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chilling account of a near -miss dog shooting



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 22nd 03, 03:46 PM
EmilyS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default chilling account of a near -miss dog shooting

Oakland Cop Shoots At Celebrity Pit Bull
by Hank Pellissier, special to SF Gate
Monday, September 22, 2003
©2003 SF Gate

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...rbananimal.DTL

Rupert is a famously affectionate 70-pound pit bull who's been
profiled in several TV, radio, and newspaper articles as the
"demonstration dog" of BAD RAP (www.badrap.org), the Oakland nonprofit
that educates the public on the lovability of pit bulls. Despite his
celebrity, Rupert was nearly killed early this month when an alarmed
police officer shot at him without warning. The bullet missed, but it
ricocheted into a living room where it landed two feet away from an
infant girl. This article is a composite of interviews with Amber
Neiwold (Rupert's owner, and BAD RAP's Vice President) and Donna
Reynolds (BAD RAP's Executive Director). The Oakland Police Department
was also contacted: A statement from Sergeant Pete Sarna, Chief of
Staff for the Chief of Police, is at the conclusion of this column.

Amber, how long have you been Rupert's guardian?

(Amber) I found Rupert about five years ago by a dumpster, near my
home near the Fruitvale BART. He was abused, emaciated, abandoned and
just 6 to 8 months old. He had infected bite wounds, a dislocated
shoulder, a telephone cord wrapped around his neck, and abrasions all
over one side of him -- it looked like maybe he had been thrown out of
a car.

Did Rupert recover quickly?

Yes, he did. I was actually afraid of pit bulls before I met Rupert,
but then -- I fell in love with him. Now, of course, he is a bit pudgy
and exceedingly friendly.

Tell me about the pit bull scene in Oakland. What's going on?

(Donna) Many urban kids are breeding pit bulls -- its called "Stupid
Cash" because you can sell a pit bull puppy for $50 and there can be
up to 13 pit bulls in a litter. Oakland Economics. Kids sell the
entire litter when they're just 4 weeks old, except for one female
pup, then they dump the lactating mama on the street. The female pup
is bred during her first heat -- there's a huge population out there.
The Oakland shelter is full of mostly pit bulls. It's tragic.


Do the kids make money fighting the pit bulls?

(Donna) No. There's a lot of street-corner fighting in Oakland with
pit bulls, with some betting, but most of the fighting is just
machismo. Young urban guys saying, "My dog can beat your dog!"


Is $50 for a puppy the top price?

(Donna) If pit bull puppies have "blue" coats they can get up to $500
each. Blue is the fad color now; it's a diluted black that looks like
gray. A recessive gene. Breeders are forcing the two recessives
together to get the cash crop and this is creating lots of freak dogs
with health problems, nervousness, even human aggression.

Let's get back to Rupert. Describe his personality.

(Amber) He's very charismatic. He thinks all the world is a friend,
which amazes me, because sometimes the world can be real nasty to him.
He was made President of Bad Rap in the beginning, before we had a
human president.

When did BAD RAP start? What does it do?

(Donna) My husband Tim and I have been rescuing all breeds of dogs for
17 years and we got hooked into doing solely pit bulls about five
years ago. They're addictive; they're typically love sluts and
first-class clowns.

I co-founded BAD RAP about five years ago. Since then, we've rescued
and placed about 200 pit bulls, with the help of 50 fabulous
volunteers. We've placed dogs with all kinds of people -- artists,
policemen, lawyers, school teachers.

When did Rupert become a media celebrity for BAD RAP?

(Donna) BAD RAP made Rupert our main "demo dog" after Sean Jones was
mauled by a drug dealer's defective pit bulls in June 2001. That was
also right after the Diane Whipple tragedy (involving Presa Canarios,
NOT pit bulls). The city of Richmond was thinking about banning the
breed -- people were unnecessarily afraid and over-reacting. We had to
improve the perception that people had of pit bulls, so we started
doing breed education forums. We wanted the public to see normal,
well-loved and well-socialized pit bulls, so we picked Rupert as our
primary "demo dog" because he's big, beautiful, and exceptionally
affectionate. Rupert helped break the ice for lots of people. He'll do
obedience drills in front of the camera and generally ham it up.

Tell me about Rupert's public appearances.

(Donna) Rupert has been featured in the East Bay Express, Inside
Edition, the KFOG report, and other stories. One of his finest moments
was at a demo at the Antioch Police Community Hall. Channel 2 came to
interview us; their reporter, Amber Lee, was a bit leery of Rupert so
I gently pushed her into Rupert and he responded by slobbering her
faces with kisses. She started laughing and that footage became part
of that night's top story on Eyewitness News.

Let's talk about the recent incident. How was Rupert nearly shot?

(Amber) I lived with my husband Ken, and my daughter Sasha, in an
apartment building that's part of an artist's community at San Leandro
Boulevard and 41st Street in Oakland. Officer James Smith showed up
there at 8:20 a.m. on September 3 because he needed to get a statement
from a mugging victim -- Ron -- who had been robbed the night before.
Ron also lives in our apartment building. There's a large private
courtyard in front of the apartments and the entrance to my home is
about 60 feet from the sidewalk.

There were movers there, because we were moving to Colorado the next
day. The movers were going in and out the front door, bringing in
boxes and packing supplies. The front door was open, and Rupert, who
is trained to not leave the courtyard, was hanging out with the movers
as they came and went. My other dog, Spiro, a medium-sized mixed
breed, was with Rupert. My husband had just brought some boxes inside
and he was on his way back outside when we heard a shot in the
courtyard. There had been no barking, or warning yell from the
officer.

(Donna) We were told that when Rupert saw the officer, he started
walking towards him. But Rupert never barked; witnesses will verify
this.

(Amber) I heard later from Ron -- my neighbor, who walking behind the
officer and saw everything -- that the dogs stopped walking towards
the officer when he pulled his gun out. That's when the officer pulled
the trigger. The reason the bullet missed is because the officer was
"leading" the target and the target had stopped.


Has Rupert ever reacted aggressively towards policemen?

(Amber) Oh, no, he's never shown any aggression at all. The irony is
that Rupert has worked frequently with police and with Animal Care and
Control officers. He likes people in uniform. When he saw Officer
James Smith, he probably thought, "Oh, look! A friend!"

What happened after you heard the gunshot?

