Did Cesar have to hang the husky?

Article published in Psychology Today by Marc Bekoff

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...hang-the-husky
--
Alison,

On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 00:07:29 +0100, "Alison"
wrote:

Article published in Psychology Today by Marc Bekoff

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...hang-the-husky

Several points:

1. The dog was never "hanged," as the author claimed.

2. At no time did the dog turn "blue."

3. Hanging a dog is NOT a training technique - it is a self-defence
technique.

4. At no time did Millan either provoke or prolong the attacks, as
some un-named "expert" in the article claimed.

Alison, this episode has been debated ad nauseam here in the past. Why
do you keep bringing it up? Why do people like you (and the author)
always have to resort to lies, distortions, exaggerations, loaded
terms, etc?

According to the author:

"When I speak with dog trainers I mention this video and by and large
most people agree that putting a noose around a dog's neck and yanking
them off the ground and suspending them in air is unnecessarily cruel
and abusive and that they would be really upset if this were done to
their dog."

Really? People put "nooses" around a dog's neck millions of times per
day, and without incident. But if the dog comes up the leash and tries
to take a chunk out of your face, you wouldn't use the leash to defend
yourself? Really? That would be "unnecessarily cruel"? Really? You'd
just let him take your face off, or gnaw on your arm? Really? Did you
see anyone "yanking" the dog off the ground? Really?

I know one thing, if a dog like the one in the video ever comes up the
leash and tries to take off *my* face (which is exactly what this dog
was trying to do), he's going for a ride. Yes, he would be yanked off
his feet, and maybe even suspended there for a moment or two. But my
face would remain intact. No one loves dogs more than me, but I love
my face even more.

PS: Millan has a way of using whatever tool is at his disposal
(usually whatever the dog's owner typically uses), and sometimes that
can make matters worse. He ended up using the leather "tag" end of the
leash as a combination leash and collar (in the manner of a British
slip lead). But they don't "slip", i.e., "release" very well, like a
well-made, steel-link choke collar does. That's the only real handling
mistake I think Millan made. He didn't use the right tool for the job.

Human psychologists (which is what the author is) should stick to
human psychology and leave dog training to dog trainers and animal
behaviorists.


--
Dogman

I have seen "hanging" (short period, not going to make the dog loose
consciousness, but two feet off the ground, and darn little weight still
on the back feet) used ONCE in a training session, for failure to sit
promptly. It was not my dog. It was a very soft Doberman bitch with a
very experienced owner. No aggression was shown by the dog. It was done
by a senior trainer hired by a club before I became training director.
I fired her. On the spot.

But like Dogman, I agree that the use of taking the dog's feet off the
ground in an attack situation is self-protection (or protection for
another person or dog). I have done it to one of my dogs. It did not
cure the dog of aggressive behavior, but I was uninjured and able to
remove the dog from that situation easily..... on it's own four feet.
I have seen students do the same.... as a reaction to the dog's sudden
desire for laying-on-of-teeth.... without any prior teaching or advice.
Simply as a human reaction, using what was available.

REMEMBER, Millan is not a Trainer. He is Problem-Solver, usually
working with dogs that I certainly would have nothing to do with. Or
with decent enough dogs and terminally stupid, lazy owners who have
allowed their dogs to dictate the terms of engagement.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

"Dogman" wrote in message
...

Alison, this episode has been debated ad nauseam here in the past. Why
do you keep bringing it up?

I don't "keep" bringing it up. AFAIR there was once a very long thread
about this particular incidence started by Janet about TeeVee trainers. I
do agree that CM has been discussed a lot though !
I'm just passing on dog links that comes up on forums otherwise RPDB would
be dead in the water.

On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:37:47 +0100, "Alison"
wrote:

"Dogman" wrote in message
.. .

Alison, this episode has been debated ad nauseam here in the past. Why
do you keep bringing it up?

I don't "keep" bringing it up. AFAIR there was once a very long thread
about this particular incidence started by Janet about TeeVee trainers. I
do agree that CM has been discussed a lot though !

Yeah, there was a time you couldn't make a post without mentioning his
name.

I'm just passing on dog links that comes up on forums otherwise RPDB would
be dead in the water.

It's better dead than just passing along misguided, ignorant,
untruthful gobbledygook, like your last post.

It's okay to criticize Millan, I do it myself. But it's not okay to
criticize him for things he didn't do.


