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What should be done with this dog?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 19th 07, 11:48 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Mike S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default What should be done with this dog?

There's a dog (not mine) that has gotten into a fight with another dog
(a pitbull, I think) and nearly killed it. The same dog bit a human
for standing too close to it's bone but apparently has no problem if
humans stand too close to it's food bowl. The same dog attacks and
kills other animals such as possums and squirrels depsite the fact
that it was tied to a chain. The same dog got loose and attacked a cat
that ended up dying,

I can say that in the case of it attacking the human, there were no
puncture/bite wounds, only a little scrape. However, on the person it
left a big purple bruise that was something like 6 inches in diameter.
Two to three months later the person still complains of dull pain on
occassion and says there's a light brown marking on the skin that
looks like a bruise but is most likely something permanent.

In the case of the cat, there was no broken bones, no puncture wounds,
and no internal bleeding. However, the cat was left partially
paralyzed and died a few hours later. No actual cause of death could
be found. All anyone knows is that the attack by the dog killed it.

The owner of this dog cannot admit that it was his fault. He blames it
solely on the dog. He also can't say that he is sorry. I know that he
is upset and sorry about it but cannot say it (or write it or express
it in anyway). The other family members never wanted this dog and are
now afraid of it. They now hate it for killing a poor defenseless cat.
They've only had it a year but the dog has never been aggressive to
any of them. It's been very friendly and loves human attention.

Is it unreasonable that the family members demand that this dog be
gotten rid of and taken to a local shelter? Does the family have a
right to be concerned about their safety as well as the safety for
other pets in the household?

Any opinions on what should be done with this dog? I feel I cannot
give an objective opinion and the family would like the input of other
people.

  #2  
Old February 19th 07, 12:00 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
diddy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,077
Default What should be done with this dog?

in thread oups.com: "Mike
S." whittled the following words:

There's a dog (not mine) that has gotten into a fight with another dog
(a pitbull, I think) and nearly killed it. The same dog bit a human
for standing too close to it's bone but apparently has no problem if
humans stand too close to it's food bowl. The same dog attacks and
kills other animals such as possums and squirrels depsite the fact
that it was tied to a chain. The same dog got loose and attacked a cat
that ended up dying,

I can say that in the case of it attacking the human, there were no
puncture/bite wounds, only a little scrape. However, on the person it
left a big purple bruise that was something like 6 inches in diameter.
Two to three months later the person still complains of dull pain on
occassion and says there's a light brown marking on the skin that
looks like a bruise but is most likely something permanent.

In the case of the cat, there was no broken bones, no puncture wounds,
and no internal bleeding. However, the cat was left partially
paralyzed and died a few hours later. No actual cause of death could
be found. All anyone knows is that the attack by the dog killed it.

The owner of this dog cannot admit that it was his fault. He blames it
solely on the dog. He also can't say that he is sorry. I know that he
is upset and sorry about it but cannot say it (or write it or express
it in anyway). The other family members never wanted this dog and are
now afraid of it. They now hate it for killing a poor defenseless cat.
They've only had it a year but the dog has never been aggressive to
any of them. It's been very friendly and loves human attention.

Is it unreasonable that the family members demand that this dog be
gotten rid of and taken to a local shelter? Does the family have a
right to be concerned about their safety as well as the safety for
other pets in the household?

Any opinions on what should be done with this dog? I feel I cannot
give an objective opinion and the family would like the input of other
people.



The problem I see here is the owner, not assuming responsibility. When an
owner does not assume responsibility, what are they doing to insure this
never happens again?

Dogs killing coons, possums and cats is NORMAL. The dog should not be on a
chain, and if a cat comes within reach of the dog, of course that is going
to happen. WHY would a cat owner who proclaimed to love their cat allow it
to walk within the confines of a restrained dog?

The problem isn't with the dog, it's with the CAT owner. Let the cat owner
assume responsibility. They allowed their cat to come in harms way.

So far, the only problem that I've seen is that the dog bite someone. YES
the dog needs training. In most other ways the dog seems to have good bite
inhibition. It was resource guarding a highly prized object, and yes.. the
owner needs to work with it.

