ACD behavior questions

In article , dogsnus wrote:
She exhibits some odd behaviors that are contradictory
in my experiences. She is at times, the definate
female in the house and all the boys tiptoe around
her when she reminds them she's top dog,but she
also has virutally none of the attitude when it
comes to letting the Lab consistently steal her
toys from her that she's just retrieved.
The same goes for her food.
That's oddity #1.

Can't speak to the nipping, but what you're describing above
is pretty normal for an aging bitch that's transitioning
from Absolute Monarch to Figurehead Ruler.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Of the $65 million given out for Bush's "faith-based" charities,
not one penny has gone directly to Jewish or Muslim groups

In article , dogsnus wrote:
She exhibits some odd behaviors that are contradictory
in my experiences. She is at times, the definate
female in the house and all the boys tiptoe around
her when she reminds them she's top dog,but she
also has virutally none of the attitude when it
comes to letting the Lab consistently steal her
toys from her that she's just retrieved.
The same goes for her food.
That's oddity #1.

Can't speak to the nipping, but what you're describing above
is pretty normal for an aging bitch that's transitioning
from Absolute Monarch to Figurehead Ruler.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Of the $65 million given out for Bush's "faith-based" charities,
not one penny has gone directly to Jewish or Muslim groups

dogsnus wrote:
comes to letting the Lab consistently steal her
toys from her that she's just retrieved.
The same goes for her food.
That's oddity #1.

Has she always done this, or is it new behavior? The reason I ask is
that Khan allows some other dogs to do the same thing. The only dog
I've known him to not do this is Pan. Some dogs are just not a threat,
I guess. If this is new for her, then there's probably some sort of
transition going on, like Melinda suggested.

Suja

dogsnus wrote:
comes to letting the Lab consistently steal her
toys from her that she's just retrieved.
The same goes for her food.
That's oddity #1.

Has she always done this, or is it new behavior? The reason I ask is
that Khan allows some other dogs to do the same thing. The only dog
I've known him to not do this is Pan. Some dogs are just not a threat,
I guess. If this is new for her, then there's probably some sort of
transition going on, like Melinda suggested.

Suja

dogsnus wrote:
comes to letting the Lab consistently steal her
toys from her that she's just retrieved.
The same goes for her food.
That's oddity #1.

Has she always done this, or is it new behavior? The reason I ask is
that Khan allows some other dogs to do the same thing. The only dog
I've known him to not do this is Pan. Some dogs are just not a threat,
I guess. If this is new for her, then there's probably some sort of
transition going on, like Melinda suggested.

Suja

dogsnus wrote:

She exhibits some odd behaviors that are contradictory
in my experiences. She is at times, the definate
female in the house and all the boys tiptoe around
her when she reminds them she's top dog,but she
also has virutally none of the attitude when it
comes to letting the Lab consistently steal her
toys from her that she's just retrieved.
The same goes for her food.
That's oddity #1.

Hi, Terri...

I usually just lurk these days, but as a long-time ACD owner, maybe I
can help.

ACDs are quite unusual dogs (as I'm sure you've noticed). They set their
own rules and live by them. Females, by most accounts, are supreme
rulers of the roost and will decide everything from who takes what
position in the pack order to who gets to play and when. My current ACD
female is truly the "fun police." She's very serious and rarely engages
in play with my other three dogs (a male ACD, a female pit bull and a
male Basset hound). She usually lets them play as much as they want, but
sometimes she just gets it in her head that "That's enough!" and she
goes in to "break it up." She usually does this by cutting out the pit
bull, who is frequently the object of a chase game, with the two boys in
hot pursuit.

Regarding your friend's dog, it seems that she favors the Lab, for
whatever reason, and that the toys and food simply aren't that important
to her. Believe me, if she really wanted them, she'd guard them
ferociously. ACDs will pick favorites in both their human pack and their
dog pack - my bet is that the Lab is her favorite.

