Followup on pack behavior case

"Lynn K." wrote in message
om...
A month or so ago I posted a case of a client's adolescent GSD with
strong pack identity who was protest barking whenever someone
physically left a group.

Lynn, do you know if they ever had problems when they both left the dog?
Still splitting up the pack, but maybe that has more to do with abandonment
than with keeping a pack together.

Cate

"Lynn K." wrote in message
om...
A month or so ago I posted a case of a client's adolescent GSD with
strong pack identity who was protest barking whenever someone
physically left a group. The plan was to work & reward the dog at
the
point of departure and associated a cue phrase.

We did that and it was successful, but I don't think it was what
really stopped the problem. In the past 3 weeks, the woman has
become
a much better handler and the difference is night and day. The dog
is
really responding to her and that change in their relationship is
what
I believe has changed the dog's emphasis on the pack and need to
keep
pack together. In the past the dog would bark and carry on when
either one of the couple would leave the house, as if to say, "Hey,
get back here with us". Now, when the husband leaves in the
morning,
the dog moves to heel position beside the wife, alert and ready to
work, saying "It's just us, what are we going to do now?". WHen
it's
the wife that leaves, the dog will go lie down because he doesn't
have
the same expectation of the husband. IOW, the problem behavior
disappeared when the dog and wife bonded. He's also gone from a
screaming, reactive, attention demanding puppy to happy attention
heeling off leash in the same month's time. It's all part of the
same
thing and very gratifying to watch.

Lynn K.

Hi Lynn ,
I bet the owners must be happy too.
I'm finding the wolf/dog and pack thing confusing . I do several
forums and you either get groups that are believe in rank and
leadership and dominance reduction or they says it nonsense and
Amichien bonding (as Jan Fennell calls it ), is cruel.
Alison

"Cate" wrote in message news:
Lynn, do you know if they ever had problems when they both left the dog?
Still splitting up the pack, but maybe that has more to do with abandonment
than with keeping a pack together.

No SA, no problem at all with leaving the dog alone with complete
access to house & yard for extended periods. That's one of the things
that made this dog so interesting to me. He simply wanted to have
everyone he'd identified as within his group (and that changes with
situation) in close physical proximity.

Lynn K.

"Chris Williams" wrote in message
...
Have you formed an opinion of Fennell, Allison? Just sent for her
book after someone said I am forced to practice her principles, i.e.,
I
often don't have time to lavish affection on the shelter dogs because
I'm busy cleaning their kennels and moving them from place to place.
They behave perfectly, and the observer said it's because I don't
focus
on them.

Hi Chris ,
I have recommended people read her before but now I'm not so sure. I
like some of the things she says like ignore bad behaviour and reward
good behaviour and ignore dogs when they jump up or demand
attention. If a dog does something like chase its tail she doesn't say
anything but just gets hold of its collar sits down in a chair and
releases it after a minute and repeats this until it stops . It gives
the dog time out to think with out saying no stop it or leave which
just makes dogs worse . It helped with my dog Judy when she got old
and started pulling everything off chairs to make nests .
She insists that you do the amichien bonding like ignoring the dogs
when you come in for 5 minutes and gesture eating and she believes
that the pack has a strict order and you mustn't let them go through
doors first which is hard work . She insists that you have rules and
stick to them which is good for dogs .

I have just finished reading Understanding the Rescue Dog by Carol
Price. its a great book and its helped me with newly adopted Diddy.
She gives a great insight into how rescue dogs feel and think ,and why
they act like they do , common mistakes new owners can make , how to
solve any problems , health , training and general rehabilitation ,
its comprehensive and if you can get hold of it I think it would be of
more benefit than Jan Fennels book . Its published in the Uk by Bath
Press ltd, Bath and I got from Amazom UK but last time I looked it
wasn't on Amazon .com which is a shame.
alison

"Understanding the Rescue Dog" sounds very promising, Allison. (When
will I get to those mysteries, I'm accumulating?
I keep thinking we should establish a lending library at our shelter.
Hardly anyone is allowed to adopt a dog until they're checked out and
returned a few times to interact with the dogs. It would give them
something productive to do.
BTW, does Amazon UK, like Amazon.com, give kick backs? Orders placed
through our website earn us 5%. They must do that with many others,
too.




















Just because humans are slow and can't smell or hear
very well doesn't mean they don't possess a primitive
type of intelligence.

Amazon UK shares a database with
Amazon.com,
Well, I'll be durned. That would never have occurred to me. Thanks,
Melanie.




















Just because humans are slow and can't smell or hear
very well doesn't mean they don't possess a primitive
type of intelligence.

"Chris Williams" wrote in message
...
Alison, I found a page from Price's book on a website:
http://www.zekes.com/~hotline/rescuedog.html
The last sentence is excellent, isn't it?

Yes ! *patience, commitment and knowledge.* and I'd add
consistency as well.
Thanks for finding the page. I did several searches on Carol and
didn't come up with any thing.
Alison

























Just because humans are slow and can't smell or hear
very well doesn't mean they don't possess a primitive
type of intelligence.

"Chris Williams" wrote in message
...
"Understanding the Rescue Dog" sounds very promising, Allison.
(When
will I get to those mysteries, I'm accumulating?
I keep thinking we should establish a lending library at our
shelter.
Hardly anyone is allowed to adopt a dog until they're checked out
and
returned a few times to interact with the dogs. It would give them
something productive to do.
BTW, does Amazon UK, like Amazon.com, give kick backs? Orders
placed
through our website earn us 5%. They must do that with many others,
too.

hi Chris,
A library would be a good idea if they remembered to bring the books
back ,bg.
If your shelter could afford to , maybe you could print out stuff or
just names of books or websites .

Amazon Uk give kick backs . Roo/Alikat does this . Her site is
www.infopet.co.uk It helps pay for the site.
What's your website url ?
Alison





















Just because humans are slow and can't smell or hear
very well doesn't mean they don't possess a primitive
type of intelligence.

"Melanie L Chang" wrote in message
...

I don't know, but I do know that Amazon UK shares a database with
Amazon.com, because I recently ordered a book from Amazon UK (Derek
Scrimgeour's _Talking Sheepdogs_, for the curious) and they already
had
my customer info on file.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Melanie Lee Chang

Hi Mel ,
So , It looks like you can order books on the Amazon Uk site from
the States . I'll suggest that then , Hopefully it works the other way
too.
Alison