(Amber) I looked outside through the window and I saw a police officer
standing in the courtyard pointing a gun toward my front door. I ran
downstairs to find my husband standing in the doorway, his hands in
the air, with the officer's gun trained on him. The officer was
yelling "Get your dog! Get your dog!" over and over, but Rupert was
nowhere to be seen. At this point I panicked, ran outside and began
looking for Rupert, who I was sure must have been the target of the
shot because I know how prejudiced police are against pit bulls. I
thought Rupert must be dying or dead from a gunshot wound. But then,
my husband told me that Rupert was already inside. I went back in and
found Rupert hiding under the stairs, thankfully unhurt.

I became very distraught that a police officer had just tried to kill
my dog, and shot a bullet toward my apartment. I picked up my baby
daughter Sasha and I went outside and asked the officer why he had
done such a thing. He told me "Back off lady, this doesn't concern
you." I said it did concern me, he'd just shot a bullet toward my
house, with my 4-month-old baby inside! He again said, "Back off
lady." He was very rude.

(Donna) The officer also kept his sunglasses on. Amber telephoned me
immediately, and I went over there to help her out.

Where did the bullet go, after missing Rupert?

(Donna) Oakland Police forensics did not find the bullet. Actually,
they barely looked for the bullet. They spent some time focusing on
where it hit the pavement; but when we asked them where the bullet
ended up, the forensics guy explained, "They go up, they come down,
you never know where they land."

(Amber) That evening Ken and I found the bullet in the living room. I
had to call the Oakland Police Department twice before anyone came
down to collect it as evidence. The second time I called they had no
record of my first call. The bullet had ricocheted off the cement by
Rupert, it hit the metal bar of the awning over our front door, and
then it blew through the living room wall, ending up under the futon
that my 4-month-old daughter was on at the time.

Why do you think the officer acted the way he did? Why did he shoot at
Rupert?


(Amber) I think he panicked. I understand that he felt alarmed, but he
had other options besides firing a gun at an occupied building. He
could have yelled "No!" or "Go home!" (which is what my Animal Control
Officer friends suggest). He was standing right between my neighbor's
van and my Subaru wagon. He could have easily jumped on top of either
vehicle. He could have run back to his own car. He could have maced
Rupert; he could have used his baton. He could have pulled his gun and
waited to see if Rupert was actually aggressive before firing. I can't
understand putting an entire apartment complex in danger. He nearly
killed a 4-month-old baby, because he was afraid of a friendly dog.

What is Officer James Smith's explanation for his behavior?

(Amber) From what I've heard, he's using the Sean Jones tragedy as the
excuse for his actions. Sean Jones was a small defenseless boy who was
attacked in the street by a drug dealer's defective dogs. Officer
Smith is a grown man, who has been trained to deal with all kinds of
dangerous and potentially dangerous situations, who was armed with
several weapons, who was standing right next to an easy means of
escape, who is sworn to protect, who holds himself out as a seasoned,
professional officer of the law, and who was dealing with a friendly
dog on private property.

Has a complaint been filed? Is there an investigation underway?

(Amber) Internal Affairs didn't return my calls for 13 days, but I
finally talked to someone on September 16. He told me that Officer
Smith's actions were appropriate because he feared for his safety. I
countered that he could have easily jumped up on my car, which he was
standing right next to. The Internal Affairs guy said that Oakland
Police Department "isn't trained to jump on cars".

(Donna) BAD RAP has talked to the Chief of Oakland Police, Chief Word,
who is taking "damage control" steps by telling us that he wants BAD
RAP to teach his officers how to conduct themselves around pit bulls.
We've already done trainings like this with the Berkeley Police. We
taught them the difference between normal pit bull behavior and an
iffy dog's behavior and how to interact with dogs they may encounter
on the street.

How dangerous are pit bulls, in your opinion?

(Donna) Pit bulls have an inbred bite inhibition in regards to human
beings, an off-switch. They're hard-wired to be soft with people. Pit
bulls are not known for human aggression -- just the opposite, in
fact.


(Amber) I'm pretty comfortable with most of the pit bulls I work with
in the shelters. There's the odd bad seed, but then I've met some
bad-seed Labradors that would take your face off if given the chance,
so I've learned not to make too many generalizations about any breed.
I judge each dog by its temperament, not by its breed. A dangerous dog
is a dangerous dog, no matter what breed it is, and dangerous dogs
come in all shapes, sizes and breeds.


Amber's family moved the next day -- September 4 -- to Colorado
because Ken acquired a job there. Now that Rupert's now longer a local
pet, who is going to replace him as BAD RAPS's top "demo dog"?


(Donna) We have two candidates -- there is Gunther, a 65-pound brown
pit, and Samson, a huge 70-pound black-and-white dog who is so calm, a
tornado could happen around him and he wouldn't be affected.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement from Sergeant Pete Sarna, Chief of Staff for the Oakland
Chief of Police: "Any time an officer discharges a gun, his supervisor
writes a report and this is forwarded up to the Chief of Police. An
inquiry is then conducted by our Firearms Discharge Review board and a
determination is made if the shooting is justified. We are going to do
a very thorough investigation into this September 3rd occurrence. The
review can take up to a month; decisions will be made at a future date
in a timely manner. A factor to consider in this case though is that
the dogs were in a location where they could have endangered children
or anybody. If the dogs had been properly restrained and controlled,
this would never have happened in the first place."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hank Pellissier -- a.k.a. Hank Hyena -- has been a columnist for
Salon.com ("Naked World"), SFGate ("Odd Barkings"), the S.F.
Metropolitan ("Frisco Utopia") and the New Mission News ("Civic
Stench"). He's also executive director of the Hyena Comedy Institute
and co-director of a preschool called The Children's Lab.


©2003 SF Gate
  #2  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:27 PM
Tara O.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'd sue in a heartbeat. This is the perfect opportunity to publicly defend
this particular Pit Bulls, if not the breed in general, and show how
dangerous fear of the breed is. If what the chief of police says is true
(there were many children around so the dogs should have been restrained)
then how is FIRING a gun in a child-populated area excused?

--
Tara


  #3  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:27 PM
Tara O.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'd sue in a heartbeat. This is the perfect opportunity to publicly defend
this particular Pit Bulls, if not the breed in general, and show how
dangerous fear of the breed is. If what the chief of police says is true
(there were many children around so the dogs should have been restrained)
then how is FIRING a gun in a child-populated area excused?

