Hi folks.

Mannie is a 5 yr old 17 lb. neutered male doxie/terrierofsomesort mix.
He's been our only dog since we got him 3 and a half years ago. He's a
real sweetie, lives to play ball, cuddly as anything, and probably
spoiled rotten.

Did some proto-clicker training, but the loud noise bothered him more
than reinforced him. And he's so "Play is better than food" ish that
treats aren't a real big motivator. But he has a good
sit/down/speak/stay capability, and he'll come when called (almost)
all of the time.

Two nights ago, the woman from Dachshund Rescue came by with Pretzel,
and we decided to give him a try as a second dog. 3 year old neutered
male, 25 lbs. rather than the 17 he should be. (He's not going to get
the table scraps -?full servings?- he got before, and he's pretty
active for such a porker)

By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

We're learning, and we're trying to be firm w/ Mannie so far as
"Otto's going to stay, we love you both, get used to it, you'll like
having a companion some day".

I wonder if there are any general guidelines or specific
activies/techniques/positive experiences that we could use to help
Mannie be more secure, less jealous, and deal w/ Otto's integration
into our 2human-1(now 2) dog pack.

Ferd


Ferd Berfle

"Usenet is Fun!"

"ferd berfle" wrote in message
...


By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

Its not really up to you which dog is dominant, and in many cases there ends
up being no clear "leader" of the dogs. The one who should be dominant is
YOU, not Mannie or the new addition! In my house I have two males, one of
whom is head dog of getting out of doors first, and the other is head dog of
toys. Both get equal time and attention from me, or at least as much time
and attention as they need.

I would manage those resources very carefully so that you don't create
competition where there might not be any. No bones for now, perhaps. Or
only two bones at a time, and if someone finishes their bone, they trade it
for a treat and no one has a bone. I think bones are better left for times
when your kids have sorted things out. In terms of food bowls everyone
should get their own bowl, they should be seperated and perhaps the newcomer
could eat in a crate for now. Then after eating, the bowls get picked up.
Do not leave bowls on the floor to be guarded.


We're learning, and we're trying to be firm w/ Mannie so far as
"Otto's going to stay, we love you both, get used to it, you'll like
having a companion some day".

And he most likely will. When I got my samoyed a keeshond puppy-brother,
there were a couple of dicey days there. I was so sad that Kavik didn't
like his brother I posted a weepy note to the samoyed listserv. Folks there
assured me that it usually takes three to four weeks but the old dog figures
out "If you can't beat em, join em" and everything becomes hunky dory. They
were correct about the hunky dory part, but it took three days, not three
weeks.


I wonder if there are any general guidelines or specific
activies/techniques/positive experiences that we could use to help
Mannie be more secure, less jealous, and deal w/ Otto's integration
into our 2human-1(now 2) dog pack.

In addition to the resource guarding thing, I would absolutely spend some
alone time with mannie - for example maybe he could go for a ride in the
car while Otto stays home, on occasion. But mostly it just takes time.

"ferd berfle" wrote in message
...


By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

Its not really up to you which dog is dominant, and in many cases there ends
up being no clear "leader" of the dogs. The one who should be dominant is
YOU, not Mannie or the new addition! In my house I have two males, one of
whom is head dog of getting out of doors first, and the other is head dog of
toys. Both get equal time and attention from me, or at least as much time
and attention as they need.

I would manage those resources very carefully so that you don't create
competition where there might not be any. No bones for now, perhaps. Or
only two bones at a time, and if someone finishes their bone, they trade it
for a treat and no one has a bone. I think bones are better left for times
when your kids have sorted things out. In terms of food bowls everyone
should get their own bowl, they should be seperated and perhaps the newcomer
could eat in a crate for now. Then after eating, the bowls get picked up.
Do not leave bowls on the floor to be guarded.


We're learning, and we're trying to be firm w/ Mannie so far as
"Otto's going to stay, we love you both, get used to it, you'll like
having a companion some day".

And he most likely will. When I got my samoyed a keeshond puppy-brother,
there were a couple of dicey days there. I was so sad that Kavik didn't
like his brother I posted a weepy note to the samoyed listserv. Folks there
assured me that it usually takes three to four weeks but the old dog figures
out "If you can't beat em, join em" and everything becomes hunky dory. They
were correct about the hunky dory part, but it took three days, not three
weeks.


I wonder if there are any general guidelines or specific
activies/techniques/positive experiences that we could use to help
Mannie be more secure, less jealous, and deal w/ Otto's integration
into our 2human-1(now 2) dog pack.

In addition to the resource guarding thing, I would absolutely spend some
alone time with mannie - for example maybe he could go for a ride in the
car while Otto stays home, on occasion. But mostly it just takes time.

"ferd berfle" wrote in message
...


By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

Its not really up to you which dog is dominant, and in many cases there ends
up being no clear "leader" of the dogs. The one who should be dominant is
YOU, not Mannie or the new addition! In my house I have two males, one of
whom is head dog of getting out of doors first, and the other is head dog of
toys. Both get equal time and attention from me, or at least as much time
and attention as they need.

