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#1
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in Patterdale Terriers
I believe the cause of the difference is the 'focus' on the "Nuttall" strain
of Fell terrier, which is a vastly "phenotypically" different from the normal hairy, Lakeland/Border terrier crosses that are common in the Fells. Americans, in my opinion, favor shorter haired dogs for the Fell Terrier, and I see the popularity of the Nuttall blood here all the time. At least here in the Southern region, where most Patterdale owners do own, or Bulldogs, or Pit Bulls, etc, and they WORK their dogs. I myself do favor shorter haired dogs for many reasons. My very best hunting Patterdale had a bit of longer hair in various places. Nuttall seems to be a very small pool of genes in the Fell developments. My dogs are of heavy Nuttall breeding, and the black bitch is PURE Nuttall breeding. The Nuttall Dogs have ranged from Bully headed to a shorter muzzles. I you have access to the book titled "The Fell Terrier" by Brian Plummer, it will show you clearly of what I speak. Check page 86, 207, 227, . This showcases the dogs that are commonly used overseas. My dogs favor the dogs of short coat on page 241, 227, 167, 105. These dogs are a strain purposefully developed by, Brian Nuttall, Cyril Breay, and a host of others, that you may have heard of. The variations of Fell terriers is very wide, as far as types. I do prefer the same type that Brian Nuttal developed as well. After being with dogs so long, I have realised that I like almost all dogs, but will only breed what I have need for, and that's tough terriers with the mental and physical capabilities that suit my needs and the colors I like. If you have any other Patterdale pictures or advice, post them. I like seeing new dogs. Thank you |
#2
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I believe the cause of the difference is the 'focus' on the "Nuttall" strain
of Fell terrier, which is a vastly "phenotypically" different from the normal hairy, Lakeland/Border terrier crosses that are common in the Fells. Americans, in my opinion, favor shorter haired dogs for the Fell Terrier, and I see the popularity of the Nuttall blood here all the time. At least here in the Southern region, where most Patterdale owners do own, or Bulldogs, or Pit Bulls, etc, and they WORK their dogs. I myself do favor shorter haired dogs for many reasons. My very best hunting Patterdale had a bit of longer hair in various places. Nuttall seems to be a very small pool of genes in the Fell developments. My dogs are of heavy Nuttall breeding, and the black bitch is PURE Nuttall breeding. The Nuttall Dogs have ranged from Bully headed to a shorter muzzles. I you have access to the book titled "The Fell Terrier" by Brian Plummer, it will show you clearly of what I speak. Check page 86, 207, 227, . This showcases the dogs that are commonly used overseas. My dogs favor the dogs of short coat on page 241, 227, 167, 105. These dogs are a strain purposefully developed by, Brian Nuttall, Cyril Breay, and a host of others, that you may have heard of. The variations of Fell terriers is very wide, as far as types. I do prefer the same type that Brian Nuttal developed as well. After being with dogs so long, I have realised that I like almost all dogs, but will only breed what I have need for, and that's tough terriers with the mental and physical capabilities that suit my needs and the colors I like. If you have any other Patterdale pictures or advice, post them. I like seeing new dogs. Thank you |
#3
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j..... And then there's the Brit ex-pat in California who is breeding
Pats to Borders (or vice versa), and managed to get them registered by the Pat club as purebred Pats. I've seen a bunch of photos and after 20 years in Borders, I Cannot tell these dogs from a Border T (and as our rescue coordinator, I see a Lot of photos for breed ID). In appearance. I have No idea if they have more Pat or more Border T in temperament, working skills and style, and personality.... I haven't heard from any Border T folks who have actually seen and had hands on.... and I don't work my guys (there are only 24 hours in the day and 7 days in the week.... sigh....) so can't discuss that area in any depth. I just enoy listening... The only Fell I have seen here in GA was a number of years ago... coated, and also a Lakie/Border that was a very practical little dog. Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
#4
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j..... And then there's the Brit ex-pat in California who is breeding