Oddity #2 is,even though she's more than
willing to show submissive rolling over for
pets and bellyrubs to me,she *also* gets up
as I'm (or anyone else,for that matter)
passes her up in the house on their way to
another room,with a lunge forward and an intended
nip that stops short of contact. She's pretty
consistent in this behavior and has even done it
to my nephew's wife,so I can rule out the fact
that I,in particular,walk fast and that's what
she was responding to.
I understand the nipping/herding behavior of an ACD,
but I'm puzzled by the way in which she exhibits it.

It seems to me that she has appointed herself as the gatekeeper. It
would be helpful to know if there were other dogs or people in the room
when the "straying" person walked past her. If so, she may have decided
that things are "right" when the group is all together in one area. If
one member of the group tries to leave the rest, it's her job to try to
keep the pack together - at least in her own mind.

I thought it would be interesting to hear some speculation
from you folks as to what's possibly going on in her mind.

Cowdogs, more than any other breed I've owned, seem to take their own
view of what is right and wrong, normal and abnormal, and have a sense
of what ought to be. Then they enforce it, and they're difficult to
dissuade from this activity. That's why I don't think ACDs are suitable
for most owners. The truly successful cowdog owner understands this
about them and admires this quality - then works with it, rather than
trying to bring the dog into submission. They are a challenge!

To add a bit more information,I've been told she's always
been nippy with children

Doesn't surprise me - children are unruly, loud, fast, and often
unpredictable. They don't follow the "rules" according to the ACD, and
the cowdog cuts little slack with these "inferior" beings.

and in the past,has been an
outstanding working dog with cattle.

Doesn't surprise me, either, for reasons stated above.

That's about all I know about her.
That,and the fact that there's something about her ,
special,that I really,really like more than any other
ACD I've ever been around.

A lot of ACDs these days are being bred with softer temperaments. When
you find one with that kind of attitude, you're finding the true nature
of what I believe is the ideal in the breed, and that is being lost in
many cases as breeders attempt to make them more suitable for pet homes
or showing. This girl sounds to me like a real working-type dog. It
takes a special kind of person to admire that... LOL

But,her behavior does puzzle me.
Speculations? Ideas?

The first thing to do is to try to figure out what her view of a
"correct" environment is. If she's calm and happy, this is her idea of
how things should be. If she's bossy and nippy, things are "out of
order" and her job is to set them "right." I think they consider
themselves as lords of their universe and have no problem accepting
responsibility for maintaining order in it. They're really fascinating
dogs, and once you figure out what they consider right and wrong, their
behavior is quite predictable. Figuring out *why* they consider
something right or wrong is a much tougher task. I think often the
answer is just "because."

Does this help?

Tracy

dogsnus wrote:

She exhibits some odd behaviors that are contradictory
in my experiences. She is at times, the definate
female in the house and all the boys tiptoe around
her when she reminds them she's top dog,but she
also has virutally none of the attitude when it
comes to letting the Lab consistently steal her
toys from her that she's just retrieved.
The same goes for her food.
That's oddity #1.

Hi, Terri...

I usually just lurk these days, but as a long-time ACD owner, maybe I
can help.

ACDs are quite unusual dogs (as I'm sure you've noticed). They set their
own rules and live by them. Females, by most accounts, are supreme
rulers of the roost and will decide everything from who takes what
position in the pack order to who gets to play and when. My current ACD
female is truly the "fun police." She's very serious and rarely engages
in play with my other three dogs (a male ACD, a female pit bull and a
male Basset hound). She usually lets them play as much as they want, but
sometimes she just gets it in her head that "That's enough!" and she
goes in to "break it up." She usually does this by cutting out the pit
bull, who is frequently the object of a chase game, with the two boys in
hot pursuit.

Regarding your friend's dog, it seems that she favors the Lab, for
whatever reason, and that the toys and food simply aren't that important
to her. Believe me, if she really wanted them, she'd guard them
ferociously. ACDs will pick favorites in both their human pack and their
dog pack - my bet is that the Lab is her favorite.