I would manage those resources very carefully so that you don't create
competition where there might not be any. No bones for now, perhaps. Or
only two bones at a time, and if someone finishes their bone, they trade it
for a treat and no one has a bone. I think bones are better left for times
when your kids have sorted things out. In terms of food bowls everyone
should get their own bowl, they should be seperated and perhaps the newcomer
could eat in a crate for now. Then after eating, the bowls get picked up.
Do not leave bowls on the floor to be guarded.


We're learning, and we're trying to be firm w/ Mannie so far as
"Otto's going to stay, we love you both, get used to it, you'll like
having a companion some day".

And he most likely will. When I got my samoyed a keeshond puppy-brother,
there were a couple of dicey days there. I was so sad that Kavik didn't
like his brother I posted a weepy note to the samoyed listserv. Folks there
assured me that it usually takes three to four weeks but the old dog figures
out "If you can't beat em, join em" and everything becomes hunky dory. They
were correct about the hunky dory part, but it took three days, not three
weeks.


I wonder if there are any general guidelines or specific
activies/techniques/positive experiences that we could use to help
Mannie be more secure, less jealous, and deal w/ Otto's integration
into our 2human-1(now 2) dog pack.

In addition to the resource guarding thing, I would absolutely spend some
alone time with mannie - for example maybe he could go for a ride in the
car while Otto stays home, on occasion. But mostly it just takes time.

"ferd berfle" wrote in message
...


By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

Its not really up to you which dog is dominant, and in many cases there ends
up being no clear "leader" of the dogs. The one who should be dominant is
YOU, not Mannie or the new addition! In my house I have two males, one of
whom is head dog of getting out of doors first, and the other is head dog of
toys. Both get equal time and attention from me, or at least as much time
and attention as they need.

I would manage those resources very carefully so that you don't create
competition where there might not be any. No bones for now, perhaps. Or
only two bones at a time, and if someone finishes their bone, they trade it
for a treat and no one has a bone. I think bones are better left for times
when your kids have sorted things out. In terms of food bowls everyone
should get their own bowl, they should be seperated and perhaps the newcomer
could eat in a crate for now. Then after eating, the bowls get picked up.
Do not leave bowls on the floor to be guarded.


We're learning, and we're trying to be firm w/ Mannie so far as
"Otto's going to stay, we love you both, get used to it, you'll like
having a companion some day".

And he most likely will. When I got my samoyed a keeshond puppy-brother,
there were a couple of dicey days there. I was so sad that Kavik didn't
like his brother I posted a weepy note to the samoyed listserv. Folks there
assured me that it usually takes three to four weeks but the old dog figures
out "If you can't beat em, join em" and everything becomes hunky dory. They
were correct about the hunky dory part, but it took three days, not three
weeks.


I wonder if there are any general guidelines or specific
activies/techniques/positive experiences that we could use to help
Mannie be more secure, less jealous, and deal w/ Otto's integration
into our 2human-1(now 2) dog pack.

In addition to the resource guarding thing, I would absolutely spend some
alone time with mannie - for example maybe he could go for a ride in the
car while Otto stays home, on occasion. But mostly it just takes time.

"Child" wrote in message
...

"ferd berfle" wrote in message
...


By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

Its not really up to you which dog is dominant, and in many cases there
ends
up being no clear "leader" of the dogs. The one who should be dominant is
YOU, not Mannie or the new addition!

What she said- although I'd phrase that last bit as "the one who should be
in charge" or "the one who should be pack leader".
You really can't decide that "Mannie will be the dominant one"- the DOGS,
and their inherent personalities, will determine whether or not one of them
becomes dominant to the other. Your job is only to make sure that nobody
gets hurt in the process of establishing what's what, and to maintain your
own position as pack leader.

When I got the second of the three dogs I currently have, I foolishly
assumed that the elder would be the dominant one by virtue of the fact that
he was older, was first in the household, and is 22 lbs heavier. HA. Ms.
Morag walked in, batted her pretty eyelashes, and informed him that *she*
was the boss now, thank you very much.
Absolutely nothing I could have done would have changed that dynamic-
she's female, she's bossy (not surprising, given that she's half Border
Collie, and all bitch), that's it.

"Child" wrote in message
...

"ferd berfle" wrote in message
...


By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

Its not really up to you which dog is dominant, and in many cases there
ends
up being no clear "leader" of the dogs. The one who should be dominant is
YOU, not Mannie or the new addition!

What she said- although I'd phrase that last bit as "the one who should be
in charge" or "the one who should be pack leader".
You really can't decide that "Mannie will be the dominant one"- the DOGS,
and their inherent personalities, will determine whether or not one of them
becomes dominant to the other. Your job is only to make sure that nobody
gets hurt in the process of establishing what's what, and to maintain your
own position as pack leader.

When I got the second of the three dogs I currently have, I foolishly
assumed that the elder would be the dominant one by virtue of the fact that
he was older, was first in the household, and is 22 lbs heavier. HA. Ms.
Morag walked in, batted her pretty eyelashes, and informed him that *she*
was the boss now, thank you very much.
Absolutely nothing I could have done would have changed that dynamic-
she's female, she's bossy (not surprising, given that she's half Border
Collie, and all bitch), that's it.