The fact that the dog lives on a chain makes the dog more likely to guard
it's territory. From what I read, the dog only guards it's bone. I would
recommend a high fence for this dog. But sentencing this dog to death
(which is exactly what would happen) for a few minor infractions that can
and should be corrected seems over reactive to me.
  #3  
Old February 19th 07, 01:44 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Mike S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default What should be done with this dog?


diddy wrote:
in thread oups.com: "Mike
S." whittled the following words:

There's a dog (not mine) that has gotten into a fight with another dog
(a pitbull, I think) and nearly killed it. The same dog bit a human
for standing too close to it's bone but apparently has no problem if
humans stand too close to it's food bowl. The same dog attacks and
kills other animals such as possums and squirrels depsite the fact
that it was tied to a chain. The same dog got loose and attacked a cat
that ended up dying,

I can say that in the case of it attacking the human, there were no
puncture/bite wounds, only a little scrape. However, on the person it
left a big purple bruise that was something like 6 inches in diameter.
Two to three months later the person still complains of dull pain on
occassion and says there's a light brown marking on the skin that
looks like a bruise but is most likely something permanent.

In the case of the cat, there was no broken bones, no puncture wounds,
and no internal bleeding. However, the cat was left partially
paralyzed and died a few hours later. No actual cause of death could
be found. All anyone knows is that the attack by the dog killed it.

The owner of this dog cannot admit that it was his fault. He blames it
solely on the dog. He also can't say that he is sorry. I know that he
is upset and sorry about it but cannot say it (or write it or express
it in anyway). The other family members never wanted this dog and are
now afraid of it. They now hate it for killing a poor defenseless cat.
They've only had it a year but the dog has never been aggressive to
any of them. It's been very friendly and loves human attention.

Is it unreasonable that the family members demand that this dog be
gotten rid of and taken to a local shelter? Does the family have a
right to be concerned about their safety as well as the safety for
other pets in the household?

Any opinions on what should be done with this dog? I feel I cannot
give an objective opinion and the family would like the input of other
people.



The problem I see here is the owner, not assuming responsibility. When an
owner does not assume responsibility, what are they doing to insure this
never happens again?

Dogs killing coons, possums and cats is NORMAL. The dog should not be on a
chain, and if a cat comes within reach of the dog, of course that is going
to happen. WHY would a cat owner who proclaimed to love their cat allow it
to walk within the confines of a restrained dog?

The problem isn't with the dog, it's with the CAT owner. Let the cat owner
assume responsibility. They allowed their cat to come in harms way.

So far, the only problem that I've seen is that the dog bite someone. YES
the dog needs training. In most other ways the dog seems to have good bite
inhibition. It was resource guarding a highly prized object, and yes.. the
owner needs to work with it.

The fact that the dog lives on a chain makes the dog more likely to guard
it's territory. From what I read, the dog only guards it's bone. I would
recommend a high fence for this dog. But sentencing this dog to death
(which is exactly what would happen) for a few minor infractions that can
and should be corrected seems over reactive to me.



I'm sorry, I failed to properly explain. At the time the dog attacked
the cat, the owner had let the dog loose, something he never does. The
cat was on it's own property, in it's own little area or safety zone.
The dog came into the cat's area, chased, and attacked the cat. The
cat would never ever go near that dog, it was afraid of that dog. The
other family members had a strong feeling that if that dog ever got
loose, it would kill a cat if it could and that it would kill this
specific cat. Those thoughts had never occured to the dog owner.

  #4  
Old February 19th 07, 01:52 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
diddy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,077
Default What should be done with this dog?

in thread oups.com:
"Mike S." whittled the following words:

diddy wrote:
in thread oups.com:
"Mike S." whittled the following words:

There's a dog (not mine) that has gotten into a fight with another
dog (a pitbull, I think) and nearly killed it. The same dog bit a
human for standing too close to it's bone but apparently has no
problem if humans stand too close to it's food bowl. The same dog
attacks and kills other animals such as possums and squirrels
depsite the fact that it was tied to a chain. The same dog got
loose and attacked a cat that ended up dying,

I can say that in the case of it attacking the human, there were no
puncture/bite wounds, only a little scrape. However, on the person
it left a big purple bruise that was something like 6 inches in
diameter. Two to three months later the person still complains of
dull pain on occassion and says there's a light brown marking on
the skin that looks like a bruise but is most likely something
permanent.

In the case of the cat, there was no broken bones, no puncture
wounds, and no internal bleeding. However, the cat was left
partially paralyzed and died a few hours later. No actual cause of
death could be found. All anyone knows is that the attack by the
dog killed it.

The owner of this dog cannot admit that it was his fault. He blames
it solely on the dog. He also can't say that he is sorry. I know
that he is upset and sorry about it but cannot say it (or write it
or express it in anyway). The other family members never wanted
this dog and are now afraid of it. They now hate it for killing a
poor defenseless cat. They've only had it a year but the dog has
never been aggressive to any of them. It's been very friendly and
loves human attention.

Is it unreasonable that the family members demand that this dog be
gotten rid of and taken to a local shelter? Does the family have a
right to be concerned about their safety as well as the safety for
other pets in the household?

