A dog & canine forum. DogBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » DogBanter forum » Dog forums » Dog behavior
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

A Note to Owners of Non-Aggressive dogs and Agility



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 19th 04, 03:38 PM
Robin Nuttall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A Note to Owners of Non-Aggressive dogs and Agility

I thought about whether to write about this, because I know aggression
and space issues have been discussed before. But apparently not often
enough, because there are still too many people out there who seem to
have no clue about space and aggression issues at agility trials.

This past weekend was a perfect example. I was at an agility trial. I
needed to potty my young girl, who is defensive reactive. A group of
three people with a Golden in the midst of them were standing around
talking. I started to walk by, keeping Cala a good 3 feet away (as far
as I could get), my hand in her collar and cinched to my thigh. The
Golden came around the back of her owner and walked right up to Cala. I
froze and said, "you might want to get your dog." No response--they
didn't even bother to turn around. I was able to scoot Cala by. Only
then did someone from the group even bother to look at me. I said,
again, "you might want to keep a better eye on your dog." They looked at
me like I had three heads.

Next, I had Cala out to run in Standard. Again, I had my hand in her
collar and cinched to my thigh, and I was trying to stand in a corner
out of the way. Next thing I know, a huge roar--a Cattle Dog was right
on top of her and she was letting him know to lay off.

In the final incident I was walking my older dog back down the aisleway
to her crate. Another group of people, again with a Golden, were letting
their dog wander around the aisleway without a leash! She wandered right
up to Viva, a good 10 feet from her owners who were, again, standing
around talking. It was not the same dog who had accosted Cala earlier. I
again froze, and said, "your dog is loose." No response. Then a judge,
who also owns Goldens, kindly intervened and told them, "you need to get
your dog. You can't let your dog run around loose, this dog is
aggressive." Now Viva is NOT aggressive. But if I'd been walking Cala up
that aisleway, there would have been a noisy and unpleasant incident.
Which, of course, would be "all Cala's fault."

I am just amazed at how many people seem to be totally clueless about
dog behavior, dog aggression, and the concept of personal space.
Unfortunately Golden people, as a rule, tend to be the worst. Cala is
all noise and no bite, and she doesn't ask for much--she'll tolerate and
ignore dogs just a few inches away as long as they aren't physically
shoving themselves on her. But if the dog is less than a foot away and
locking eyes with her, or shoves a nose into her face or butt, you're
going to hear about it from her and from me.

Those of us who own dogs who have space issues have a responsibility to
make sure we are aware of our surroundings. We are hyper alert and most
of the time other people never know that there's an issue with our dogs.
But you know what? We can't do it alone. It's YOUR responsibility, as
owners of non-aggressive dogs, to ALSO be aware of space and to NOT let
YOUR dog just wander around at will saying hi to strange dogs. It
doesn't matter if your dog is aggressive or not. Dogs at trials need to
keep to themselves. Period.

If an incident does happen, the owner of the non-aggressive dog needs to
seriously question himself as to whether he was at least somewhat
culpable. In the situations this past weekend, if something had
happened, my bet is that I and my dog would have shouldered 100% of the
blame. Would we have deserved it? I don't think so.

  #2  
Old October 19th 04, 04:11 PM
Tee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I can completely relate from a non-agility/sports aspect. Having Fancy who
sounds alot like Cala makes me have to pay very close attention to other
people's dogs when I have her out in public rather than just having to pay
attention to her.

People seem to think they only have to worry about their own dog and if said
dog isn't aggressive and doesn't have a shady history then "oh he/she's
fine." They *never* stop to consider how other dogs will react to their
"fine" dog.

I tend to have the worst problems at the vet's office. Everyone thinks
Fancy is so cute and since she is very sweet to them then *obviously* she'd
just love their foo-foo dog whose main goal in life is to ram his nose
between Fancy's rear legs. That's a fast way to get a flattened foo-foo.
When she starts growling and I'm shooing the other dog away the dog's owners
suddenly look at me like I'm a bitch and at Fancy like she's Cujo.

I can't take her to parks very often due to off-leash dogs. I don't even
walk her in my neighborhood often for the same reason. She's not going to
tear off after another dog but she absolutely will respond if a strange dog
approaches her.

--
Tara


  #3  
Old October 19th 04, 04:11 PM
Tee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I can completely relate from a non-agility/sports aspect. Having Fancy who
sounds alot like Cala makes me have to pay very close attention to other
people's dogs when I have her out in public rather than just having to pay
attention to her.

People seem to think they only have to worry about their own dog and if said
dog isn't aggressive and doesn't have a shady history then "oh he/she's
fine." They *never* stop to consider how other dogs will react to their
"fine" dog.

I tend to have the worst problems at the vet's office. Everyone thinks
Fancy is so cute and since she is very sweet to them then *obviously* she'd
just love their foo-foo dog whose main goal in life is to ram his nose
between Fancy's rear legs. That's a fast way to get a flattened foo-foo.
When she starts growling and I'm shooing the other dog away the dog's owners
suddenly look at me like I'm a bitch and at Fancy like she's Cujo.