Pats to Borders (or vice versa), and managed to get them registered by the Pat club as purebred Pats. I've seen a bunch of photos and after 20 years in Borders, I Cannot tell these dogs from a Border T (and as our rescue coordinator, I see a Lot of photos for breed ID). In appearance. I have No idea if they have more Pat or more Border T in temperament, working skills and style, and personality.... I haven't heard from any Border T folks who have actually seen and had hands on.... and I don't work my guys (there are only 24 hours in the day and 7 days in the week.... sigh....) so can't discuss that area in any depth. I just enoy listening... The only Fell I have seen here in GA was a number of years ago... coated, and also a Lakie/Border that was a very practical little dog. Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
#5
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j..... And then there's the Brit ex-pat in California who is breeding
Pats to Borders (or vice versa), and managed to get them registered by the Pat club as purebred Pats. I've seen a bunch of photos and after 20 years in Borders, I Cannot tell these dogs from a Border T (and as our rescue coordinator, I see a Lot of photos for breed ID). In appearance. I have No idea if they have more Pat or more Border T in temperament, working skills and style, and personality.... I haven't heard from any Border T folks who have actually seen and had hands on.... and I don't work my guys (there are only 24 hours in the day and 7 days in the week.... sigh....) so can't discuss that area in any depth. I just enoy listening... The only Fell I have seen here in GA was a number of years ago... coated, and also a Lakie/Border that was a very practical little dog. Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
#6
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With so many variances, I do not know on what lines anyone could establish a
"standard", and register the dog, as the field is too broad. The PTCA offers this standard, which is WIDE OPEN, in my humble opinion... http://www.ptca.00go.com/whats_new.html Such an open standard can only result in a judge's favored fancy. I actually like the somewhat openess of it. It allows progression in the breed, especially when bred to work. Any fixed type, that will be bred by different breeders, will absolutely deteriorate the breed. I know from Primary Data, in other words with my own eyes, of semi-long haired terriers that will absolutely attack a Pitbull. Of course the dog ended up with a huge hole in the face. Point being, the Border/...? mixes also bring the guts from the Border into the line. Nuttall's line are of some small Pit fighting terrier stock from where is from. These are excellent terriers as well. I personally prefer short hair, or semi-short hair, and I do respect the long hairs, because many are great terriers. After studying the books and pedigrees, it seems that the large majority of these terriers are not line bred, and that people developed these dogs from whatever fit the bill at the time. I guess that's the lovely thing about a dog bred to work.... Only it's abitlity to work(physical) the selected quarry, and tenacity actually make any difference. Of course, people definitly have an affinity to one look or another, so that naturally comes into play. Many of the developers used Border T's to strenthen and typify their lines. Do you still own Borders? I too am in Georgia. "Jo Wolf" wrote in message ... j..... And then there's the Brit ex-pat in California who is breeding Pats to Borders (or vice versa), and managed to get them registered by the Pat club as purebred Pats. I've seen a bunch of photos and after 20 years in Borders, I Cannot tell these dogs from a Border T (and as our rescue coordinator, I see a Lot of photos for breed ID). In appearance. I have No idea if they have more Pat or more Border T in temperament, working skills and style, and personality.... I haven't heard from any Border T folks who have actually seen and had hands on.... and I don't work my guys (there are only 24 hours in the day and 7 days in the week.... sigh....) so can't discuss that area in any depth. I just enoy listening... The only Fell I have seen here in GA was a number of years ago... coated, and also a Lakie/Border that was a very practical little dog. Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
#7
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With so many variances, I do not know on what lines anyone could establish a
"standard", and register the dog, as the field is too broad. The PTCA offers this standard, which is WIDE OPEN, in my humble opinion... http://www.ptca.00go.com/whats_new.html Such an open standard can only result in a judge's favored fancy. I actually like the somewhat openess of it. It allows progression in the breed, especially when bred to work. Any fixed type, that will be bred by different breeders, will absolutely deteriorate the breed. I know from Primary Data, in other words with my own eyes, of semi-long haired terriers that will absolutely attack a Pitbull. Of course the dog ended up with a huge hole in the face. Point being, the Border/...? mixes also bring the guts from the Border into the line. Nuttall's line are of some small Pit fighting terrier stock from where is from. These are excellent terriers as well. I personally prefer short hair, or semi-short hair, and I do respect the long hairs, because many are great terriers. After studying the books