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#21
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Torn dew claw
"Mary Healey" wrote in message .4... "pfoley" wrote : ...People get information from different experts; I got mine from the vet; My vet refuses to take the dews off most dogs. She's very firm in her opinion that removing them is unnecessary in most cases. Supplementing that expert opinion, I've also seen my dogs use their front dews to manipulate toys and chewies. The come in with mud on their dews after a rabbit (squirrel, chipmunk, cat) chase, or a vigorous round of frisbee. Dewclaw trivia: "The Lundehund certainly has the most interesting feet in dogdom. Small- bodied for agility among the rocks, the breed has been selected for polydactylism (supernumerary toes), so that it has at least two large functional dewclaws and up to eight plantar cushions per foot." from http://www.thebreedsofdogs.com/LUNDEHUND.htm The AKC Briard standard says: "two dewclaws are required on each rear leg, placed low on the leg, giving a wide base to the foot. Occasionally the nail may break off completely. The dog shall not be penalized for the missing nail so long as the digit itself is present. Ideally the dewclaws form additional functioning toes. Disqualification --anything less than two dewclaws on each rear leg." ...If I didn't make it clear in the first message I am sure they got it later on after the abundance of messages questioning and attacking me. So now you understand why your replies are questioned -- the information you provide initially is incomplete. uhh - no I don't; not every dog is into agility; my dog is not. I am satisfied with the results. I am glad you are happy with yours. Give it up. |
#22
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Torn dew claw
Melinda Shore wrote:
In article et, pfoley wrote: I just listened to the experts. Well, either they led you astray or you misunderstood what they were saying (I agree that you should remove dewclaws that are only being held on by skin and ligament, and perhaps that's what they may have been talking about). People are making decisions about their dog's health based on stuff they read here, and while it may be advantageous to you to let misinformation go unchallenged, it's not good for the dogs. "Experts" are often people who are actually parroting what others have told them, just as pfoley is doing. They have no real cases or data to back up their statements, just stories of "I heard of a dog who belonged to a person somewhere who ripped out a dew claw..." The important thing to remember in this beyond the bitching back and forth is that dewclaws are not.not.not useless appendages. They are the dog's "thumb." Looking at the dog standing still, it can be very difficult to understand that these digits DO have a useful function. Front dew claws are almost always attached with muscle, bone, and ligaments. Dogs do more than use these claws to do things like hold a bone still. At a flat run and when turning, or when landing off of a jump, a dog will often put the entire palmar surface of its foot down on the ground for an instant. It usually happens very quickly at that speed so we really never "see" it unless the dog is particularly weak in the pastern. But photos reveal the truth, and anybody who has had a dog come back from a run with that small stopper pad scuffed, muddied or bloodied *should* understand it though they often don't seem to make the connection. Cutting off the dew claws often removes a functional structure, and I personally wonder if it may contribute to some of the athletic injuries we see these days. If I ever breed another litter (not likely, but who knows), I will leave the dew claws on. Dew claws DO need special trimming attention to make sure they don't curve into claws that are easily hung. But I've come to believe that they should stay. |
#23
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Torn dew claw
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:59:46 GMT, "pfoley"
wrote: Wouldn't it be more advantageous to the OP if everyone just stated their own opinions and ideas to the OP, instead of trying to start something with a responder, whom they disagree with. It is more advantageous to the OP if people qualify their responses for better accuracy. So, for example, you could say, "I am not a vet, but my vet told me..." or "what worked for me was..." or "I've heard that..." When you overstate your position or your qualifications, it might make it easier for you, but it doesn't give an advantage to the OP. Their interests are best served by accuracy so they can better weigh the opinions and do what is best for their dog. -- Paula "Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay |
#24
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To PFoley - Torn dew claw
Thanks very much for your response. I honestly don't understand why
everyone is jumping down your throat though. I spoke with my vet today who wondered why my rescued dog's front dew claws (she has no back ones) weren't removed when she was first brought into rescue which is when she had her teeth cleaned and spaying done. My vet has also performed dew claw removal on quite a few rescued dogs himself. As far as I'm concerned, my dog's dew claws serve no useful purpose. She has a tendency to avoid chewing on a bone or rawhide as though she's afraid of injuring them as they appear to be quite sensitive for her. She is constantly running through the woods over branches, logs, and underbrush as well and could easily incur torn claws that way. I've still not made up my mind 100% yet whether or not to go ahead with surgery as I wanted to speak with others whose dogs have had theirs done first, though didn't expect to see such harsh criticism here. To each his own I guess. I know my dog is not a carbon copy of every other dog out there and even though there are dogs that probably do use their claws for certain things like playing, grasping objects etc. my dog certainly doesn't. So thanks again for your input. I've got an appt. w/ the vet on Sunday to assess my dog. Cheers ~ |
#25
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To PFoley - Torn dew claw
Thanks very much for your response. I honestly don't understand why