I can't take her to parks very often due to off-leash dogs. I don't even
walk her in my neighborhood often for the same reason. She's not going to
tear off after another dog but she absolutely will respond if a strange dog
approaches her.

--
Tara


  #4  
Old October 19th 04, 04:34 PM
Robin Nuttall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Tee wrote:


I can't take her to parks very often due to off-leash dogs. I don't even
walk her in my neighborhood often for the same reason. She's not going to
tear off after another dog but she absolutely will respond if a strange dog
approaches her.


I do take Cala for walks in our offleash area (a huge reclaimed prairie
more than a park). And she's fine *unless* the other dog comes charging
up to her. I use lots of treats and distraction techniques. I also put
her on a leash when we see other dog, because sometimes she thinks the
best defense is a good offense.

I've been screamed at for having a "nasty aggressive dog" when another
park goer's dog ran up to Cala at full speed and shoved himself on top
of her. Well gee, she didn't like that much. Fortunately that's rare.

  #5  
Old October 19th 04, 04:34 PM
Robin Nuttall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Tee wrote:


I can't take her to parks very often due to off-leash dogs. I don't even
walk her in my neighborhood often for the same reason. She's not going to
tear off after another dog but she absolutely will respond if a strange dog
approaches her.


I do take Cala for walks in our offleash area (a huge reclaimed prairie
more than a park). And she's fine *unless* the other dog comes charging
up to her. I use lots of treats and distraction techniques. I also put
her on a leash when we see other dog, because sometimes she thinks the
best defense is a good offense.

I've been screamed at for having a "nasty aggressive dog" when another
park goer's dog ran up to Cala at full speed and shoved himself on top
of her. Well gee, she didn't like that much. Fortunately that's rare.

  #6  
Old October 19th 04, 05:52 PM
Susan Fraser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Robin, I have to agree that us golden people are the worst. I've only ever had
goldens all my adult life, and they are such social butterflies that it is
sometimes hard to relate to any other temperament in a dog. (Although much to
my chagrin, the only agression I saw at the ob trial this week-end was between
two goldens, so unfortunately even that immutable law of the universe is
changing ;-(

And in novice classes of every venue, cluess newbie people whose pups playfully
react to my gopldens' golden play-bow and let their dog come over for some
quick bitey-face do NOT help my dogs learn what is and isn't acceptable...

I have a fortunate relationship with my trainer, whose pointer is the
self-appointed "fun police". Busy goldens bother her, and she lets them know
it. So in the hotel room this week-end, she put on her badge and taught Sham
and Gris-Gris their correct place in the the world, which is obviously hudled
quietly in a corner, gaze averted. ;- And I was amazed to see how the lesson
carried over into their demeanor around other dogs at the trial the next day!!
(But didn't in any way affect their natural zest for being there, btw)

So perhaps you could offer some of the worst offenders some "free lessons" in
doggie demeanor in public?? LOL!!!


Susan Fraser, owned and trained by
BeBop a Lu SheBop SH
Shamma Lamma Ding Dong CD MH
and Gris Gris Gumbo YaYa
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/chinch...densinthenews/
  #7  
Old October 19th 04, 05:52 PM
Susan Fraser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Robin, I have to agree that us golden people are the worst. I've only ever had
goldens all my adult life, and they are such social butterflies that it is
sometimes hard to relate to any other temperament in a dog. (Although much to
my chagrin, the only agression I saw at the ob trial this week-end was between
two goldens, so unfortunately even that immutable law of the universe is
changing ;-(

And in novice classes of every venue, cluess newbie people whose pups playfully
react to my gopldens' golden play-bow and let their dog come over for some
quick bitey-face do NOT help my dogs learn what is and isn't acceptable...

I have a fortunate relationship with my trainer, whose pointer is the
self-appointed "fun police". Busy goldens bother her, and she lets them know
it. So in the hotel room this week-end, she put on her badge and taught Sham
and Gris-Gris their correct place in the the world, which is obviously hudled
quietly in a corner, gaze averted. ;- And I was amazed to see how the lesson
carried over into their demeanor around other dogs at the trial the next day!!
(But didn't in any way affect their natural zest for being there, btw)

So perhaps you could offer some of the worst offenders some "free lessons" in
doggie demeanor in public?? LOL!!!


Susan Fraser, owned and trained by
BeBop a Lu SheBop SH
Shamma Lamma Ding Dong CD MH
and Gris Gris Gumbo YaYa
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/chinch...densinthenews/
  #8  
Old October 19th 04, 06:19 PM
Robin Nuttall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Susan Fraser wrote:


I have a fortunate relationship with my trainer, whose pointer is the
self-appointed "fun police". Busy goldens bother her, and she lets them know
it. So in the hotel room this week-end, she put on her badge and taught Sham
and Gris-Gris their correct place in the the world, which is obviously hudled
quietly in a corner, gaze averted. ;- And I was amazed to see how the lesson
carried over into their demeanor around other dogs at the trial the next day!!
(But didn't in any way affect their natural zest for being there, btw)

So perhaps you could offer some of the worst offenders some "free lessons" in
doggie demeanor in public?? LOL!!!