Any opinions on what should be done with this dog? I feel I cannot
give an objective opinion and the family would like the input of
other people.



The problem I see here is the owner, not assuming responsibility.
When an owner does not assume responsibility, what are they doing to
insure this never happens again?

Dogs killing coons, possums and cats is NORMAL. The dog should not be
on a chain, and if a cat comes within reach of the dog, of course
that is going to happen. WHY would a cat owner who proclaimed to love
their cat allow it to walk within the confines of a restrained dog?

The problem isn't with the dog, it's with the CAT owner. Let the cat
owner assume responsibility. They allowed their cat to come in harms
way.

So far, the only problem that I've seen is that the dog bite someone.
YES the dog needs training. In most other ways the dog seems to have
good bite inhibition. It was resource guarding a highly prized
object, and yes.. the owner needs to work with it.

The fact that the dog lives on a chain makes the dog more likely to
guard it's territory. From what I read, the dog only guards it's
bone. I would recommend a high fence for this dog. But sentencing
this dog to death (which is exactly what would happen) for a few
minor infractions that can and should be corrected seems over
reactive to me.



I'm sorry, I failed to properly explain. At the time the dog attacked
the cat, the owner had let the dog loose, something he never does. The
cat was on it's own property, in it's own little area or safety zone.
The dog came into the cat's area, chased, and attacked the cat. The
cat would never ever go near that dog, it was afraid of that dog. The
other family members had a strong feeling that if that dog ever got
loose, it would kill a cat if it could and that it would kill this
specific cat. Those thoughts had never occured to the dog owner.



AGAIN....
The problem is the OWNER, NOT the dog. The owner should be sued, fined for
having a dog at large, and the cat owners file a civil suit.

AGAIN..
IF a cat owner allows it's cat out running at large, the cat owner assumes
risk that the cat be a victim to coyotes, other dogs, cars, etc and
devalues the cat's life in favor of quality of life (the privilege to be
free) (if you like your pet be it bird, cat, dog, pet mouse, gold fish,
etc.. you keep it safe)
  #5  
Old February 19th 07, 01:57 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,732
Default What should be done with this dog?

In article .com,
Mike S. wrote:
Those thoughts had never occured to the dog owner.


It sounds like one of the worst possible situations - a dog
that bites people and kills cats and an irresponsible owner.
Your friend needs to understand that he is legally
responsible for his dog and the things his dog does. The
consequences can range from lawsuits to the seizure and
euthanasia of the dog. Depending where he lives, if the dog
attacks a person your friend can end up in jail.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle
  #6  
Old February 19th 07, 02:53 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 937
Default What should be done with this dog?

On Feb 19, 7:52 am, diddy wrote:
in oglegroups.com:
"Mike S." whittled the following words:



diddy wrote:
in oglegroups.com:
"Mike S." whittled the following words:


There's a dog (not mine) that has gotten into a fight with another
dog (a pitbull, I think) and nearly killed it. The same dog bit a
human for standing too close to it's bone but apparently has no
problem if humans stand too close to it's food bowl. The same dog
attacks and kills other animals such as possums and squirrels
depsite the fact that it was tied to a chain. The same dog got
loose and attacked a cat that ended up dying,


I can say that in the case of it attacking the human, there were no
puncture/bite wounds, only a little scrape. However, on the person
it left a big purple bruise that was something like 6 inches in
diameter. Two to three months later the person still complains of
dull pain on occassion and says there's a light brown marking on
the skin that looks like a bruise but is most likely something
permanent.


In the case of the cat, there was no broken bones, no puncture
wounds, and no internal bleeding. However, the cat was left
partially paralyzed and died a few hours later. No actual cause of
death could be found. All anyone knows is that the attack by the
dog killed it.


The owner of this dog cannot admit that it was his fault. He blames
it solely on the dog. He also can't say that he is sorry. I know
that he is upset and sorry about it but cannot say it (or write it
or express it in anyway). The other family members never wanted
this dog and are now afraid of it. They now hate it for killing a
poor defenseless cat. They've only had it a year but the dog has
never been aggressive to any of them. It's been very friendly and
loves human attention.


Is it unreasonable that the family members demand that this dog be
gotten rid of and taken to a local shelter? Does the family have a
right to be concerned about their safety as well as the safety for
other pets in the household?


Any opinions on what should be done with this dog? I feel I cannot
give an objective opinion and the family would like the input of
other people.


The problem I see here is the owner, not assuming responsibility.
When an owner does not assume responsibility, what are they doing to
insure this never happens again?