Oddity #2 is,even though she's more than
willing to show submissive rolling over for
pets and bellyrubs to me,she *also* gets up
as I'm (or anyone else,for that matter)
passes her up in the house on their way to
another room,with a lunge forward and an intended
nip that stops short of contact. She's pretty
consistent in this behavior and has even done it
to my nephew's wife,so I can rule out the fact
that I,in particular,walk fast and that's what
she was responding to.
I understand the nipping/herding behavior of an ACD,
but I'm puzzled by the way in which she exhibits it.

It seems to me that she has appointed herself as the gatekeeper. It
would be helpful to know if there were other dogs or people in the room
when the "straying" person walked past her. If so, she may have decided
that things are "right" when the group is all together in one area. If
one member of the group tries to leave the rest, it's her job to try to
keep the pack together - at least in her own mind.

I thought it would be interesting to hear some speculation
from you folks as to what's possibly going on in her mind.

Cowdogs, more than any other breed I've owned, seem to take their own
view of what is right and wrong, normal and abnormal, and have a sense
of what ought to be. Then they enforce it, and they're difficult to
dissuade from this activity. That's why I don't think ACDs are suitable
for most owners. The truly successful cowdog owner understands this
about them and admires this quality - then works with it, rather than
trying to bring the dog into submission. They are a challenge!

To add a bit more information,I've been told she's always
been nippy with children

Doesn't surprise me - children are unruly, loud, fast, and often
unpredictable. They don't follow the "rules" according to the ACD, and
the cowdog cuts little slack with these "inferior" beings.

and in the past,has been an
outstanding working dog with cattle.

Doesn't surprise me, either, for reasons stated above.

That's about all I know about her.
That,and the fact that there's something about her ,
special,that I really,really like more than any other
ACD I've ever been around.

A lot of ACDs these days are being bred with softer temperaments. When
you find one with that kind of attitude, you're finding the true nature
of what I believe is the ideal in the breed, and that is being lost in
many cases as breeders attempt to make them more suitable for pet homes
or showing. This girl sounds to me like a real working-type dog. It
takes a special kind of person to admire that... LOL

But,her behavior does puzzle me.
Speculations? Ideas?

The first thing to do is to try to figure out what her view of a
"correct" environment is. If she's calm and happy, this is her idea of
how things should be. If she's bossy and nippy, things are "out of
order" and her job is to set them "right." I think they consider
themselves as lords of their universe and have no problem accepting
responsibility for maintaining order in it. They're really fascinating
dogs, and once you figure out what they consider right and wrong, their
behavior is quite predictable. Figuring out *why* they consider
something right or wrong is a much tougher task. I think often the
answer is just "because."

Does this help?

Tracy

dogsnus wrote:

She exhibits some odd behaviors that are contradictory
in my experiences. She is at times, the definate
female in the house and all the boys tiptoe around
her when she reminds them she's top dog,but she
also has virutally none of the attitude when it
comes to letting the Lab consistently steal her
toys from her that she's just retrieved.
The same goes for her food.
That's oddity #1.

Hi, Terri...

I usually just lurk these days, but as a long-time ACD owner, maybe I
can help.

ACDs are quite unusual dogs (as I'm sure you've noticed). They set their
own rules and live by them. Females, by most accounts, are supreme
rulers of the roost and will decide everything from who takes what
position in the pack order to who gets to play and when. My current ACD
female is truly the "fun police." She's very serious and rarely engages
in play with my other three dogs (a male ACD, a female pit bull and a
male Basset hound). She usually lets them play as much as they want, but
sometimes she just gets it in her head that "That's enough!" and she
goes in to "break it up." She usually does this by cutting out the pit
bull, who is frequently the object of a chase game, with the two boys in
hot pursuit.