everyone is jumping down your throat though. I spoke with my vet today who wondered why my rescued dog's front dew claws (she has no back ones) weren't removed when she was first brought into rescue which is when she had her teeth cleaned and spaying done. My vet has also performed dew claw removal on quite a few rescued dogs himself. As far as I'm concerned, my dog's dew claws serve no useful purpose. She has a tendency to avoid chewing on a bone or rawhide as though she's afraid of injuring them as they appear to be quite sensitive for her. She is constantly running through the woods over branches, logs, and underbrush as well and could easily incur torn claws that way. I've still not made up my mind 100% yet whether or not to go ahead with surgery as I wanted to speak with others whose dogs have had theirs done first, though didn't expect to see such harsh criticism here. To each his own I guess. I know my dog is not a carbon copy of every other dog out there and even though there are dogs that probably do use their claws for certain things like playing, grasping objects etc. my dog certainly doesn't. So thanks again for your input. I've got an appt. w/ the vet on Sunday to assess my dog. Cheers ~ |
#26
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Torn dew claw
Mary Healey wrote: "pfoley" wrote : ...People get information from different experts; I got mine from the vet; My vet refuses to take the dews off most dogs. She's very firm in her opinion that removing them is unnecessary in most cases. I missed the OP, so I'll throw my response in here. It is routine and standard among working retriever breeders to remove front dewclaws at 3-5 days of age. The stated reason is to prevent future injuries, which are considered serious. A relevant feature of injuries to working retrievers is that as the dogs do much of their work in remote locations and on weekends, it may be many hours before they can be seen by a vet. Any injury that leads to shock is potentially life- threatening. Hind dewclaws, if present, are also removed. Amy Dahl |
#27
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Torn dew claw
in thread : Amy Dahl
whittled the following words: Mary Healey wrote: "pfoley" wrote : ...People get information from different experts; I got mine from the vet; My vet refuses to take the dews off most dogs. She's very firm in her opinion that removing them is unnecessary in most cases. I missed the OP, so I'll throw my response in here. It is routine and standard among working retriever breeders to remove front dewclaws at 3-5 days of age. The stated reason is to prevent future injuries, which are considered serious. A relevant feature of injuries to working retrievers is that as the dogs do much of their work in remote locations and on weekends, it may be many hours before they can be seen by a vet. Any injury that leads to shock is potentially life- threatening. Hind dewclaws, if present, are also removed. Amy Dahl Search Dogs generally have them removed also. slipping and sliding through rubble piles of glass and metal makes dewclaws very vulnerable. |
#28
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To PFoley - Torn dew claw
DeeDee wrote: Thanks very much for your response. I honestly don't understand why everyone is jumping down your throat though. I spoke with my vet today who wondered why my rescued dog's front dew claws (she has no back ones) weren't removed when she was first brought into rescue which is when she had her teeth cleaned and spaying done. My vet has also performed dew claw removal on quite a few rescued dogs himself. One of the vets at the practice I use appears to be quite a skilful surgeon. He told me of his opinion that dewclaw removal on a mature dog is his least favorite of all surgeries. Apparently the well-developed bone and other structures make it difficult. A very different view from that of your vet. Perhaps whoever made the initial decision was of like mind with my vet. I posted elsewhere about removing dewclaws in retriever puppies. If, however, I adopted or inherited an adult retriever with dewclaws, I would leave them intact. While injury is a possibility, I don't believe the probability is high, and surgery involves risk as well. Amy Dahl |
#29
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Torn dew claw
in thread ups.com:
"DeeDee" whittled the following words: Hi all, I took my Terrier/Chihuahua mix Mimi to the groomers today to have her claws trimmed. I suggested to the groomer that Mimi be muzzled as I was worried that she may bite as she HATES going there, even though I trust the groomers will do a great job. Once the muzzle was put on, Mimi frantically tried to get it off and inadvertently tore off her dew claw. They treated it and once I got home, gave Mimi half a baby aspirin for pain. This is the 2nd time this year she has torn off her dew claw. Has anyone else had any problems with their dogs tearing their dew claws off more than once? Anyone ever have the dew claws surgically removed to prevent future injuries? Thanks. Since the dog has a history of tearing it two times in a single year, your dog obviously participates inactivities that put it at risk and the dewclaw construction is such that it's likely to catch and tear. It seems that rather than risk painful tears and healing periods, Dew Claw removal would be prudent in this case. Humane amputation under anesthesia followed with painkillers seems far kinder that subjecting her to repeated tears. |
#30
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To PFoley - Torn dew claw
Amy Dahl wrote:
One of the vets at the practice I use appears to be quite a skilful surgeon. He told me of his opinion that dewclaw removal on a mature dog is his least favorite of all surgeries. Apparently the well-developed bone and other structures make it difficult. A very different view from that of your vet. Perhaps whoever made the initial decision was of like mind with my vet. I posted elsewhere about removing dewclaws in retriever puppies. If, however, I adopted or inherited an adult retriever with dewclaws, I would leave them intact. While injury is a possibility, I don't believe the probability is high, and surgery involves risk as well. Amy Dahl This is a very informative thread. I always assumed dew claws should be removed when pups are first born. I adopted my beagle/hound(?) mix with dew claws in tact and have always been concerned about them since we spend a lot of time hiking/running in the woods. She has so far not had a single issue, and now I'm glad she wasn't mutilated unnecessarily! Since I may adopt a Labrador (or a GSD or a mutt) very soon, what are the risks for retrievers with in tact dew claws and how can I minimize them? I'm not a fan of elective surgery of any kind. |
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