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? about ivermectin
Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of
heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel. I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood. I can buy ivermectin much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that weigh just under 100 lbs. http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice |
#2
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? about ivermectin
I do and I know of a breeder that does. I get mine from a
holistic/wellness vet. Janice wrote: Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel. I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood. I can buy ivermectin much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that weigh just under 100 lbs. http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#3
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? about ivermectin
On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:08:44 -0500, (Janice) wrote:
Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel. I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood. I can buy ivermectin In what form/strength? To be used as HW preventative? HW "Cure"?? much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that weigh just under 100 lbs. Suggest you read up on both ivermectin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin and Heartworm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartworm Puddin' "Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim." - Bertrand Russell |
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? about ivermectin Puddin Man)
I want to use ivermectin as a preventative. It is 1.87%, same as heartgaurd. The paste for horses can be measured in 50 lb. increments. Thanks for the info. Janice Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel. I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood. I can buy ivermectin In what form/strength? To be used as HW preventative? HW "Cure"?? much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that weigh just under 100 lbs. Suggest you read up on both ivermectin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin and Heartworm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartworm http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice |
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? about ivermectin (Scott)
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? about ivermectin Puddin Man)
On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:44:36 -0500, (Janice) wrote:
I want to use ivermectin as a preventative. For dog(s). It is 1.87%, same as heartgaurd. The paste for horses can be measured in 50 lb. increments. I've not seen any Heartgard that is 1.87% ivermectin. For dog HW preventative, A solution of 1.87% ivermectin can be very difficult to properly measure (a dosage). From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin Some dog breeds, most notably the collie, exhibit signs of ivermectin related central nervous system toxicity at ivermectin doses exceeding 150 to 200 µg/kg. Thanks for the info. Janice Good Luck, Puddin' Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel. I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood. I can buy ivermectin In what form/strength? To be used as HW preventative? HW "Cure"?? much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that weigh just under 100 lbs. Suggest you read up on both ivermectin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin and Heartworm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartworm http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice "Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim." - Bertrand Russell |
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? about ivermectin Puddin Man)
"Janice" wrote in message ... I want to use ivermectin as a preventative. It is 1.87%, same as heartgaurd. The paste for horses can be measured in 50 lb. increments. ...........I think it's cattle Ivomec (1% Ivermectin) that should be used. There is someone who uses Ivomec who had a long post about how to calculate dosages. http://tinyurl.com/yq3npq .......Don't use Ivomec Plus for cattle. You can look at all Merial products here. Horse Ivermectin is called EQVALAN: http://merialusa.naccvp.com/prodlist...country&p=msds There's also many other postings on this issue if you search Google archives for this group using ivermectin cattle. The above post, though, is the most thorough. And the correct dose for dogs is 6 micrograms per kilo body weight of dog as this poster states. You can check this at the CVM/FDA site or read a box of Heartgard. The dose of ivermectin per kg BW is much higher for horses so you cannot go by the suggestes doses on the paste tube. I don't think you can calculate the dose very well with a paste. They do make a drench for horses, but you'd have to check all the ingredients to make sure they're safe for dogs. Horses and dogs are not at all the same. They don't mention what else is in the paste either. http://merialusa.naccvp.com/view.php?prodnum=1111012 This syringe contains sufficient paste to treat one 1250 lb horse at the recommended dose rate of 91 mcg ivermectin per lb (200 mcg/kg) body weight. Even better might be IVOMEC (ivermectin) Injection for Grower and Feeder Pigs which is .27% Ivermectin. This looks to be the same as cattle Ivomec only less concentrated. The lower the percentage of ivermectin the better as it gives you more control over dosages, since you'll be giving a very tiny amount. If I ever were to do this, I'd sit down and figure it all out for myself if my vet wouldn't help me. buglady take out the dog before replying |
#8
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? about ivermectin Puddin Man)
I use Ivermectin, the cow kind, and a small tuberuclin syringe (sans
needel of course), which pokes right thru the rubber seal, draw up a fraction of a cc just like I was drawing up an injection, and then squirt directly in the dog's mouth. Fast and easy. SF |
#9
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? about ivermectin
"Janice" wrote in message
... Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel. I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood. I can buy ivermectin much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that weigh just under 100 lbs. http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice (Those who are interested in this subject but have read this old post before might want to skip to the new info, generally bordered by rows of ********************) This addresses the issue of correct monthly dosage of Ivomec (1% ivermectin) solution for PREVENTION of heartworms in dogs. It is not about the much higher dosages of ivermectin required to treat canine intestinal worms or external parasites. First, some abbreviations used in this post, posts by others, and on websites containing heartworm and ivermectin information: one gram = one thousand milligrams = 1,000 mg one gram = one million micrograms = 1,000,000 mcg = 1,000,000 ug one thousand grams = one kilogram = 1 kg = 2.20462 pounds one liter = one thousand milliters = 1000 mL one milliter = 1 mL = almost exactly 1 cc (cubic centimeter) From several websites, including ones that have Freedom Of Information copies of the original ivermectin clinical trials, the recommended dosage rate of ivermectin for PREVENTION of heartworms in dogs is 6mcg/kg. That's SIX micrograms of ivermectin per kilogram of dog. The datasheet that came with the bottle of 1% (one percent) sterile solution of Ivomec bought from a local feed store indicates that if given to CATTLE at a rate of 1mL/110lb (one milliliter of solution per one hundred ten pounds of animal), that the CATTLE would receive a dosage rate of 200mcg/kg. That's TWO HUNDRED micrograms of ivermectin per kilogram of cow, bull, calf, etc., or 33.333 times the dosage rate appropriate for dogs. Therefore, to calculate the amount of 1% (one percent) solution to give to my dogs I had to reduce the 1mL/110lb of cattle down to 0.030mL/110lb (three hundredths of one milliliter of Ivomec [1% ivermectin] solution per one hundred ten pounds) of dog. So "Lady", who weighs about 55 (fifty-five) pounds, needs 0.015mL (one and one-half hundredths of a milliliter) of 1% Ivomec solution each month. The same answer to the dosage question can be achieved another way. The Ivomec (1% ivermectin solution) label states in two places that each mL of Ivomec contains 10 mg of ivermectin. 10 mg (milligrams) equals 10,000 mcg or ug (micrograms). The correct dosage is only SIX mcg per kg (kilogram) of dog. That's six mcg per 2.20462 pounds of dog. So the 55 pound "Lady" mentioned above would need (6/10,000) X (55/2.20462) mL or 0.015 mL of the 1% variety of Ivomec each month. The pharmacy in the local Wal-Mart Supercenter sells tiny disposable applicators (like syringes without needles, some pharmacists refer to them as oral syringes) that hold only one milliliter of solution, with a graduation for each hundredth of a milliliter (Update: the last batch I bought of this same brand of applicator has half as many graduations, one for each fiftieth of a milliliter). Removing one of these plastic applicators and the 1% Ivomec solution from my refrigerator (where I keep both stored), I found during the first test that 23 actual free-fall drops (as opposed to the unreliable "dps" graduation scale included on some of the aforementioned applicators) equaled 0.61mL of solution, and during the second test that 33 free-fall drops equaled 0.91mL of solution. Using the total of 56 free-fall drops being equal to 1.52mL, each one of those drops of 1% Ivomec calculated to be 0.0271428mL . Comparing this amount to the desired dosage of 0.0300000mL of 1% Ivomec solution per 110 pounds of dog (see paragraph above beginning with the word "Therefore"), each one of those particular drops would be the correct amount to give to a dog weighing 99.5 pounds. Keep in mind that free-fall drops can be different sizes. Volume contained in each drop of 1% Ivomec is affected by temperature of the solution, temperature of the applicator, applicator material (plastic versus glass), how clean or dirty the applicator is, and the size and shape of that portion of the applicator which is close to the opening. For that reason it is a good idea to do your own tests to determine the drops per mL relationship, and to IGNORE any graduated scale (on some applicators) which claims to represent "drops" instead of hundredths or fiftieths of a mL. ********************************************** Also, unless you squirt the drug on the back of your dog's tongue, you don't know how much of the ivermectin will be absorbed and how much might be excreted with undigested dog treat or food. And if you decide to put the drug on your dog's everyday food instead of a treat, you have to make sure that the dog consumes all of the drug during one meal. ********************************************** It is easier for me to apply a single drop of 1% Ivomec solution to an absorbent dog treat than to the back of a dog's tongue. This also keeps the applicator clean enough to store in a baggie in the refrigerator, instead of throwing it away. I refrigerate the 50mL bottle of Ivomec also. I put the drug on breaded chicken patties after they have cooled to room temperature, to avoid any possible drug breakdown due to heat. Note that a single drop of 1% Ivomec solution is almost a 2 to 1 overdose for "Lady", and more than a 2 to 1 overdose for my several 45-pound dogs. In clinical tests even Collies had to have an overdose of at least 15 to 1 before they showed any ill effects. It would be reasonable to assume that there are some dogs who are even more sensitive to ivermectin than any of the relative few who were in the clinical trials..... ********************************************** but also reasonable to assume that a 4 to 1 overdose is not dangerous, and that UNDERdosing is. For the past two years or so I have been giving my dogs TWO of these drops, with no ill effects that I can see. I don't like overdosing, but its the possibility of underdosing that really worries me. ********************************************** A Heartgard Chewable for dogs 51 to 100 pounds delivers 272 mcg of ivermectin according to the label. One kilogram equals 2.20462 pounds. Considering the recommended dosage rate of 6 mcg per kilogram of dog, this means the Chewable is formulated for 100 pound dogs, with 51 to 99 pound dogs receiving a harmless overdose. I keep this in mind when dealing with the difficulty of precise measurement of small amounts of ivermectin solution. Joe |
#10
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? about ivermectin
Drops that fall from the tip of a syringe needle will be MUCH
smaller that those that fall from the tip of the applicator I describe in my other current post. Using a refrigerated 1 mL insulin syringe with 28 (twenty-eight) gauge needle, and refrig- erated 1% Ivermectin, I found that 221 (two hundred twenty-one) free-fall drops equaled 0.615 mL. So each of those drops was only about 0.002782805 mL, which is the appropriate amount of 1% ivermectin to give to a dog weighing 10.2 pounds. HOWEVER, if I decide to start using this syringe with 28 gauge needle instead of the non-needle applicator I refer to in my other current post, I I will pretend that each of these tiny drops is only enough 1% ivermectin to treat 4 (four) pounds of dog, and will also round the calculated dosage up to the next whole drop. The reason being that once we get past using the extreme overdoses sometimes mentioned online (the most common is one mL of 1% ivermectin per one hundred pounds of dog), I believe the greatest remaining danger is UNDERdosing our dogs. Other posters may disagree. I made measurements using the syringe with 28 gauge needle today, 2007/02/10, after determining that such insulin syringes can be ordered online without a prescription. I did this because my pharmacist will no longer sell me the oral applicators I referred to in my other post. He's worried about illegal drugs and hungry lawyers, even though no needle is involved. Joe |
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