No. Sorry, but no. I know you kind of meant that as a joke, but so
often, when I say, "my dog doesn't like other dogs in her face," people
will say, "well, if Fifi goes over there, she deserves to get bitten,"
or "let your dog put my dog in her place!"

Sorry, but this is NOT.NOT.NOT. appropriate either! I don't want my dog
to feel it's her job or right to be the fun police. She doesn't get to
decide who gets disciplined and who doesn't. That's my job. Sorry, but
if that pointer was staying with me, she'd be in a crate or my dogs would.

Nor do I want my dog to feel like she must constantly defend herself. In
the case of Cala, this is defensive/fear aggression. She was fine with
dogs all through puppyhood, but after several incidences where other
dogs jumped and/or outright attacked her, she decided the best defense
was a good offense. Ideally, I'd like her to think that I will protect
her from all comers and that she can relax and not worry about it. We're
working on that, and we're at the point where she really is totally fine
around other dogs, even in close proximity, as long as they leave her
alone. Shoving a nose in her face or posturing and staring from a foot
away is not leaving her alone.

So another note for those of you with overly friendly dogs, please do
NOT use my dog as a training tool for your dog. It could be very
damaging for both.

  #9  
Old October 19th 04, 06:19 PM
Robin Nuttall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Susan Fraser wrote:


I have a fortunate relationship with my trainer, whose pointer is the
self-appointed "fun police". Busy goldens bother her, and she lets them know
it. So in the hotel room this week-end, she put on her badge and taught Sham
and Gris-Gris their correct place in the the world, which is obviously hudled
quietly in a corner, gaze averted. ;- And I was amazed to see how the lesson
carried over into their demeanor around other dogs at the trial the next day!!
(But didn't in any way affect their natural zest for being there, btw)

So perhaps you could offer some of the worst offenders some "free lessons" in
doggie demeanor in public?? LOL!!!


No. Sorry, but no. I know you kind of meant that as a joke, but so
often, when I say, "my dog doesn't like other dogs in her face," people
will say, "well, if Fifi goes over there, she deserves to get bitten,"
or "let your dog put my dog in her place!"

Sorry, but this is NOT.NOT.NOT. appropriate either! I don't want my dog
to feel it's her job or right to be the fun police. She doesn't get to
decide who gets disciplined and who doesn't. That's my job. Sorry, but
if that pointer was staying with me, she'd be in a crate or my dogs would.

Nor do I want my dog to feel like she must constantly defend herself. In
the case of Cala, this is defensive/fear aggression. She was fine with
dogs all through puppyhood, but after several incidences where other
dogs jumped and/or outright attacked her, she decided the best defense
was a good offense. Ideally, I'd like her to think that I will protect
her from all comers and that she can relax and not worry about it. We're
working on that, and we're at the point where she really is totally fine
around other dogs, even in close proximity, as long as they leave her
alone. Shoving a nose in her face or posturing and staring from a foot
away is not leaving her alone.

So another note for those of you with overly friendly dogs, please do
NOT use my dog as a training tool for your dog. It could be very
damaging for both.

  #10  
Old October 19th 04, 06:28 PM
diannes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Robin Nuttall wrote:
Those of us who own dogs who have space issues have a responsibility to
make sure we are aware of our surroundings.


I agree with you 100% - with the following modifications:

- I think the subject line should be "A Note to Owners of Dogs"

- And from the sentence above I'd remove the phrase "who have space issues".
IOW, I think the sentence should be "Those of us who own dogs have a
responsibility to make sure we are aware of our surroundings."

IME it's just RUDE RUDE RUDE for anyone to ever allow their dog to approach
a person or another dog without permission when they're in public. And I
think that if anything you were too polite to these people. What I say in
these situations is "Please keep your dog away from mine." It doesn't matter
*why* you don't their dog in your dog's face - you and your dog have a right
not to be bothered. And putting it as bluntly as that makes the point that
it's THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to keep their dog under control.

So no more of this "you might want to..." stuff, OK? *g* You DO have a
right not to be hassled by other people's dogs whether you're at a trial
or not.

Dianne

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ping: Melanie Debbie S Dog behavior 966 January 20th 04 05:18 PM
Some people need educating!! CPit_Dogs Dog breeds 12 November 13th 03 05:47 AM
1 Day Left to Enroll in the 2003 Texas Iron Dogs Camp Andrew Mouser Dog activities 0 October 14th 03 12:12 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 (Unauthorized Upgrade)
Copyright ©2004-2024 DogBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.