"Child" wrote in message
...

"ferd berfle" wrote in message
...


By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

Its not really up to you which dog is dominant, and in many cases there
ends
up being no clear "leader" of the dogs. The one who should be dominant is
YOU, not Mannie or the new addition!

What she said- although I'd phrase that last bit as "the one who should be
in charge" or "the one who should be pack leader".
You really can't decide that "Mannie will be the dominant one"- the DOGS,
and their inherent personalities, will determine whether or not one of them
becomes dominant to the other. Your job is only to make sure that nobody
gets hurt in the process of establishing what's what, and to maintain your
own position as pack leader.

When I got the second of the three dogs I currently have, I foolishly
assumed that the elder would be the dominant one by virtue of the fact that
he was older, was first in the household, and is 22 lbs heavier. HA. Ms.
Morag walked in, batted her pretty eyelashes, and informed him that *she*
was the boss now, thank you very much.
Absolutely nothing I could have done would have changed that dynamic-
she's female, she's bossy (not surprising, given that she's half Border
Collie, and all bitch), that's it.

"Child" wrote in message
...

"ferd berfle" wrote in message
...


By and large, things have gone well. Mannie did have 3 episodes of
"bark, nip and chase" at Otto (working on the rename), and all 3 were
due to contention for a perceived-as-scarce resource (a bone left
outside, food bowl, etc.). And we don't let Mannie hog the human
attention, but we don't ignore him either. He is our first, and he
will be the dominant one.

Its not really up to you which dog is dominant, and in many cases there
ends
up being no clear "leader" of the dogs. The one who should be dominant is
YOU, not Mannie or the new addition!

What she said- although I'd phrase that last bit as "the one who should be
in charge" or "the one who should be pack leader".
You really can't decide that "Mannie will be the dominant one"- the DOGS,
and their inherent personalities, will determine whether or not one of them
becomes dominant to the other. Your job is only to make sure that nobody
gets hurt in the process of establishing what's what, and to maintain your
own position as pack leader.

When I got the second of the three dogs I currently have, I foolishly
assumed that the elder would be the dominant one by virtue of the fact that
he was older, was first in the household, and is 22 lbs heavier. HA. Ms.
Morag walked in, batted her pretty eyelashes, and informed him that *she*
was the boss now, thank you very much.
Absolutely nothing I could have done would have changed that dynamic-
she's female, she's bossy (not surprising, given that she's half Border
Collie, and all bitch), that's it.

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:05:43 -0800, "Child"
wrote:
....snip...

I would manage those resources very carefully so that you don't create
competition where there might not be any. No bones for now, perhaps. Or
only two bones at a time, and if someone finishes their bone, they trade it
for a treat and no one has a bone. I think bones are better left for times
when your kids have sorted things out. In terms of food bowls everyone
should get their own bowl, they should be seperated and perhaps the newcomer
could eat in a crate for now. Then after eating, the bowls get picked up.
Do not leave bowls on the floor to be guarded.

Thanks for the suggestions. We've ended up feeding Otto behind closed
doors (no crates), since Mannie seemes to believe that 2 bowls placed
on the floor are both his and worthy of defense. Eventually, I hope
they get more comfortable in this area, but for now separation seems
to do the trick.


We're learning, and we're trying to be firm w/ Mannie so far as
"Otto's going to stay, we love you both, get used to it, you'll like
having a companion some day".

And he most likely will. When I got my samoyed a keeshond puppy-brother,
there were a couple of dicey days there. I was so sad that Kavik didn't
like his brother I posted a weepy note to the samoyed listserv. Folks there
assured me that it usually takes three to four weeks but the old dog figures
out "If you can't beat em, join em" and everything becomes hunky dory. They
were correct about the hunky dory part, but it took three days, not three
weeks.

We're not at "completely hunky dory" yet, but things are going pretty
well, even "better than expected". They're ok being walked together;
bump into each other w/ no growling/snapping. Took both to the
dogpark yesterday- kept Otto on leash since BigDogz are interested and
imposing. Was able to give Mannie a good ballplaying workout, too.
Otto has little use for toys so far, so no contention there.

Otto does seem to be emerging from "3 homes in one week" trauma and
showing more of his personality. He is increasingly social, and
pretty funny. He's got the dog door figured out. Seems a little
disappointed with the kibble (Where *is* my meatloaf, darn it?) but
has plenty of energy anyway. He will go seriously submissive when I
put on his harness or move him, but he does seem to be getting more
used to these events.

I wonder if there are any general guidelines or specific
activies/techniques/positive experiences that we could use to help
Mannie be more secure, less jealous, and deal w/ Otto's integration
into our 2human-1(now 2) dog pack.

In addition to the resource guarding thing, I would absolutely spend some
alone time with mannie - for example maybe he could go for a ride in the
car while Otto stays home, on occasion. But mostly it just takes time.


Oh yes. I do make "alone time" for both of them.

And thanks for the advice. Time does seem to be helping.


Ferd Berfle

"Usenet is Fun!"