Regarding your friend's dog, it seems that she favors the Lab, for
whatever reason, and that the toys and food simply aren't that important
to her. Believe me, if she really wanted them, she'd guard them
ferociously. ACDs will pick favorites in both their human pack and their
dog pack - my bet is that the Lab is her favorite.

Oddity #2 is,even though she's more than
willing to show submissive rolling over for
pets and bellyrubs to me,she *also* gets up
as I'm (or anyone else,for that matter)
passes her up in the house on their way to
another room,with a lunge forward and an intended
nip that stops short of contact. She's pretty
consistent in this behavior and has even done it
to my nephew's wife,so I can rule out the fact
that I,in particular,walk fast and that's what
she was responding to.
I understand the nipping/herding behavior of an ACD,
but I'm puzzled by the way in which she exhibits it.

It seems to me that she has appointed herself as the gatekeeper. It
would be helpful to know if there were other dogs or people in the room
when the "straying" person walked past her. If so, she may have decided
that things are "right" when the group is all together in one area. If
one member of the group tries to leave the rest, it's her job to try to
keep the pack together - at least in her own mind.

I thought it would be interesting to hear some speculation
from you folks as to what's possibly going on in her mind.

Cowdogs, more than any other breed I've owned, seem to take their own
view of what is right and wrong, normal and abnormal, and have a sense
of what ought to be. Then they enforce it, and they're difficult to
dissuade from this activity. That's why I don't think ACDs are suitable
for most owners. The truly successful cowdog owner understands this
about them and admires this quality - then works with it, rather than
trying to bring the dog into submission. They are a challenge!

To add a bit more information,I've been told she's always
been nippy with children

Doesn't surprise me - children are unruly, loud, fast, and often
unpredictable. They don't follow the "rules" according to the ACD, and
the cowdog cuts little slack with these "inferior" beings.

and in the past,has been an
outstanding working dog with cattle.

Doesn't surprise me, either, for reasons stated above.

That's about all I know about her.
That,and the fact that there's something about her ,
special,that I really,really like more than any other
ACD I've ever been around.

A lot of ACDs these days are being bred with softer temperaments. When
you find one with that kind of attitude, you're finding the true nature
of what I believe is the ideal in the breed, and that is being lost in
many cases as breeders attempt to make them more suitable for pet homes
or showing. This girl sounds to me like a real working-type dog. It
takes a special kind of person to admire that... LOL

But,her behavior does puzzle me.
Speculations? Ideas?

The first thing to do is to try to figure out what her view of a
"correct" environment is. If she's calm and happy, this is her idea of
how things should be. If she's bossy and nippy, things are "out of
order" and her job is to set them "right." I think they consider
themselves as lords of their universe and have no problem accepting
responsibility for maintaining order in it. They're really fascinating
dogs, and once you figure out what they consider right and wrong, their
behavior is quite predictable. Figuring out *why* they consider
something right or wrong is a much tougher task. I think often the
answer is just "because."

Does this help?

Tracy

dogsnus wrote:

Oh yeah,lest I forget and you call me a big meany pants and yell
at me again,

MOI? Yell? How very un-ladylike. You wouldn't be accusing me of being
un-ladylike, would you?

I'm officially notifying you right now that at 7:30am
mountain time,my grand-daughter's host will be given a shot
to induce labor to bring forth the fruit of her looms.

Grand daughter likes her current home just fine, huh? Maybe she's been
watching too much CNN.

Hope everything goes smoothly with the delivery. When do you suppose
you'll be posting pictures?

Suja

dogsnus wrote:

Oh yeah,lest I forget and you call me a big meany pants and yell
at me again,

MOI? Yell? How very un-ladylike. You wouldn't be accusing me of being
un-ladylike, would you?

I'm officially notifying you right now that at 7:30am
mountain time,my grand-daughter's host will be given a shot
to induce labor to bring forth the fruit of her looms.

Grand daughter likes her current home just fine, huh? Maybe she's been
watching too much CNN.

Hope everything goes smoothly with the delivery. When do you suppose
you'll be posting pictures?

Suja