and pedigrees, it seems that the large majority of these terriers are not line bred, and that people developed these dogs from whatever fit the bill at the time. I guess that's the lovely thing about a dog bred to work.... Only it's abitlity to work(physical) the selected quarry, and tenacity actually make any difference. Of course, people definitly have an affinity to one look or another, so that naturally comes into play. Many of the developers used Border T's to strenthen and typify their lines. Do you still own Borders? I too am in Georgia. "Jo Wolf" wrote in message ... j..... And then there's the Brit ex-pat in California who is breeding Pats to Borders (or vice versa), and managed to get them registered by the Pat club as purebred Pats. I've seen a bunch of photos and after 20 years in Borders, I Cannot tell these dogs from a Border T (and as our rescue coordinator, I see a Lot of photos for breed ID). In appearance. I have No idea if they have more Pat or more Border T in temperament, working skills and style, and personality.... I haven't heard from any Border T folks who have actually seen and had hands on.... and I don't work my guys (there are only 24 hours in the day and 7 days in the week.... sigh....) so can't discuss that area in any depth. I just enoy listening... The only Fell I have seen here in GA was a number of years ago... coated, and also a Lakie/Border that was a very practical little dog. Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
#8
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With so many variances, I do not know on what lines anyone could establish a
"standard", and register the dog, as the field is too broad. The PTCA offers this standard, which is WIDE OPEN, in my humble opinion... http://www.ptca.00go.com/whats_new.html Such an open standard can only result in a judge's favored fancy. I actually like the somewhat openess of it. It allows progression in the breed, especially when bred to work. Any fixed type, that will be bred by different breeders, will absolutely deteriorate the breed. I know from Primary Data, in other words with my own eyes, of semi-long haired terriers that will absolutely attack a Pitbull. Of course the dog ended up with a huge hole in the face. Point being, the Border/...? mixes also bring the guts from the Border into the line. Nuttall's line are of some small Pit fighting terrier stock from where is from. These are excellent terriers as well. I personally prefer short hair, or semi-short hair, and I do respect the long hairs, because many are great terriers. After studying the books and pedigrees, it seems that the large majority of these terriers are not line bred, and that people developed these dogs from whatever fit the bill at the time. I guess that's the lovely thing about a dog bred to work.... Only it's abitlity to work(physical) the selected quarry, and tenacity actually make any difference. Of course, people definitly have an affinity to one look or another, so that naturally comes into play. Many of the developers used Border T's to strenthen and typify their lines. Do you still own Borders? I too am in Georgia. "Jo Wolf" wrote in message ... j..... And then there's the Brit ex-pat in California who is breeding Pats to Borders (or vice versa), and managed to get them registered by the Pat club as purebred Pats. I've seen a bunch of photos and after 20 years in Borders, I Cannot tell these dogs from a Border T (and as our rescue coordinator, I see a Lot of photos for breed ID). In appearance. I have No idea if they have more Pat or more Border T in temperament, working skills and style, and personality.... I haven't heard from any Border T folks who have actually seen and had hands on.... and I don't work my guys (there are only 24 hours in the day and 7 days in the week.... sigh....) so can't discuss that area in any depth. I just enoy listening... The only Fell I have seen here in GA was a number of years ago... coated, and also a Lakie/Border that was a very practical little dog. Jo Wolf Martinez, Georgia |
#9
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Jo Wolf writes:
I've seen a bunch of photos and after 20 years in Borders, I Cannot tell these dogs from a Border T (and as our rescue coordinator, I see a Lot of photos for breed ID). Oh, we have a Pug X Poodle Mix in at the shelter that came out looking like a somewhat "silky" haired Border Terrier with tightly curled tail. But face on, it looks like a BT mix for sure, and I would never, ever have guessed what it really is. |
#10
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Jo Wolf writes:
I've seen a bunch of photos and after 20 years in Borders, I Cannot tell these dogs from a Border T (and as our rescue coordinator, I see a Lot of photos for breed ID). Oh, we have a Pug X Poodle Mix in at the shelter that came out looking like a somewhat "silky" haired Border Terrier with tightly curled tail. But face on, it looks like a BT mix for sure, and I would never, ever have guessed what it really is. |
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