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Shaving dogs



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 28th 08, 12:54 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Melinda Shore
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Posts: 7,732
Default Shaving dogs

In article jjWGj.2344$_v3.2040@edtnps90,
Dale Atkin wrote:
Not sure I follow this. The radiative abilities are a function of surface
area.


Right, and you'd expect that if what you're suggesting were
true, dogs would be losing heat through their hair in cold
weather. They appear not to be.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #12  
Old March 28th 08, 04:12 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Dale Atkin
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Posts: 324
Default Shaving dogs


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article jjWGj.2344$_v3.2040@edtnps90,
Dale Atkin wrote:
Not sure I follow this. The radiative abilities are a function of surface
area.


Right, and you'd expect that if what you're suggesting were
true, dogs would be losing heat through their hair in cold
weather. They appear not to be.


It all depends on how they are holding their hair. I'm thinking along the
lines of a bird ruffling up his feathers when he's cold, or you getting
'goose bumps'. (see
http://anthropology.si.edu/HumanOrig...goosebumps.htm ). Hold your hair
in one way, and you maximize the insulating ability, hold the hair in
another way, and you minimize the heating ability/maximize the cooling
ability. Actually goose bumps probably aren't the best example, as our own
'fur' is so sparse, I doubt it has much impact on our heating/cooling
ability, in fact I'd bet it cools more than heats, in actuality, but if the
hair were thicker...

In the context of the dog, in order maximize cooling ability, you want to
minimize the ability to trap air, while maintaining a large surface area.
This probably means a haircut, but not a shave.

Dale


  #13  
Old March 28th 08, 05:49 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
William Clodius
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Posts: 295
Default Shaving dogs

Dale Atkin wrote:

I've never bought the idea of the hair being necessary to protect the dog
from heat. Dogs have an internal temp of 102 and, for the vast majority
of the time, the environment has a lesser temp. In warm environmental
temps (60 & above) the dog (depending on his breed & coat) is trying to
remove heat from his body. Insulation is good for keeping heat in but
(duh) lousy for letting heat out. If a slick haired dog, say a Viszla,
has been running hard and is hot, throwing an insulated coat on him will
not make him cooler.


**Warning: The following is based solely on intuition, but may include
points worth considering.**

I think you're missing the possibility of the hair acting as a radiator.
Sticking up hair increases the surface area over which heat can be disapated
in to the cooler environment. (this is comming from my physics background
rather than my biology back ground now).


I believe the hair will behave as a very poor radiator. Hair is a very
poor thermal conductor, otherwise it would be a poor insulator. For a
dog with long hair most of the radiation leaving the hair will be
absorbed by other hair. Any good radiator is also a good absorber.

Guys who vary between having and not having a beard can think of how cold
the 'coated' part of your face gets when you shave in the winter. Its not
that its being exposed to more cool air, rather its loosing more heat
because the stubble is pointing straight out from the skin.


Rather most of the heat radiated by the skin is not being reabsorbed and
reemitted by the hair in the beard back to the skin. And it is also
loosing more heat to the air as heated air is no longer trapped by the
beard's hair pockets.

There is of course the competing, insulating effect of the hair, which is
mostly dependent on its ability to trap air pockets. The balance between
this is going to have an impact on the dog's thermoregulatory ability (i.e.
adjusting how he 'holds' his hair to either hold in the air or allow the
hairs to act as little radiators).

I think a big determinant will be the skin underneath. Is the dog going to
be prone to a sun burn if you shave him? What's his skin like? If there is
little to no pigment in the skin, I think you're just asking for trouble. In
this case the skin isn't designed for direct exposure to the sun, and will
likely burn much more readily.

Dale

  #14  
Old March 28th 08, 05:49 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
William Clodius
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Posts: 295
Default Shaving dogs

Suja wrote:

There is a young lady at the dog park with a Husky. She's about to shave
the poor dog down because her dad doesn't want to deal with the dog hair,
and now that it's no longer cold, he says the dog doesn't need it (in fact
that the dog would be more comfortable without hair). I think we've
discussed before how the whole coat is part of the thermoregulatory
mechanism of dogs, and shaving can impact their ability to control their
body temperature, adversely. She may be able to convince her dad if she can
show something along the lines of a study (or half a dozen) that demonstrate
this. I checked the archives, but couldn't find anything, and generic
Google searches aren't yielding it either. If anyone has the information
handy, could you please let me know?

Suja


I don't know of any data. I suspect if there were the answer would be a
rousing "It depends".

What color is the dog's skin? A dark skin should be highly resistent to
sunburn, though insects could still be a problem.

How close a shaving? A true shave will leave a lot of skin exposed to
sun and insects, a quarter inch might leave good cover still on the
skin. I know several spitz breeds and mixes that get extremely short
cuts this time of year with no known problems. I don't know any that get
truly shaved.

When in the year and what latitude? At my latitude a dog that is outside
a lot in the afternoon right now, with light skin, would get badly
burned. A dog in Maine could probably get shaved right now and would
have all the coat grown back in before sunburn is a problem.

What is the dog's lifestyle? Is he inside the house when the owners
aren't home, so that he is only outside when the sun is low? What sorts
of insects is he commonly exposed to? Do they go to the woods often
where his skin can be scratched by branches?

How often are they going to shave him? When I had one I think my beard
grew about half an inch a week. It certainly needed trimming more than
once a week. I suspect a dog's coat would be similar. As Matt notes they
will probably find that the short hair is a different kind of problem.
and not a lesser one. Are they prepared to shave him every two weeks or
so?
 




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