--
Tara


  #4  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:27 PM
Tara O.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'd sue in a heartbeat. This is the perfect opportunity to publicly defend
this particular Pit Bulls, if not the breed in general, and show how
dangerous fear of the breed is. If what the chief of police says is true
(there were many children around so the dogs should have been restrained)
then how is FIRING a gun in a child-populated area excused?

--
Tara


  #5  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:29 PM
c0u_ch_cam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your typical police officer is thousands of times more likely to kill an
innocent civilian than is your typical dog. Police are also thousands
of times more likely to kill YOUR dog than your average citizen.

keep your dog and your kids away from police, not pitbulls if you are
worried about safety.


michael
live...
http://dogtv.com

EmilyS wrote:
Oakland Cop Shoots At Celebrity Pit Bull
by Hank Pellissier, special to SF Gate
Monday, September 22, 2003
©2003 SF Gate

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...rbananimal.DTL

Rupert is a famously affectionate 70-pound pit bull who's been
profiled in several TV, radio, and newspaper articles as the
"demonstration dog" of BAD RAP (www.badrap.org), the Oakland nonprofit
that educates the public on the lovability of pit bulls. Despite his
celebrity, Rupert was nearly killed early this month when an alarmed
police officer shot at him without warning. The bullet missed, but it
ricocheted into a living room where it landed two feet away from an
infant girl. This article is a composite of interviews with Amber
Neiwold (Rupert's owner, and BAD RAP's Vice President) and Donna
Reynolds (BAD RAP's Executive Director). The Oakland Police Department
was also contacted: A statement from Sergeant Pete Sarna, Chief of
Staff for the Chief of Police, is at the conclusion of this column.

Amber, how long have you been Rupert's guardian?

(Amber) I found Rupert about five years ago by a dumpster, near my
home near the Fruitvale BART. He was abused, emaciated, abandoned and
just 6 to 8 months old. He had infected bite wounds, a dislocated
shoulder, a telephone cord wrapped around his neck, and abrasions all
over one side of him -- it looked like maybe he had been thrown out of
a car.

Did Rupert recover quickly?

Yes, he did. I was actually afraid of pit bulls before I met Rupert,
but then -- I fell in love with him. Now, of course, he is a bit pudgy
and exceedingly friendly.

Tell me about the pit bull scene in Oakland. What's going on?

(Donna) Many urban kids are breeding pit bulls -- its called "Stupid
Cash" because you can sell a pit bull puppy for $50 and there can be
up to 13 pit bulls in a litter. Oakland Economics. Kids sell the
entire litter when they're just 4 weeks old, except for one female
pup, then they dump the lactating mama on the street. The female pup
is bred during her first heat -- there's a huge population out there.
The Oakland shelter is full of mostly pit bulls. It's tragic.


Do the kids make money fighting the pit bulls?

(Donna) No. There's a lot of street-corner fighting in Oakland with
pit bulls, with some betting, but most of the fighting is just
machismo. Young urban guys saying, "My dog can beat your dog!"


Is $50 for a puppy the top price?

(Donna) If pit bull puppies have "blue" coats they can get up to $500
each. Blue is the fad color now; it's a diluted black that looks like
gray. A recessive gene. Breeders are forcing the two recessives
together to get the cash crop and this is creating lots of freak dogs
with health problems, nervousness, even human aggression.

Let's get back to Rupert. Describe his personality.

(Amber) He's very charismatic. He thinks all the world is a friend,
which amazes me, because sometimes the world can be real nasty to him.
He was made President of Bad Rap in the beginning, before we had a
human president.

When did BAD RAP start? What does it do?

(Donna) My husband Tim and I have been rescuing all breeds of dogs for
17 years and we got hooked into doing solely pit bulls about five
years ago. They're addictive; they're typically love sluts and
first-class clowns.

I co-founded BAD RAP about five years ago. Since then, we've rescued
and placed about 200 pit bulls, with the help of 50 fabulous
volunteers. We've placed dogs with all kinds of people -- artists,
policemen, lawyers, school teachers.

When did Rupert become a media celebrity for BAD RAP?

(Donna) BAD RAP made Rupert our main "demo dog" after Sean Jones was
mauled by a drug dealer's defective pit bulls in June 2001. That was
also right after the Diane Whipple tragedy (involving Presa Canarios,
NOT pit bulls). The city of Richmond was thinking about banning the
breed -- people were unnecessarily afraid and over-reacting. We had to
improve the perception that people had of pit bulls, so we started
doing breed education forums. We wanted the public to see normal,
well-loved and well-socialized pit bulls, so we picked Rupert as our
primary "demo dog" because he's big, beautiful, and exceptionally
affectionate. Rupert helped break the ice for lots of people. He'll do
obedience drills in front of the camera and generally ham it up.

Tell me about Rupert's public appearances.

(Donna) Rupert has been featured in the East Bay Express, Inside
Edition, the KFOG report, and other stories. One of his finest moments
was at a demo at the Antioch Police Community Hall. Channel 2 came to
interview us; their reporter, Amber Lee, was a bit leery of Rupert so
I gently pushed her into Rupert and he responded by slobbering her
faces with kisses. She started laughing and that footage became part
of that night's top story on Eyewitness News.

Let's talk about the recent incident. How was Rupert nearly shot?

(Amber) I lived with my husband Ken, and my daughter Sasha, in an
apartment building that's part of an artist's community at San Leandro
Boulevard and 41st Street in Oakland. Officer James Smith showed up
there at 8:20 a.m. on September 3 because he needed to get a statement
from a mugging victim -- Ron -- who had been robbed the night before.
Ron also lives in our apartment building. There's a large private
courtyard in front of the apartments and the entrance to my home is
about 60 feet from the sidewalk.

There were movers there, because we were moving to Colorado the next
day. The movers were going in and out the front door, bringing in
boxes and packing supplies. The front door was open, and Rupert, who
is trained to not leave the courtyard, was hanging out with the movers
as they came and went. My other dog, Spiro, a medium-sized mixed
breed, was with Rupert. My husband had just brought some boxes inside
and he was on his way back outside when we heard a shot in the
courtyard. There had been no barking, or warning yell from the
officer.

(Donna) We were told that when Rupert saw the officer, he started
walking towards him. But Rupert never barked; witnesses will verify
this.

