A Problem

I've mentioned before that Pan is a grumpy old bitch. Well, lately, I think
it's going a bit beyond that. We are dog sitting Luna, and Pan is going out
of her way to make her life miserable. She's giving her the stary eyes of
doom, growling at her at every opportunity, body blocking her, doesn't want
her on the bed, doesn't want her in the car.... Or I should say that she's
trying to do all of the above, because we've gone zero tolerance on her ass,
and she is not allowed to do what she wants. She's also become more clingy
with me, gets mopey when I spend time with Luna or even praise her, and (I
swear), seems visibly happy when Luna gets into trouble. What scared the
**** out of me is that Luna got hurt while playing, and Pan responded by
getting very mean and nasty (again, we were right there, so nothing
happened, but it could've been ugly). Basically, I don't trust her around
Luna unsupervised, so when we're not around, the two dogs are kept
separated. In the car, Luna is now riding up front while Pan and Khan
continue to ride in the back.

Pan had a geriatric panel in October and was given a clean bill of health.
I have to give the dogs their bordatella shots shortly, and I'm planning on
having her bloodwork re-run, along with a full Thyroid panel. The bigger
problem now is that we were counting on Luna's folks to watch both dogs for
us while we go to India, for 3 weeks. In light of how she's behaving, I
don't think that's going to be a good idea. I trust them to be able to
manage the situation, but it will be pretty stressful all around. This
totally sucks.

Any ideas on what else we need to do? I've never seen Pan act so jealous
and possessive and insecure before.

Suja

"Suja" wrote in message
...

snip
Any ideas on what else we need to do? I've never seen Pan act so jealous
and possessive and insecure before.

Suja



Just thinking outloud................

I know the geriatric panel came up clean, so I toss these thoughts out as
pure guesses..... is there a possiblity of some sort of physical pain that's
causing the change in behavior? Maybe an arthritic hip or something? Even
though it is an all over behavior change and doesn't seem from what you're
describing as a reaction to being touched the wrong way or anything, do you
think it might be pain related? Could there be a remote possiblility of
some sort of brain tumor? Again, just a thought (and hopefully not an
accurate one) - I have a friend who's dog's personality changed drastically
which lead them to testing that discovered a tumor.

Is it just with Luna that she acts this way, or do you see it with other
dogs and in other situations? How about with Khan?


Sue and Atty

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:54:46 -0500, "Suja" wrote:

[...]
The bigger
problem now is that we were counting on Luna's folks to watch both dogs for
us while we go to India, for 3 weeks. In light of how she's behaving, I
don't think that's going to be a good idea. I trust them to be able to
manage the situation, but it will be pretty stressful all around. This
totally sucks.

Any ideas on what else we need to do? I've never seen Pan act so jealous
and possessive and insecure before.

The lack of knowledge about your pack's dynamics aside (e.g., does Pan
act this way when Khan's not around?), she sounds like she's behaving
exactly like the "grumpy old bitch" (Hi, Melinda!) you claim she is,
so why would you be surprised?

"Grumpy old bitches" can often become even grumpier than usual (Hi,
Melinda!).

At this point in her life, absent pharmaceutical assistance, there's
little you can do about her grumpiness (if there was, you'd have done
it by now), so careful management of the situation is probably your
only, and certainly safest and least stressful option.

You're probably going to worry yourself silly about it (i.e., if you
leave Pan with Luna's owners), which would likely ruin your visit to
India. So boarding her somewhere else (perhaps together with Khan)
sounds like your best alternative.

With another (perhaps dog-less) friend, a boarding kennel, etc.

If you do consider this option, some practice laps (at your "other"
friend's place, the boarding kennel, etc.) are in order.

ASAP.

You'll want to get a good feel for how it might work out (and so will
your friend, the boarding kennel, etc.), and well before you're ready
to leave for the airport.

Nothing can ruin a vacation or trip faster than the worry about what
might (or might not) be going on back home.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

"Lately, I feel like a stranger in my own land..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpRNkgqUPT0&eurl

I am woman! Hear me cry!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYq90WLK8dE&eurl

Caught up in all the Obamamania? Read this:
http://kennethelamb.blogspot.com/200...ut-ethnic.html

In article ,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:


Nothing can ruin a vacation or trip faster than the worry about what
might (or might not) be going on back home.

I agree with this completely!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Suja wrote:

Nothing has changed between her and Khan. Her general MO at the dog park is
to ignore other dogs, but she'll try to give crap to any female dog that is
buddies with Khan. For instance, she went 6 months ignoring Ming who was a
new dog at the time, but started to intervene once she and Khan decided that
they're wrestlemania partners.

By all means, I'd have the testing done.

However, it sounds to me like bossypantsing and resource guarding.
I'd go back to basics with a pretty strict zero tolerance policy
(which you're already doing), in addition to taking all the fun
stuff away. No furniture privileges, no toys, no nothing until her
attitude improves. I'd also work on basic obedience, and giving
immediately-consumable rewards for compliance.

It also sounds to me like a consult with a behaviorist might not be
a bad idea.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

"Sue and Atty" wrote in message:

I know the geriatric panel came up clean, so I toss these thoughts out as
pure guesses..... is there a possiblity of some sort of physical pain
that's
causing the change in behavior? Maybe an arthritic hip or something?

Her gait has changed for the worse, slightly. I don't think that's what
this is, though, mostly because she is just as willing as ever to go for
hikes, and still enjoys playing with her toys and chasing balls.