Dogs killing coons, possums and cats is NORMAL. The dog should not be
on a chain, and if a cat comes within reach of the dog, of course
that is going to happen. WHY would a cat owner who proclaimed to love
their cat allow it to walk within the confines of a restrained dog?


The problem isn't with the dog, it's with the CAT owner. Let the cat
owner assume responsibility. They allowed their cat to come in harms
way.


So far, the only problem that I've seen is that the dog bite someone.
YES the dog needs training. In most other ways the dog seems to have
good bite inhibition. It was resource guarding a highly prized
object, and yes.. the owner needs to work with it.


The fact that the dog lives on a chain makes the dog more likely to
guard it's territory. From what I read, the dog only guards it's
bone. I would recommend a high fence for this dog. But sentencing
this dog to death (which is exactly what would happen) for a few
minor infractions that can and should be corrected seems over
reactive to me.


I'm sorry, I failed to properly explain. At the time the dog attacked
the cat, the owner had let the dog loose, something he never does. The
cat was on it's own property, in it's own little area or safety zone.
The dog came into the cat's area, chased, and attacked the cat. The
cat would never ever go near that dog, it was afraid of that dog. The
other family members had a strong feeling that if that dog ever got
loose, it would kill a cat if it could and that it would kill this
specific cat. Those thoughts had never occured to the dog owner.


AGAIN....
The problem is the OWNER, NOT the dog. The owner should be sued, fined for
having a dog at large, and the cat owners file a civil suit.

AGAIN..
IF a cat owner allows it's cat out running at large, the cat owner assumes
risk that the cat be a victim to coyotes, other dogs, cars, etc and
devalues the cat's life in favor of quality of life (the privilege to be
free) (if you like your pet be it bird, cat, dog, pet mouse, gold fish,
etc.. you keep it safe)


I agree. It sounds to me that there are several faults in each
instance. I don't think the dog should go to a shelter which would be
a death sentence, but instead the owner needs to accept that he has a
problem dog that needs work. A minor injury from a single resource
guarding incident is not cause to have a dog put to sleep in my book.
Attacking smaller animals is normal prey drive for most dogs. In the
instance of the cat, the dog should not have been let loose, big
mistake for the owner. But also, the cat shouldn't be outside.
Domesticated cats are far too small to defend themselves against
several things which can be encountered outside. As far as the dog
fight is concerned, first off the fact that you think the other dog
was a pit bull is irrelevant since it is not the dog in question.
Second off, you don't give any information about the fight, ie. Who
started it, what caused it, were the dogs familiar with each other,
were either of the dogs at large on the other dog's territory. I
would say, in most cases a single dog fight is something to be aware
of but not a death warrant. My current mutt came from a rescue group,
and while he was there he got in a fight with a rottweiler. Who
started it, no one knows because the foster left the two of them alone
together unsupervised. Who was at fault, the foster. In the case of
my dog, he is dog aggressive, but that doesn't mean he needs to be put
to sleep. He lives a perfectly happy life with me, and he will
continue to do so as long as I continue to be a responsible owner.

The only real problem I see here is you have an owner who will not
take responsibility for his dog. If he does not soon, he risks severe
financial repercussions as he appears to have gotten off lucky with
the cat incident. If he cannot take responsibility for the dog, I
feel he should not have the dog because of the potential risk it poses
to other animals, I doubt it actually poses a risk to people, but
keeping it on a chain will only serve to elevate his resource guarding
problems until it could become a serious risk. Unfortunately, if he
gets rid of his dog, it will most likely be a death sentence for the
dog. If that is the case, hopefully he will not get another dog until
he is responsible enough to properly take care of one. Even a toy
breed can be dangerous in a poor owner's hands. However, typical
owners of problem dogs don't learn and get another one very similar to
their last one only to have it develop the same problems and yet won't
realize the common link behind the problem is themselves.

Nick

  #7  
Old February 19th 07, 04:20 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
flick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 568
Default What should be done with this dog?

"Mike S." wrote in message
oups.com...
There's a dog (not mine) that has gotten into a fight with another dog
(a pitbull, I think) and nearly killed it. The same dog bit a human
for standing too close to it's bone but apparently has no problem if
humans stand too close to it's food bowl. The same dog attacks and
kills other animals such as possums and squirrels depsite the fact
that it was tied to a chain. The same dog got loose and attacked a cat
that ended up dying,

I can say that in the case of it attacking the human, there were no
puncture/bite wounds, only a little scrape. However, on the person it
left a big purple bruise that was something like 6 inches in diameter.
Two to three months later the person still complains of dull pain on
occassion and says there's a light brown marking on the skin that
looks like a bruise but is most likely something permanent.