(Amber) I heard later from Ron -- my neighbor, who walking behind the
officer and saw everything -- that the dogs stopped walking towards
the officer when he pulled his gun out. That's when the officer pulled
the trigger. The reason the bullet missed is because the officer was
"leading" the target and the target had stopped.


Has Rupert ever reacted aggressively towards policemen?

(Amber) Oh, no, he's never shown any aggression at all. The irony is
that Rupert has worked frequently with police and with Animal Care and
Control officers. He likes people in uniform. When he saw Officer
James Smith, he probably thought, "Oh, look! A friend!"

What happened after you heard the gunshot?

(Amber) I looked outside through the window and I saw a police officer
standing in the courtyard pointing a gun toward my front door. I ran
downstairs to find my husband standing in the doorway, his hands in
the air, with the officer's gun trained on him. The officer was
yelling "Get your dog! Get your dog!" over and over, but Rupert was
nowhere to be seen. At this point I panicked, ran outside and began
looking for Rupert, who I was sure must have been the target of the
shot because I know how prejudiced police are against pit bulls. I
thought Rupert must be dying or dead from a gunshot wound. But then,
my husband told me that Rupert was already inside. I went back in and
found Rupert hiding under the stairs, thankfully unhurt.

I became very distraught that a police officer had just tried to kill
my dog, and shot a bullet toward my apartment. I picked up my baby
daughter Sasha and I went outside and asked the officer why he had
done such a thing. He told me "Back off lady, this doesn't concern
you." I said it did concern me, he'd just shot a bullet toward my
house, with my 4-month-old baby inside! He again said, "Back off
lady." He was very rude.

(Donna) The officer also kept his sunglasses on. Amber telephoned me
immediately, and I went over there to help her out.

Where did the bullet go, after missing Rupert?

(Donna) Oakland Police forensics did not find the bullet. Actually,
they barely looked for the bullet. They spent some time focusing on
where it hit the pavement; but when we asked them where the bullet
ended up, the forensics guy explained, "They go up, they come down,
you never know where they land."

(Amber) That evening Ken and I found the bullet in the living room. I
had to call the Oakland Police Department twice before anyone came
down to collect it as evidence. The second time I called they had no
record of my first call. The bullet had ricocheted off the cement by
Rupert, it hit the metal bar of the awning over our front door, and
then it blew through the living room wall, ending up under the futon
that my 4-month-old daughter was on at the time.

Why do you think the officer acted the way he did? Why did he shoot at
Rupert?


(Amber) I think he panicked. I understand that he felt alarmed, but he
had other options besides firing a gun at an occupied building. He
could have yelled "No!" or "Go home!" (which is what my Animal Control
Officer friends suggest). He was standing right between my neighbor's
van and my Subaru wagon. He could have easily jumped on top of either
vehicle. He could have run back to his own car. He could have maced
Rupert; he could have used his baton. He could have pulled his gun and
waited to see if Rupert was actually aggressive before firing. I can't
understand putting an entire apartment complex in danger. He nearly
killed a 4-month-old baby, because he was afraid of a friendly dog.

What is Officer James Smith's explanation for his behavior?

(Amber) From what I've heard, he's using the Sean Jones tragedy as the
excuse for his actions. Sean Jones was a small defenseless boy who was
attacked in the street by a drug dealer's defective dogs. Officer
Smith is a grown man, who has been trained to deal with all kinds of
dangerous and potentially dangerous situations, who was armed with
several weapons, who was standing right next to an easy means of
escape, who is sworn to protect, who holds himself out as a seasoned,
professional officer of the law, and who was dealing with a friendly
dog on private property.

Has a complaint been filed? Is there an investigation underway?

(Amber) Internal Affairs didn't return my calls for 13 days, but I
finally talked to someone on September 16. He told me that Officer
Smith's actions were appropriate because he feared for his safety. I
countered that he could have easily jumped up on my car, which he was
standing right next to. The Internal Affairs guy said that Oakland
Police Department "isn't trained to jump on cars".

(Donna) BAD RAP has talked to the Chief of Oakland Police, Chief Word,
who is taking "damage control" steps by telling us that he wants BAD
RAP to teach his officers how to conduct themselves around pit bulls.
We've already done trainings like this with the Berkeley Police. We
taught them the difference between normal pit bull behavior and an
iffy dog's behavior and how to interact with dogs they may encounter
on the street.

How dangerous are pit bulls, in your opinion?

(Donna) Pit bulls have an inbred bite inhibition in regards to human
beings, an off-switch. They're hard-wired to be soft with people. Pit
bulls are not known for human aggression -- just the opposite, in
fact.


(Amber) I'm pretty comfortable with most of the pit bulls I work with
in the shelters. There's the odd bad seed, but then I've met some
bad-seed Labradors that would take your face off if given the chance,
so I've learned not to make too many generalizations about any breed.
I judge each dog by its temperament, not by its breed. A dangerous dog
is a dangerous dog, no matter what breed it is, and dangerous dogs
come in all shapes, sizes and breeds.


Amber's family moved the next day -- September 4 -- to Colorado
because Ken acquired a job there. Now that Rupert's now longer a local
pet, who is going to replace him as BAD RAPS's top "demo dog"?


(Donna) We have two candidates -- there is Gunther, a 65-pound brown
pit, and Samson, a huge 70-pound black-and-white dog who is so calm, a
tornado could happen around him and he wouldn't be affected.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement from Sergeant Pete Sarna, Chief of Staff for the Oakland
Chief of Police: "Any time an officer discharges a gun, his supervisor
writes a report and this is forwarded up to the Chief of Police. An
inquiry is then conducted by our Firearms Discharge Review board and a
determination is made if the shooting is justified. We are going to do
a very thorough investigation into this September 3rd occurrence. The
review can take up to a month; decisions will be made at a future date
in a timely manner. A factor to consider in this case though is that
the dogs were in a location where they could have endangered children
or anybody. If the dogs had been properly restrained and controlled,
this would never have happened in the first place."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hank Pellissier -- a.k.a. Hank Hyena -- has been a columnist for
Salon.com ("Naked World"), SFGate ("Odd Barkings"), the S.F.
Metropolitan ("Frisco Utopia") and the New Mission News ("Civic
Stench"). He's also executive director of the Hyena Comedy Institute
and co-director of a preschool called The Children's Lab.