Could there be a remote possiblility of
some sort of brain tumor? Again, just a thought (and hopefully not an
accurate one) - I have a friend who's dog's personality changed
drastically
which lead them to testing that discovered a tumor.

I don't know how to tell if there is a tumor or something. I'm thinking
that is not it, because she her overall behavior has remained consistant,
just not her interaction with a few select dogs.

Thinking back, there has been a deterioration in her behavior since last
November or so. When we visited my brother, she tried to push his Boston
Terrier out of the way so she could eat her kibble too (there is no love
lost between those two, but they mostly ignore each other; if anything,
Shazz has tried to push Pan's buttons before), and again tried to nab
Spike's bone right from underneath him, on New Year's.

Is it just with Luna that she acts this way, or do you see it with other
dogs and in other situations? How about with Khan?

Nothing has changed between her and Khan. Her general MO at the dog park is
to ignore other dogs, but she'll try to give crap to any female dog that is
buddies with Khan. For instance, she went 6 months ignoring Ming who was a
new dog at the time, but started to intervene once she and Khan decided that
they're wrestlemania partners.

Suja

"Janet Boss" wrote in message:

I agree with this completely!

Both dogs have been boarded before, so that's not going to be a problem.
They would both be happier spending time with people they know and living in
a house and having Khan's dietary requirements met, but you're both right,
the peace of mind we would've had by leaving them with friends would vanish
in a second with the worry over the health and well-being of their dogs.
None of us would be able to forgive ourselves if one of their dogs got hurt.

We have watched Luna so many times now, and she's just an absolute love. As
we leave the dog park, she tries to jump into my car, every time. I don't
want her people to not be able to leave her with us just because we can't
leave our dogs with them. Her mom especially is going to be so
disappointed. She's been wanting a Dane for such a long time, and has a
soft spot for Pan, and she's been looking forward to this visit for a really
long time.

I lost my wallet and all its contents, so I need to wait until my new CC
gets here before making reservations at the kennel.

Suja

"Suja" wrote in message
...

Could there be a remote possiblility of
some sort of brain tumor? Again, just a thought (and hopefully not an
accurate one) - I have a friend who's dog's personality changed
drastically
which lead them to testing that discovered a tumor.

I don't know how to tell if there is a tumor or something. I'm thinking
that is not it, because she her overall behavior has remained consistant,
just not her interaction with a few select dogs.

I think a CAT scan is what they did or MRI or one of those types of things.
But her dog's behavior change was an overall behavior change.

Sue and Atty

"Shelly" wrote in message:

By all means, I'd have the testing done.

That's a peace of mind thing. I would love for this to be general
bitchiness exacerbated by something like a Thyroid problem, which is
substantially easier to fix than what I think is really going on.

However, it sounds to me like bossypantsing and resource guarding.

That's what I think as well.

I'd go back to basics with a pretty strict zero tolerance policy
(which you're already doing), in addition to taking all the fun
stuff away. No furniture privileges, no toys, no nothing until her
attitude improves.

I haven't gone quite that far yet. We're reworking her obedience, giving
extra love for compliance and ignoring the third party. Although there have
been no incidents of any kind, they're also fed separately. She has cut
down substantially on the bossypantsing, but is still overly curious and
nosey about Luna. I don't think this sort of a setup will translate in a
new setting (as I said elsewhere, Luna's mom is crazy about Pan and is
likely to spoil her, which would make this worse). In the eventuality that
they do stay there, it will have to be with the understanding that the dogs
will be separated at all times when they're not under direct supervision. I
know that they know that I know my dogs and wouldn't ask for this unless I
felt it necessary, so they are likely to comply.

Khan will do just fine with them and will be better off staying there than
in a kennel (most kennels won't feed home cooked diets). But, because of
Pan's SA, she will do well only if he stays with her. So, it's either board
both dogs or board neither dog. I am about 90% sure that's what we'll do; I
just need to make sure that they won't be upset by the decision. Right
before they left, I was given the third degree about how likely it is that
we'll change our plans, and how we can't because they're already making
plans for the visit.

It also sounds to me like a consult with a behaviorist might not be
a bad idea.

That's certainly a possibility. Her behavior is very specific to specific
instances and aren't always recreatable, so we'll have to see. The good
news is that I do know where to find a good behaviorist if we need one.

Suja

"Suja" wrote in news:61u2jfF1uo4ggU1
@mid.individual.net:

However, it sounds to me like bossypantsing and resource guarding.

That's what I think as well.


Me too.

I'd go back to basics with a pretty strict zero tolerance policy
(which you're already doing), in addition to taking all the fun
stuff away. No furniture privileges, no toys, no nothing until her
attitude improves.

I haven't gone quite that far yet.

I'd do it if I were you. Zoe gets like this sometimes (not so much
anymore, but it still crops up occasionally) and makes a play for being
the boss. I instantly go into NILIF mode, or a modified version of it,
making her follow commands before getting affection, food, or treats,
taking away any toys she might snark over, including her beloved
formerly-squeaky penguin. All toys are belong to me!

That being said, I handle the increased jealousy a little differently.
With Zoe, that tends to happen if I'm really for some reason paying her
less attention than usual. I don't always notice it until she starts
moping. If she feels left out, she often won't approach me at all. So I
try to pay more attention to her, and to equalize the attention I give
all the dogs.

I mean, of course I support the health testing part. Pan may be feeling
that she doesn't like too much rambunctiousness. The randomness of it
might cause pain that's different from the hiking pain.

--
Catherine
& Zoe, Queenie, & Max, 3 black dogs of varying sizes
& Rosalie the calico cat
www.ourladyofperfection.blogspot.com