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Help: Crate opinion wanted form people with 20+ years Breeding.



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 16th 03, 01:37 PM
Javahead
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Posts: n/a
Default Help: Crate opinion wanted form people with 20+ years Breeding.

My family had an AKC Kennel when I was a boy (Schipperke's) ANYWAY, the
question is this, when I grew up no one (that we knew) boxed their dogs, or
considered it. I'm not saying it's not a better way, but everything I've
been able to find (info-wise) has been from people selling boxes, err. a
crates, or people with less than 5 years & 5 dogs experience (kids). I'd
like to hear from some of the old(er) folks out there that have
had/trained/breed dogs longer than most of the people here w/opinions have
been eating solid food. What was/is wrong with the OLD ways ? Or, is it
more a matter of lets do it faster, & "I don't want the dernd' dog mussin'
my stuff", As I recall we puppy proofed a room & let them "go for it". Then
again, we's just simple counrty folk, we only trained horses, & dogs & kept
a GC line, I doubt we REALLY knew anything.....But I diverge.

Oh & Any impartial info (web address) on the subjust would be nice too.

Javahead

--
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatoos nunc"
We gladly feast on those who would subdue us.
Not just pretty words.
  #2  
Old December 16th 03, 01:46 PM
J1Boss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Javahead wrotes:

. What was/is wrong with the OLD ways ? Or, is it
more a matter of lets do it faster, & "I don't want the dernd' dog mussin'
my stuff",


More people work full time away from the home these days. No longer is mom
home all day with the kids and the dog. I also think safety has become more of
a concern in general, but in this case, for the dogs. It's not just the damage
a young dog can do to things, it's the damage a young dog can do to itself.

As I recall we puppy proofed a room & let them "go for it".


Who has a room they can afford to have trashed? Who wants to set bad habits of
allowing elimination indoors? Who wants to clean that up? Who wants to exile
a puppy in a room, instead of integrating them into the whole house?

Then
again, we's just simple counrty folk, we only trained horses, & dogs & kept
a GC line, I doubt we REALLY knew anything.....But I diverge.


If you were "country folk", it sounds like someone was HOME, working the land.
That presence alone allows for a bit more flexibility in puppy raising.


Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

  #3  
Old December 16th 03, 01:46 PM
J1Boss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Javahead wrotes:

. What was/is wrong with the OLD ways ? Or, is it
more a matter of lets do it faster, & "I don't want the dernd' dog mussin'
my stuff",


More people work full time away from the home these days. No longer is mom
home all day with the kids and the dog. I also think safety has become more of
a concern in general, but in this case, for the dogs. It's not just the damage
a young dog can do to things, it's the damage a young dog can do to itself.

As I recall we puppy proofed a room & let them "go for it".


Who has a room they can afford to have trashed? Who wants to set bad habits of
allowing elimination indoors? Who wants to clean that up? Who wants to exile
a puppy in a room, instead of integrating them into the whole house?

Then
again, we's just simple counrty folk, we only trained horses, & dogs & kept
a GC line, I doubt we REALLY knew anything.....But I diverge.


If you were "country folk", it sounds like someone was HOME, working the land.
That presence alone allows for a bit more flexibility in puppy raising.


Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

  #4  
Old December 16th 03, 01:46 PM
J1Boss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Javahead wrotes:

. What was/is wrong with the OLD ways ? Or, is it
more a matter of lets do it faster, & "I don't want the dernd' dog mussin'
my stuff",


More people work full time away from the home these days. No longer is mom
home all day with the kids and the dog. I also think safety has become more of
a concern in general, but in this case, for the dogs. It's not just the damage
a young dog can do to things, it's the damage a young dog can do to itself.

As I recall we puppy proofed a room & let them "go for it".


Who has a room they can afford to have trashed? Who wants to set bad habits of
allowing elimination indoors? Who wants to clean that up? Who wants to exile
a puppy in a room, instead of integrating them into the whole house?

Then
again, we's just simple counrty folk, we only trained horses, & dogs & kept
a GC line, I doubt we REALLY knew anything.....But I diverge.


If you were "country folk", it sounds like someone was HOME, working the land.
That presence alone allows for a bit more flexibility in puppy raising.


Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

  #5  
Old December 16th 03, 02:34 PM
Javahead
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(J1Boss) wrote in
:

Javahead wrotes:

. What was/is wrong with the OLD ways ? Or, is it
more a matter of lets do it faster, & "I don't want the dernd' dog
mussin' my stuff",


More people work full time away from the home these days. No longer
is mom home all day with the kids and the dog. I also think safety
has become more of a concern in general, but in this case, for the
dogs. It's not just the damage a young dog can do to things, it's the
damage a young dog can do to itself.


This may be true, but I guess I feel, if you need to spend to much time
away from your pet, you shouln't have one. Everyone need to decide for
themselfs what "too much time is".

As I recall we puppy proofed a room & let them "go for it".


Who has a room they can afford to have trashed? Who wants to set bad
habits of allowing elimination indoors? Who wants to clean that up?
Who wants to exile a puppy in a room, instead of integrating them into
the whole house?


My Mistake, Paper training was the norm in those days, it did have
problems, as does Crate training.


Then
again, we's just simple counrty folk, we only trained horses, & dogs &
kept a GC line, I doubt we REALLY knew anything.....But I diverge.


If you were "country folk", it sounds like someone was HOME, working
the land. That presence alone allows for a bit more flexibility in
puppy raising.


Yes, then, as now for us, someone is ALWAYS home.



Thank you for your prompt and thought provoking ideas & comments.

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com



Javahead

--
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatoos nunc"
We gladly feast on those who would subdue us.
Not just pretty words.
  #6  
Old December 16th 03, 02:34 PM
Javahead
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(J1Boss) wrote in
:

Javahead wrotes:

. What was/is wrong with the OLD ways ? Or, is it
more a matter of lets do it faster, & "I don't want the dernd' dog
mussin' my stuff",


More people work full time away from the home these days. No longer
is mom home all day with the kids and the dog. I also think safety
has become more of a concern in general, but in this case, for the
dogs. It's not just the damage a young dog can do to things, it's the
damage a young dog can do to itself.


This may be true, but I guess I feel, if you need to spend to much time
away from your pet, you shouln't have one. Everyone need to decide for
themselfs what "too much time is".

As I recall we puppy proofed a room & let them "go for it".


Who has a room they can afford to have trashed? Who wants to set bad
habits of allowing elimination indoors? Who wants to clean that up?
Who wants to exile a puppy in a room, instead of integrating them into
the whole house?


My Mistake, Paper training was the norm in those days, it did have
problems, as does Crate training.


Then
again, we's just simple counrty folk, we only trained horses, & dogs &
kept a GC line, I doubt we REALLY knew anything.....But I diverge.


If you were "country folk", it sounds like someone was HOME, working
the land. That presence alone allows for a bit more flexibility in
puppy raising.


Yes, then, as now for us, someone is ALWAYS home.



Thank you for your prompt and thought provoking ideas & comments.

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com



Javahead

--
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatoos nunc"
We gladly feast on those who would subdue us.
Not just pretty words.
  #7  
Old December 16th 03, 02:34 PM
Javahead
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(J1Boss) wrote in
:

Javahead wrotes:

. What was/is wrong with the OLD ways ? Or, is it
more a matter of lets do it faster, & "I don't want the dernd' dog
mussin' my stuff",


More people work full time away from the home these days. No longer
is mom home all day with the kids and the dog. I also think safety
has become more of a concern in general, but in this case, for the
dogs. It's not just the damage a young dog can do to things, it's the
damage a young dog can do to itself.


This may be true, but I guess I feel, if you need to spend to much time
away from your pet, you shouln't have one. Everyone need to decide for
themselfs what "too much time is".

As I recall we puppy proofed a room & let them "go for it".


Who has a room they can afford to have trashed? Who wants to set bad
habits of allowing elimination indoors? Who wants to clean that up?
Who wants to exile a puppy in a room, instead of integrating them into
the whole house?


My Mistake, Paper training was the norm in those days, it did have
problems, as does Crate training.


Then
again, we's just simple counrty folk, we only trained horses, & dogs &
kept a GC line, I doubt we REALLY knew anything.....But I diverge.


If you were "country folk", it sounds like someone was HOME, working
the land. That presence alone allows for a bit more flexibility in
puppy raising.


Yes, then, as now for us, someone is ALWAYS home.



Thank you for your prompt and thought provoking ideas & comments.