--
Dogman

On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:59:48 -0400, (Jo Wolf) wrote:

I have seen "hanging" (short period, not going to make the dog loose
consciousness, but two feet off the ground, and darn little weight still
on the back feet) used ONCE in a training session, for failure to sit
promptly. It was not my dog. It was a very soft Doberman bitch with a
very experienced owner. No aggression was shown by the dog. It was done
by a senior trainer hired by a club before I became training director.
I fired her. On the spot.

Good for you! That's exactly what should have happened to him. Used
in that way, it's simply dog abuse. There's no place for dog abusers
in dog training.

But like Dogman, I agree that the use of taking the dog's feet off the
ground in an attack situation is self-protection (or protection for
another person or dog).

And at no time did Millan do that in that video. The dog was jumping
up at, and on, Millan, Millan wasn't "yanking" him off his feet. And
anyone who can't see that must be blind. Or have an agenda.

I have done it to one of my dogs. It did not
cure the dog of aggressive behavior, but I was uninjured and able to
remove the dog from that situation easily..... on it's own four feet.

And that's the whole point - to remain uninjured.

I have seen students do the same.... as a reaction to the dog's sudden
desire for laying-on-of-teeth.... without any prior teaching or advice.
Simply as a human reaction, using what was available.

Exactly.


--
Dogman

"Dogman" wrote in message
...

Yeah, there was a time you couldn't make a post without mentioning his
name.

Mainly because he was a hot topic and I was replying to those who had
already mentioned him. It's bit hard to respond to those posts without
mentioning his name.

On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 17:42:20 +0100, "Alison"
wrote:

"Dogman" wrote in message
.. .

Yeah, there was a time you couldn't make a post without mentioning his
name.

Mainly because he was a hot topic and I was replying to those who had
already mentioned him. It's bit hard to respond to those posts without
mentioning his name.

Actually, it was because you have an agenda, Alison.

You're a lot like those kids in the movie Disturbia, who tossed bags
of burning feces on this guy's front porch, just to get a reaction.

Your posts about Millan are always like those burning bags of feces.
They're intended to get a reaction, not for any serious discussion,
which is why you rarely discuss anything.

Tossing bags of burning feces is good enough for you.


--
Dogman

"Dogman" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 17:42:20 +0100, "Alison"
wrote:

Mainly because he was a hot topic and I was replying to those
who had already mentioned him. It's bit hard to respond to those
posts without mentioning his name.

Actually, it was because you have an agenda, Alison.

You're a lot like those kids in the movie Disturbia, who tossed
bags of burning feces on this guy's front porch, just to get a reaction.

Your posts about Millan are always like those burning bags of feces.
They're intended to get a reaction, not for any serious discussion,
which is why you rarely discuss anything.

Tossing bags of burning feces is good enough for you.

I agree. This video clip and the one about "dogs getting a kick out of Cesar
Millan" (my preferred title), are taken mostly out of context, and are
always used by "bleedin' hearts" who would rather have such dogs euthanized
than treating them as needed to control their dominant aggression (which
they believe does not exist). Here is a quote from the article cited by
Alison:

"The hearts of our companion animals, like our own hearts, are fragile, so
we must be gentle with them." and "Training should not mean breaking their
fragile hearts."

All dogs are NOT the same, and R+ alone will NOT work for all dogs and for
all situations. The dog featured in the episode cited, IIRC, had exhibited
dangerous aggression toward others, and Cesar was his only alternative to
being PTS. He had to provoke the dog to some extent in order to elicit the
dangerous behavior and correct it. The well-known method for dealing with
dominant aggression is cutting off the dog's air supply:
http://leerburg.com/746.htm

Perhaps he may have also exerted pressure on the carotid artery, which works
even faster. I actually saw someone do this to a fellow student, in ninth
grade, when he was attempting to beat up another student, and I was amazed
at how quickly he went down. And when he got back up, he was no longer
interested in continuing his inappropriate behavior.

But I agree that this level of "correction" is inappropriate for ordinary
training purposes. It was certainly ineffective and abusive for me to have
been pulling Muttley off his feet with a choker chain and prong collar, just
to try and make him heel. I can understand why that may have made him
aggressive. And any instructor who condones such methods should be "fired".

Here is another quote from the article:

"Stringing up dogs or other animals goes well beyond what I would accept and
if I saw someone doing this, I'd call the police immediately."

That would likely be a death sentence for the dog. See the following:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/06/1...ained-bulldog/

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

"Dogman" wrote in message
news
They're intended to get a reaction, not for any serious discussion,
which is why you rarely discuss anything.

LOL It's all there on Google . There's hardly anyone here to discuss
things with.
ali