interested in discussing food. That makes sense, though, as
the first vet was the one we had the "getting to know you" check-up
with. She spent quite a bit of time with us, and after I'd brought
up the subject of food, we did discuss specifics.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
 




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