©2003 SF Gate


  #6  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:29 PM
c0u_ch_cam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your typical police officer is thousands of times more likely to kill an
innocent civilian than is your typical dog. Police are also thousands
of times more likely to kill YOUR dog than your average citizen.

keep your dog and your kids away from police, not pitbulls if you are
worried about safety.


michael
live...
http://dogtv.com

EmilyS wrote:
Oakland Cop Shoots At Celebrity Pit Bull
by Hank Pellissier, special to SF Gate
Monday, September 22, 2003
©2003 SF Gate

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...rbananimal.DTL

Rupert is a famously affectionate 70-pound pit bull who's been
profiled in several TV, radio, and newspaper articles as the
"demonstration dog" of BAD RAP (www.badrap.org), the Oakland nonprofit
that educates the public on the lovability of pit bulls. Despite his
celebrity, Rupert was nearly killed early this month when an alarmed
police officer shot at him without warning. The bullet missed, but it
ricocheted into a living room where it landed two feet away from an
infant girl. This article is a composite of interviews with Amber
Neiwold (Rupert's owner, and BAD RAP's Vice President) and Donna
Reynolds (BAD RAP's Executive Director). The Oakland Police Department
was also contacted: A statement from Sergeant Pete Sarna, Chief of
Staff for the Chief of Police, is at the conclusion of this column.

Amber, how long have you been Rupert's guardian?

(Amber) I found Rupert about five years ago by a dumpster, near my
home near the Fruitvale BART. He was abused, emaciated, abandoned and
just 6 to 8 months old. He had infected bite wounds, a dislocated
shoulder, a telephone cord wrapped around his neck, and abrasions all
over one side of him -- it looked like maybe he had been thrown out of
a car.

Did Rupert recover quickly?

Yes, he did. I was actually afraid of pit bulls before I met Rupert,
but then -- I fell in love with him. Now, of course, he is a bit pudgy
and exceedingly friendly.

Tell me about the pit bull scene in Oakland. What's going on?

(Donna) Many urban kids are breeding pit bulls -- its called "Stupid
Cash" because you can sell a pit bull puppy for $50 and there can be
up to 13 pit bulls in a litter. Oakland Economics. Kids sell the
entire litter when they're just 4 weeks old, except for one female
pup, then they dump the lactating mama on the street. The female pup
is bred during her first heat -- there's a huge population out there.
The Oakland shelter is full of mostly pit bulls. It's tragic.


Do the kids make money fighting the pit bulls?

(Donna) No. There's a lot of street-corner fighting in Oakland with
pit bulls, with some betting, but most of the fighting is just
machismo. Young urban guys saying, "My dog can beat your dog!"


Is $50 for a puppy the top price?

(Donna) If pit bull puppies have "blue" coats they can get up to $500
each. Blue is the fad color now; it's a diluted black that looks like
gray. A recessive gene. Breeders are forcing the two recessives
together to get the cash crop and this is creating lots of freak dogs
with health problems, nervousness, even human aggression.

Let's get back to Rupert. Describe his personality.

(Amber) He's very charismatic. He thinks all the world is a friend,
which amazes me, because sometimes the world can be real nasty to him.
He was made President of Bad Rap in the beginning, before we had a
human president.

When did BAD RAP start? What does it do?

(Donna) My husband Tim and I have been rescuing all breeds of dogs for
17 years and we got hooked into doing solely pit bulls about five
years ago. They're addictive; they're typically love sluts and
first-class clowns.

I co-founded BAD RAP about five years ago. Since then, we've rescued
and placed about 200 pit bulls, with the help of 50 fabulous
volunteers. We've placed dogs with all kinds of people -- artists,
policemen, lawyers, school teachers.

When did Rupert become a media celebrity for BAD RAP?

(Donna) BAD RAP made Rupert our main "demo dog" after Sean Jones was
mauled by a drug dealer's defective pit bulls in June 2001. That was
also right after the Diane Whipple tragedy (involving Presa Canarios,
NOT pit bulls). The city of Richmond was thinking about banning the
breed -- people were unnecessarily afraid and over-reacting. We had to
improve the perception that people had of pit bulls, so we started
doing breed education forums. We wanted the public to see normal,
well-loved and well-socialized pit bulls, so we picked Rupert as our
primary "demo dog" because he's big, beautiful, and exceptionally
affectionate. Rupert helped break the ice for lots of people. He'll do
obedience drills in front of the camera and generally ham it up.

Tell me about Rupert's public appearances.

(Donna) Rupert has been featured in the East Bay Express, Inside
Edition, the KFOG report, and other stories. One of his finest moments
was at a demo at the Antioch Police Community Hall. Channel 2 came to
interview us; their reporter, Amber Lee, was a bit leery of Rupert so
I gently pushed her into Rupert and he responded by slobbering her
faces with kisses. She started laughing and that footage became part
of that night's top story on Eyewitness News.

Let's talk about the recent incident. How was Rupert nearly shot?

(Amber) I lived with my husband Ken, and my daughter Sasha, in an
apartment building that's part of an artist's community at San Leandro
Boulevard and 41st Street in Oakland. Officer James Smith showed up
there at 8:20 a.m. on September 3 because he needed to get a statement
from a mugging victim -- Ron -- who had been robbed the night before.
Ron also lives in our apartment building. There's a large private
courtyard in front of the apartments and the entrance to my home is
about 60 feet from the sidewalk.

There were movers there, because we were moving to Colorado the next
day. The movers were going in and out the front door, bringing in
boxes and packing supplies. The front door was open, and Rupert, who
is trained to not leave the courtyard, was hanging out with the movers
as they came and went. My other dog, Spiro, a medium-sized mixed
breed, was with Rupert. My husband had just brought some boxes inside
and he was on his way back outside when we heard a shot in the
courtyard. There had been no barking, or warning yell from the
officer.

(Donna) We were told that when Rupert saw the officer, he started
walking towards him. But Rupert never barked; witnesses will verify
this.

(Amber) I heard later from Ron -- my neighbor, who walking behind the
officer and saw everything -- that the dogs stopped walking towards
the officer when he pulled his gun out. That's when the officer pulled
the trigger. The reason the bullet missed is because the officer was
"leading" the target and the target had stopped.


Has Rupert ever reacted aggressively towards policemen?

(Amber) Oh, no, he's never shown any aggression at all. The irony is
that Rupert has worked frequently with police and with Animal Care and
Control officers. He likes people in uniform. When he saw Officer
James Smith, he probably thought, "Oh, look! A friend!"