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com



Javahead

--
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatoos nunc"
We gladly feast on those who would subdue us.
Not just pretty words.
  #8  
Old December 16th 03, 08:39 PM
babylon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Javahead -

I confess that I am not over the age you seem to have set for your
bar, but I do come from a long line of animal folks, of both the
companion and wild animal variety.

Regardless, I just want to point out that any tool or method can be
used for good or for evil in the right wrong hands. I think that
there are *definitely* people out there that use the crate as an
excuse to leave their poor dog alone for hours upon hours, but there
are also people out there that leave their dogs outside without
shelter in all weather, there are people that whack their dogs, there
are people that can turn any tool or method into a means to create
hurt or excuses for neglect. Heck, there are even people who can turn
a newsgroup into a means to attack, let alone, say, some of the
training collars out there and some of the systems that almost (and
sometimes more than almost) encourage hurting the animals.

The same is true of pretty much any teaching or training tool for
pretty much any species. I had a teacher that could turn any
classroom object into a paddle, and I had other teachers that could
turn almost any classroom situation into a learning experience in a
good way.

People who care enough to explore all the available tools and methods
throughout their careers or lives, educate themselves about methods
and equipment, and talk to other people to establish good ways to use
those items, are generally using those things in good ways. People
that read three pages of a housetraining book in the bookstore and run
out and get a crate and a puppy from a pet store probably are doing
more harm than good.

It's all in the user, IMHO, not the equipment. As the cliche goes, a
master carpenter never complains about his tools.

katie
www.katiek9.com
  #9  
Old December 16th 03, 08:39 PM
babylon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Javahead -

I confess that I am not over the age you seem to have set for your
bar, but I do come from a long line of animal folks, of both the
companion and wild animal variety.

Regardless, I just want to point out that any tool or method can be
used for good or for evil in the right wrong hands. I think that
there are *definitely* people out there that use the crate as an
excuse to leave their poor dog alone for hours upon hours, but there
are also people out there that leave their dogs outside without
shelter in all weather, there are people that whack their dogs, there
are people that can turn any tool or method into a means to create
hurt or excuses for neglect. Heck, there are even people who can turn
a newsgroup into a means to attack, let alone, say, some of the
training collars out there and some of the systems that almost (and
sometimes more than almost) encourage hurting the animals.

The same is true of pretty much any teaching or training tool for
pretty much any species. I had a teacher that could turn any
classroom object into a paddle, and I had other teachers that could
turn almost any classroom situation into a learning experience in a
good way.

People who care enough to explore all the available tools and methods
throughout their careers or lives, educate themselves about methods
and equipment, and talk to other people to establish good ways to use
those items, are generally using those things in good ways. People
that read three pages of a housetraining book in the bookstore and run
out and get a crate and a puppy from a pet store probably are doing
more harm than good.

It's all in the user, IMHO, not the equipment. As the cliche goes, a
master carpenter never complains about his tools.

katie
www.katiek9.com
  #10  
Old December 16th 03, 08:39 PM
babylon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Javahead -

I confess that I am not over the age you seem to have set for your
bar, but I do come from a long line of animal folks, of both the
companion and wild animal variety.

Regardless, I just want to point out that any tool or method can be
used for good or for evil in the right wrong hands. I think that
there are *definitely* people out there that use the crate as an
excuse to leave their poor dog alone for hours upon hours, but there
are also people out there that leave their dogs outside without
shelter in all weather, there are people that whack their dogs, there
are people that can turn any tool or method into a means to create
hurt or excuses for neglect. Heck, there are even people who can turn
a newsgroup into a means to attack, let alone, say, some of the
training collars out there and some of the systems that almost (and
sometimes more than almost) encourage hurting the animals.

The same is true of pretty much any teaching or training tool for
pretty much any species. I had a teacher that could turn any
classroom object into a paddle, and I had other teachers that could
turn almost any classroom situation into a learning experience in a
good way.

People who care enough to explore all the available tools and methods
throughout their careers or lives, educate themselves about methods
and equipment, and talk to other people to establish good ways to use
those items, are generally using those things in good ways. People
that read three pages of a housetraining book in the bookstore and run
out and get a crate and a puppy from a pet store probably are doing
more harm than good.

It's all in the user, IMHO, not the equipment. As the cliche goes, a
master carpenter never complains about his tools.

katie
www.katiek9.com
 




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