In the case of the cat, there was no broken bones, no puncture wounds,
and no internal bleeding. However, the cat was left partially
paralyzed and died a few hours later. No actual cause of death could
be found. All anyone knows is that the attack by the dog killed it.

The owner of this dog cannot admit that it was his fault. He blames it
solely on the dog. He also can't say that he is sorry. I know that he
is upset and sorry about it but cannot say it (or write it or express
it in anyway). The other family members never wanted this dog and are
now afraid of it. They now hate it for killing a poor defenseless cat.
They've only had it a year but the dog has never been aggressive to
any of them. It's been very friendly and loves human attention.

Is it unreasonable that the family members demand that this dog be
gotten rid of and taken to a local shelter? Does the family have a
right to be concerned about their safety as well as the safety for
other pets in the household?

Any opinions on what should be done with this dog? I feel I cannot
give an objective opinion and the family would like the input of other
people.


Basically, the dog should be living in the house, and taken out for walks on
a leash. The yard should be securely fenced, and the dog should never be
out there unsupervised.

The cat owner should call the law on the dog owner, since the attack took
place when the dog was off its own property. You aren't allowed to let your
animals run at large. Period.

The dog owner should be living out in the yard on a heavy chain. Barring
that, a heavy fine might knock some sense into the doofus' head.

I'm with diddy, it doesn't sound to me either like this dog is necessarily
dangerous to the family members.

I'll add my voice, dogs kill other animals if they get the chance. They
aren't children, y'know. They're dogs. Most of them still have a hunting
instinct. I hate it when people think because a dog will chase and kill
smaller animals, or even fight with other dogs, that means it's dangerous to
people. Those are different behaviors.

The dog needs to be taken to obedience classes by a family member. This is
definitely a management problem, not a "dangerous dog" problem, from what
you've written.

flick 100785


  #8  
Old February 19th 07, 04:23 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Lynne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,609
Default What should be done with this dog?

on Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:48:00 GMT, "Mike S."
wrote:

There's a dog (not mine) that has gotten into a fight with another dog
(a pitbull, I think) and nearly killed it. The same dog bit a human
for standing too close to it's bone but apparently has no problem if
humans stand too close to it's food bowl. The same dog attacks and
kills other animals such as possums and squirrels depsite the fact
that it was tied to a chain. The same dog got loose and attacked a cat
that ended up dying,


Is this the same dog that bit you, the dog that belongs to your father?

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.p...thread/thread/
3d333c23f794c696/4d67cdb6f229a667#4d67cdb6f229a667

I'm sorry about the cat, YOUR cat. He may have had a chance at surviving
with proper treatment, but maybe not.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.p...wse_thread/thr
ead/2a1b6cce331b4602/4ad515e20a80d618#4ad515e20a80d618

Your family pet situation sounds like a complete disaster.

--
Lynne
  #9  
Old February 19th 07, 04:47 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Michael A. Ball
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 311
Default What should be done with this dog?

On 19 Feb 2007 02:48:00 -0800, "Mike S."
wrote:

There's a dog (not mine) that has gotten into a fight with another dog
(a pitbull, I think) and nearly killed it...

In the case of the cat, there was no broken bones, no puncture wounds,
and no internal bleeding. However, the cat was left partially
paralyzed and died a few hours later. No actual cause of death could
be found. All anyone knows is that the attack by the dog killed it.

Is it unreasonable that the family members demand that this dog be
gotten rid of and taken to a local shelter? Does the family have a
right to be concerned about their safety as well as the safety for
other pets in the household?

Any opinions on what should be done with this dog?...


Perhaps the best way to make a dog become dangerous is to chain it out
in the yard. A dog that can kill a Pit Bull is one rugged dog!

As for prey drive, when I take my dogs out, it looks like we're out for
a walk. In reality, they are on a hunting expedition--every time.

The six inch diameter bruise you mentioned will go away. The body just
needs time to clean up all those dead cells.

Its unfortunate that the dog is getting blamed for the death of a cat
that bears no sign of damage by the dog. Of course internal damage can
be done without breaking the skin-as with the person who was bruised. As
I recall, feline rib cages are quite flexible.

The family does have a right to be concerned. A lawsuit could render
them homeless; and it seems there will be a lawsuit, in just a matter of
time. Seeing that the owner can't express any contrition [a flaw which a
lawsuit will probably correct], the dog should be taken to the animal
shelter. And yes, it is almost a 100% certainty that it will be killed.
It will become a statistic, a victim of another ignorant and
irresponsible dog owner.

Please, tell your friend not to think ill of this dog: this is not the
dog's fault. Dogs become whatever we make of them--or fail to make of
them. :-(


___________________
A dog's life is too short; their only fault really.
 




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