What happened after you heard the gunshot?

(Amber) I looked outside through the window and I saw a police officer
standing in the courtyard pointing a gun toward my front door. I ran
downstairs to find my husband standing in the doorway, his hands in
the air, with the officer's gun trained on him. The officer was
yelling "Get your dog! Get your dog!" over and over, but Rupert was
nowhere to be seen. At this point I panicked, ran outside and began
looking for Rupert, who I was sure must have been the target of the
shot because I know how prejudiced police are against pit bulls. I
thought Rupert must be dying or dead from a gunshot wound. But then,
my husband told me that Rupert was already inside. I went back in and
found Rupert hiding under the stairs, thankfully unhurt.

I became very distraught that a police officer had just tried to kill
my dog, and shot a bullet toward my apartment. I picked up my baby
daughter Sasha and I went outside and asked the officer why he had
done such a thing. He told me "Back off lady, this doesn't concern
you." I said it did concern me, he'd just shot a bullet toward my
house, with my 4-month-old baby inside! He again said, "Back off
lady." He was very rude.

(Donna) The officer also kept his sunglasses on. Amber telephoned me
immediately, and I went over there to help her out.

Where did the bullet go, after missing Rupert?

(Donna) Oakland Police forensics did not find the bullet. Actually,
they barely looked for the bullet. They spent some time focusing on
where it hit the pavement; but when we asked them where the bullet
ended up, the forensics guy explained, "They go up, they come down,
you never know where they land."

(Amber) That evening Ken and I found the bullet in the living room. I
had to call the Oakland Police Department twice before anyone came
down to collect it as evidence. The second time I called they had no
record of my first call. The bullet had ricocheted off the cement by
Rupert, it hit the metal bar of the awning over our front door, and
then it blew through the living room wall, ending up under the futon
that my 4-month-old daughter was on at the time.

Why do you think the officer acted the way he did? Why did he shoot at
Rupert?


(Amber) I think he panicked. I understand that he felt alarmed, but he
had other options besides firing a gun at an occupied building. He
could have yelled "No!" or "Go home!" (which is what my Animal Control
Officer friends suggest). He was standing right between my neighbor's
van and my Subaru wagon. He could have easily jumped on top of either
vehicle. He could have run back to his own car. He could have maced
Rupert; he could have used his baton. He could have pulled his gun and
waited to see if Rupert was actually aggressive before firing. I can't
understand putting an entire apartment complex in danger. He nearly
killed a 4-month-old baby, because he was afraid of a friendly dog.

What is Officer James Smith's explanation for his behavior?

(Amber) From what I've heard, he's using the Sean Jones tragedy as the
excuse for his actions. Sean Jones was a small defenseless boy who was
attacked in the street by a drug dealer's defective dogs. Officer
Smith is a grown man, who has been trained to deal with all kinds of
dangerous and potentially dangerous situations, who was armed with
several weapons, who was standing right next to an easy means of
escape, who is sworn to protect, who holds himself out as a seasoned,
professional officer of the law, and who was dealing with a friendly
dog on private property.

Has a complaint been filed? Is there an investigation underway?

(Amber) Internal Affairs didn't return my calls for 13 days, but I
finally talked to someone on September 16. He told me that Officer
Smith's actions were appropriate because he feared for his safety. I
countered that he could have easily jumped up on my car, which he was
standing right next to. The Internal Affairs guy said that Oakland
Police Department "isn't trained to jump on cars".

(Donna) BAD RAP has talked to the Chief of Oakland Police, Chief Word,
who is taking "damage control" steps by telling us that he wants BAD
RAP to teach his officers how to conduct themselves around pit bulls.
We've already done trainings like this with the Berkeley Police. We
taught them the difference between normal pit bull behavior and an
iffy dog's behavior and how to interact with dogs they may encounter
on the street.

How dangerous are pit bulls, in your opinion?

(Donna) Pit bulls have an inbred bite inhibition in regards to human
beings, an off-switch. They're hard-wired to be soft with people. Pit
bulls are not known for human aggression -- just the opposite, in
fact.


(Amber) I'm pretty comfortable with most of the pit bulls I work with
in the shelters. There's the odd bad seed, but then I've met some
bad-seed Labradors that would take your face off if given the chance,
so I've learned not to make too many generalizations about any breed.
I judge each dog by its temperament, not by its breed. A dangerous dog
is a dangerous dog, no matter what breed it is, and dangerous dogs
come in all shapes, sizes and breeds.


Amber's family moved the next day -- September 4 -- to Colorado
because Ken acquired a job there. Now that Rupert's now longer a local
pet, who is going to replace him as BAD RAPS's top "demo dog"?


(Donna) We have two candidates -- there is Gunther, a 65-pound brown
pit, and Samson, a huge 70-pound black-and-white dog who is so calm, a
tornado could happen around him and he wouldn't be affected.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement from Sergeant Pete Sarna, Chief of Staff for the Oakland
Chief of Police: "Any time an officer discharges a gun, his supervisor
writes a report and this is forwarded up to the Chief of Police. An
inquiry is then conducted by our Firearms Discharge Review board and a
determination is made if the shooting is justified. We are going to do
a very thorough investigation into this September 3rd occurrence. The
review can take up to a month; decisions will be made at a future date
in a timely manner. A factor to consider in this case though is that
the dogs were in a location where they could have endangered children
or anybody. If the dogs had been properly restrained and controlled,
this would never have happened in the first place."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hank Pellissier -- a.k.a. Hank Hyena -- has been a columnist for
Salon.com ("Naked World"), SFGate ("Odd Barkings"), the S.F.
Metropolitan ("Frisco Utopia") and the New Mission News ("Civic
Stench"). He's also executive director of the Hyena Comedy Institute
and co-director of a preschool called The Children's Lab.


