starting jumps in agility

Jo Wolf wrote:

You got the words a bit scrambled there... People who want a dog to
consistently jump higher and higher, above common sense levels (top of
shoulder) are on an ego trip or need the dog to do it for income
($)..... The safety of the dog is why the various sports have set
specific height limits of jumps in relationship to the height of the
dog.... and in some cases, in relationship to the height and structure
of the dog... for large heavily built dogs like the molosser family.


I'm not following this thread, but huh??? Who makes *money* jumping dogs????

And frankly, though my dogs do jump right at shoulder height, there's NO
reason why a fit, athletic dog can't very easily jump higher than its
shoulder on a regular basis, and many do. Elicia Calhoun's Suni, who is
actually a dog which would jump 16" in AKC, jumped 24" for many years,
and 26" in international competition I believe. She has had a very long,
successful career, and has now been moved back down to 16", but I think
she's also 10 or 11 now. The fact that she's been able to easily do
those heights for years does not indicate she's jumping beyond "common
sense levels." And I'm sure Elicia doesn't jump her for money!

From: (Jo=A0Wolf)

In training for agility, the good trainer does not constantly jump the
dog full height in training

Man, that statement just rubs me the wrong way. There's many schools of
thought regarding jump training, and I don't believe that any have been
_proven correct.

How many dogs have you trained/competed with in agility, and to what
level?

Debbie

In training for agility, the good trainer does not constantly jump the
dog full height in training... just when putting on the polish before a
season begins or before a trial...

Sorry, Jo, but this is not only far from accurate, it's bad advice.
While it's true that puppies learning to jump shouldn't do full height
until their growth plates have closed, consistently jumping/training at
heights lower than competition height can cause MAJOR problems.
Dogs who are consistently jumped at speed over jumps lower than compeition
height can develop the habit of flattening over jumps, which will lead to
CRASHING them in compeition.

Did I say "CONSTANTLY jumped at below competition height"? Nope.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

Did I say "CONSTANTLY jumped at below competition height"? Nope.

No, and neither did I.
However, you quite clearly stated that "good trainers" ONLY jump dogs at
competition height once in a while - which means they would *consistently*
(the word I actually used) be jumping the dog lower in practice.
Sorry, but once again, your statement is not only inaccurate - I don't
know anybody who follows such a practice - but giving what IMO is bad
advice. Not to mention that your original post pretty much implies that
anyone who regularly jumps dogs at full height in practice is a BAD trainer.

And like Debbie, I'm finding myself wondering how many dogs you've
actually trained and competed with, and how many agility competitors and
trainers you talk to on a regular basis.

Sionnach said in rec.pets.dogs.activities:

Dogs who are consistently jumped at speed over jumps lower
than compeition height can develop the habit of flattening
over jumps, which will lead to CRASHING them in compeition.

Not only that, but Fast Dog Friday handles much differently at
heights lower than his regular jump height of 22". Since we
compete at 22", and the goal of our training is for competion,
we train at 22".

Natch, he didn't jump 22" on a regular basis until he was all
grown up.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Rocky wrote:

Sionnach said in rec.pets.dogs.activities:


Dogs who are consistently jumped at speed over jumps lower
than compeition height can develop the habit of flattening
over jumps, which will lead to CRASHING them in compeition.


Not only that, but Fast Dog Friday handles much differently at
heights lower than his regular jump height of 22". Since we
compete at 22", and the goal of our training is for competion,
we train at 22".

Natch, he didn't jump 22" on a regular basis until he was all
grown up.


Yep. The dog's speed is different and they handle differently. And yes,
4" can make a big difference.

I sometimes vary jump heights on my dogs, but if I do, I do it in both
directions--both higher and lower than regulation. Mostly I stick to
regulation height unless the dog is recovering from injury. With Viva,
now entering her 5th year of competition, I can get away with jumping
lower in practice more often, but I do jump her 24 most of the time.
Cala, just starting out, is always, always jumped 24". One reason why I
rarely took advantage of NADAC's 20" jump height option for a 20+ dog
was because it was the only venue where my dogs didn't jump 24, and I
need them to retain the muscle memory of that height, not 20".

Here in the U.S., jump heights are typically fairly close to the dog's
shoulder height. There's absolutely no reason why a fit dog of normal
structure shouldn't be able to jump those heights pretty much
indefinitely as long as they are jumped on a good surface.

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.activities:

I sometimes vary jump heights on my dogs, but if I do, I do
it in both directions--both higher and lower than
regulation.

Every 2 weeks we do jump chute work: lower heights, slanted
bars, normal heights, close, far, etc. But for regular stuff,
we stick to 22".

Here in the U.S., jump heights are typically fairly close
to the dog's shoulder height.

USDAA? Except for one of the lower heights, AAC's height
criteria are the same (I think). I have somewhat of a problem
with the height class that Friday came close to being in: he's
21.0 inches and would be jumping 26" if he was a hair taller.

There's absolutely no reason
why a fit dog of normal structure shouldn't be able to jump
those heights pretty much indefinitely as long as they are
jumped on a good surface.

Yup. The "good surface" point is often not considered.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Rocky wrote:

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.activities:



Here in the U.S., jump heights are typically fairly close
to the dog's shoulder height.


USDAA? Except for one of the lower heights, AAC's height
criteria are the same (I think). I have somewhat of a problem
with the height class that Friday came close to being in: he's
21.0 inches and would be jumping 26" if he was a hair taller.

And that's one reason why I don't do USDAA. I don't care for the jump
height cutoffs in the Championship division and I don't like the aframe
height or the sharp, tall slats on equipment.


There's absolutely no reason
why a fit dog of normal structure shouldn't be able to jump
those heights pretty much indefinitely as long as they are
jumped on a good surface.


Yup. The "good surface" point is often not considered.

And it's critical. I just won't jump my dogs on carpet. Period. Nor will
I jump them on thin mats over concrete. I do jump them at our indoor
training facility, which has 3/4" recycled rubber matting that the dogs
adore and which has been approved by Chris Zink. I trial on dirt or grass.

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.activities:

And that's one reason why I don't do USDAA. I don't care
for the jump height cutoffs in the Championship division
and I don't like the aframe height or the sharp, tall slats
on equipment.

I've made some USDAA equipment, and I agree with you on the
slats. I have no problem with the slats on AAC equipment,
though, which otherwise uses very similar specs to USDAA.

The A-frame height in AAC is currently a contentious issue.
Mini dogs (jumping 16" and lower) were recently lowered to a
5'6" A-Frame. Now we have 3 heights: 6'3" (regular), 5'0"
(specials/vet), and now 5'6" for minis. Talk about a ****-show
for the ring crew at height changes and the subsequent reruns.
Personally, I think the A-frame should be 5'6" for every class,
but there's a very vocal minority who want to maintain the high
frame because that's what's required in the Worlds.

BTW, neither of my agility dogs have had a problem with the
height of the A-Frame - I just have an issue with so many
changes during the running of a class. Some rules make me think
that the rules committee have never organised a trial, ring
crewed, or built a course.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.