©2003 SF Gate


  #7  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:29 PM
c0u_ch_cam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your typical police officer is thousands of times more likely to kill an
innocent civilian than is your typical dog. Police are also thousands
of times more likely to kill YOUR dog than your average citizen.

keep your dog and your kids away from police, not pitbulls if you are
worried about safety.


michael
live...
http://dogtv.com

EmilyS wrote:
Oakland Cop Shoots At Celebrity Pit Bull
by Hank Pellissier, special to SF Gate
Monday, September 22, 2003
©2003 SF Gate

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...rbananimal.DTL

Rupert is a famously affectionate 70-pound pit bull who's been
profiled in several TV, radio, and newspaper articles as the
"demonstration dog" of BAD RAP (www.badrap.org), the Oakland nonprofit
that educates the public on the lovability of pit bulls. Despite his
celebrity, Rupert was nearly killed early this month when an alarmed
police officer shot at him without warning. The bullet missed, but it
ricocheted into a living room where it landed two feet away from an
infant girl. This article is a composite of interviews with Amber
Neiwold (Rupert's owner, and BAD RAP's Vice President) and Donna
Reynolds (BAD RAP's Executive Director). The Oakland Police Department
was also contacted: A statement from Sergeant Pete Sarna, Chief of
Staff for the Chief of Police, is at the conclusion of this column.

Amber, how long have you been Rupert's guardian?

(Amber) I found Rupert about five years ago by a dumpster, near my
home near the Fruitvale BART. He was abused, emaciated, abandoned and
just 6 to 8 months old. He had infected bite wounds, a dislocated
shoulder, a telephone cord wrapped around his neck, and abrasions all
over one side of him -- it looked like maybe he had been thrown out of
a car.

Did Rupert recover quickly?

Yes, he did. I was actually afraid of pit bulls before I met Rupert,
but then -- I fell in love with him. Now, of course, he is a bit pudgy
and exceedingly friendly.

Tell me about the pit bull scene in Oakland. What's going on?

(Donna) Many urban kids are breeding pit bulls -- its called "Stupid
Cash" because you can sell a pit bull puppy for $50 and there can be
up to 13 pit bulls in a litter. Oakland Economics. Kids sell the
entire litter when they're just 4 weeks old, except for one female
pup, then they dump the lactating mama on the street. The female pup
is bred during her first heat -- there's a huge population out there.
The Oakland shelter is full of mostly pit bulls. It's tragic.


Do the kids make money fighting the pit bulls?

(Donna) No. There's a lot of street-corner fighting in Oakland with
pit bulls, with some betting, but most of the fighting is just
machismo. Young urban guys saying, "My dog can beat your dog!"


Is $50 for a puppy the top price?

(Donna) If pit bull puppies have "blue" coats they can get up to $500
each. Blue is the fad color now; it's a diluted black that looks like
gray. A recessive gene. Breeders are forcing the two recessives
together to get the cash crop and this is creating lots of freak dogs
with health problems, nervousness, even human aggression.

Let's get back to Rupert. Describe his personality.

(Amber) He's very charismatic. He thinks all the world is a friend,
which amazes me, because sometimes the world can be real nasty to him.
He was made President of Bad Rap in the beginning, before we had a
human president.

When did BAD RAP start? What does it do?

(Donna) My husband Tim and I have been rescuing all breeds of dogs for
17 years and we got hooked into doing solely pit bulls about five
years ago. They're addictive; they're typically love sluts and
first-class clowns.

I co-founded BAD RAP about five years ago. Since then, we've rescued
and placed about 200 pit bulls, with the help of 50 fabulous
volunteers. We've placed dogs with all kinds of people -- artists,
policemen, lawyers, school teachers.

When did Rupert become a media celebrity for BAD RAP?

(Donna) BAD RAP made Rupert our main "demo dog" after Sean Jones was
mauled by a drug dealer's defective pit bulls in June 2001. That was
also right after the Diane Whipple tragedy (involving Presa Canarios,
NOT pit bulls). The city of Richmond was thinking about banning the
breed -- people were unnecessarily afraid and over-reacting. We had to
improve the perception that people had of pit bulls, so we started
doing breed education forums. We wanted the public to see normal,
well-loved and well-socialized pit bulls, so we picked Rupert as our
primary "demo dog" because he's big, beautiful, and exceptionally
affectionate. Rupert helped break the ice for lots of people. He'll do
obedience drills in front of the camera and generally ham it up.

Tell me about Rupert's public appearances.

(Donna) Rupert has been featured in the East Bay Express, Inside
Edition, the KFOG report, and other stories. One of his finest moments
was at a demo at the Antioch Police Community Hall. Channel 2 came to
interview us; their reporter, Amber Lee, was a bit leery of Rupert so
I gently pushed her into Rupert and he responded by slobbering her
faces with kisses. She started laughing and that footage became part
of that night's top story on Eyewitness News.

Let's talk about the recent incident. How was Rupert nearly shot?

(Amber) I lived with my husband Ken, and my daughter Sasha, in an
apartment building that's part of an artist's community at San Leandro
Boulevard and 41st Street in Oakland. Officer James Smith showed up
there at 8:20 a.m. on September 3 because he needed to get a statement
from a mugging victim -- Ron -- who had been robbed the night before.
Ron also lives in our apartment building. There's a large private
courtyard in front of the apartments and the entrance to my home is
about 60 feet from the sidewalk.

There were movers there, because we were moving to Colorado the next
day. The movers were going in and out the front door, bringing in
boxes and packing supplies. The front door was open, and Rupert, who
is trained to not leave the courtyard, was hanging out with the movers
as they came and went. My other dog, Spiro, a medium-sized mixed
breed, was with Rupert. My husband had just brought some boxes inside
and he was on his way back outside when we heard a shot in the
courtyard. There had been no barking, or warning yell from the
officer.

(Donna) We were told that when Rupert saw the officer, he started
walking towards him. But Rupert never barked; witnesses will verify
this.

(Amber) I heard later from Ron -- my neighbor, who walking behind the
officer and saw everything -- that the dogs stopped walking towards
the officer when he pulled his gun out. That's when the officer pulled
the trigger. The reason the bullet missed is because the officer was
"leading" the target and the target had stopped.


Has Rupert ever reacted aggressively towards policemen?

(Amber) Oh, no, he's never shown any aggression at all. The irony is
that Rupert has worked frequently with police and with Animal Care and
Control officers. He likes people in uniform. When he saw Officer
James Smith, he probably thought, "Oh, look! A friend!"

What happened after you heard the gunshot?

(Amber) I looked outside through the window and I saw a police officer
standing in the courtyard pointing a gun toward my front door. I ran
downstairs to find my husband standing in the doorway, his hands in
the air, with the officer's gun trained on him. The officer was
yelling "Get your dog! Get your dog!" over and over, but Rupert was
nowhere to be seen. At this point I panicked, ran outside and began
looking for Rupert, who I was sure must have been the target of the
shot because I know how prejudiced police are against pit bulls. I
thought Rupert must be dying or dead from a gunshot wound. But then,
my husband told me that Rupert was already inside. I went back in and
found Rupert hiding under the stairs, thankfully unhurt.

I became very distraught that a police officer had just tried to kill
my dog, and shot a bullet toward my apartment. I picked up my baby
daughter Sasha and I went outside and asked the officer why he had
done such a thing. He told me "Back off lady, this doesn't concern
you." I said it did concern me, he'd just shot a bullet toward my
house, with my 4-month-old baby inside! He again said, "Back off
lady." He was very rude.

(Donna) The officer also kept his sunglasses on. Amber telephoned me
immediately, and I went over there to help her out.

Where did the bullet go, after missing Rupert?

(Donna) Oakland Police forensics did not find the bullet. Actually,
they barely looked for the bullet. They spent some time focusing on
where it hit the pavement; but when we asked them where the bullet
ended up, the forensics guy explained, "They go up, they come down,
you never know where they land."

(Amber) That evening Ken and I found the bullet in the living room. I
had to call the Oakland Police Department twice before anyone came
down to collect it as evidence. The second time I called they had no
record of my first call. The bullet had ricocheted off the cement by
Rupert, it hit the metal bar of the awning over our front door, and
then it blew through the living room wall, ending up under the futon
that my 4-month-old daughter was on at the time.

Why do you think the officer acted the way he did? Why did he shoot at
Rupert?


(Amber) I think he panicked. I understand that he felt alarmed, but he
had other options besides firing a gun at an occupied building. He
could have yelled "No!" or "Go home!" (which is what my Animal Control
Officer friends suggest). He was standing right between my neighbor's
van and my Subaru wagon. He could have easily jumped on top of either
vehicle. He could have run back to his own car. He could have maced
Rupert; he could have used his baton. He could have pulled his gun and
waited to see if Rupert was actually aggressive before firing. I can't
understand putting an entire apartment complex in danger. He nearly
killed a 4-month-old baby, because he was afraid of a friendly dog.

What is Officer James Smith's explanation for his behavior?

(Amber) From what I've heard, he's using the Sean Jones tragedy as the
excuse for his actions. Sean Jones was a small defenseless boy who was
attacked in the street by a drug dealer's defective dogs. Officer
Smith is a grown man, who has been trained to deal with all kinds of
dangerous and potentially dangerous situations, who was armed with
several weapons, who was standing right next to an easy means of
escape, who is sworn to protect, who holds himself out as a seasoned,
professional officer of the law, and who was dealing with a friendly
dog on private property.

Has a complaint been filed? Is there an investigation underway?

(Amber) Internal Affairs didn't return my calls for 13 days, but I
finally talked to someone on September 16. He told me that Officer
Smith's actions were appropriate because he feared for his safety. I
countered that he could have easily jumped up on my car, which he was
standing right next to. The Internal Affairs guy said that Oakland
Police Department "isn't trained to jump on cars".

(Donna) BAD RAP has talked to the Chief of Oakland Police, Chief Word,
who is taking "damage control" steps by telling us that he wants BAD
RAP to teach his officers how to conduct themselves around pit bulls.
We've already done trainings like this with the Berkeley Police. We
taught them the difference between normal pit bull behavior and an
iffy dog's behavior and how to interact with dogs they may encounter
on the street.

How dangerous are pit bulls, in your opinion?

(Donna) Pit bulls have an inbred bite inhibition in regards to human
beings, an off-switch. They're hard-wired to be soft with people. Pit
bulls are not known for human aggression -- just the opposite, in
fact.


(Amber) I'm pretty comfortable with most of the pit bulls I work with
in the shelters. There's the odd bad seed, but then I've met some
bad-seed Labradors that would take your face off if given the chance,
so I've learned not to make too many generalizations about any breed.
I judge each dog by its temperament, not by its breed. A dangerous dog
is a dangerous dog, no matter what breed it is, and dangerous dogs
come in all shapes, sizes and breeds.


Amber's family moved the next day -- September 4 -- to Colorado
because Ken acquired a job there. Now that Rupert's now longer a local
pet, who is going to replace him as BAD RAPS's top "demo dog"?


(Donna) We have two candidates -- there is Gunther, a 65-pound brown
pit, and Samson, a huge 70-pound black-and-white dog who is so calm, a
tornado could happen around him and he wouldn't be affected.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement from Sergeant Pete Sarna, Chief of Staff for the Oakland
Chief of Police: "Any time an officer discharges a gun, his supervisor
writes a report and this is forwarded up to the Chief of Police. An
inquiry is then conducted by our Firearms Discharge Review board and a
determination is made if the shooting is justified. We are going to do
a very thorough investigation into this September 3rd occurrence. The
review can take up to a month; decisions will be made at a future date
in a timely manner. A factor to consider in this case though is that
the dogs were in a location where they could have endangered children
or anybody. If the dogs had been properly restrained and controlled,
this would never have happened in the first place."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hank Pellissier -- a.k.a. Hank Hyena -- has been a columnist for
Salon.com ("Naked World"), SFGate ("Odd Barkings"), the S.F.
Metropolitan ("Frisco Utopia") and the New Mission News ("Civic
Stench"). He's also executive director of the Hyena Comedy Institute
and co-director of a preschool called The Children's Lab.


©2003 SF Gate


  #8  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:38 PM
Mary Healey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

EmilyS wrote:
snippageHe had infected bite wounds, a dislocated shoulder,


How can a dog have a dislocated shoulder?

--
Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo: Regis, Sam-I-Am, Noah (1992-2001),
Ranger, Duke,
felines, and finches

  #9  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:38 PM
Mary Healey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

EmilyS wrote:
snippageHe had infected bite wounds, a dislocated shoulder,


How can a dog have a dislocated shoulder?

--
Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo: Regis, Sam-I-Am, Noah (1992-2001),
Ranger, Duke,
felines, and finches

  #10  
Old September 22nd 03, 04:38 PM
Mary Healey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

EmilyS wrote:
snippageHe had infected bite wounds, a dislocated shoulder,


How can a dog have a dislocated shoulder?

--
Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo: Regis, Sam-I-Am, Noah (1992-2001),
Ranger, Duke,
felines, and finches

 




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