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I just talked to Maxxie



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 17th 03, 06:50 AM
Maxie P. Diddly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I just talked to Maxxie

"Zsarnok" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Mine love chocolate -- don't yell.


Dogs love most food. That doesn't mean you should give it to them.

I give them an itty bitty
piece and counter it with doggie vits & flax oil. They eat better

than
I do.


Giving your dog chocolate is neither a good thing, nor is it smart.

http://members.fortunecity.com/somal...lineDiseases/C
hocolate.htm

QUESTION: With it being Christmas time, there's a lot of chocolate
around my house, everything from cookies to miniature candy bars. I
know chocolate is bad for dogs, but does anyone know WHY? I'm a
pre-vet student, and I'm curious as to the physiological effects of
chocolate in a dog. What is in it that is harmful, and what does that
ingredient do to the dog? With two dogs in the house, and one being a
puppy that chews or eats everything in sight, this would be useful
information.

--------------------------------------

The dangerous ingredient of chocoloate for dogs is theobromine, which
is a methylxanthine and thus is chemically related to caffeine.
Theobromine takes much longer to be metabolized in dogs, about 17.5
hours, than in humans.

From an article in the chemistry section of about.com, "Theobromine,
caffeine's chocolate cousin"
http://chemistry.about.com/science/c...ekly/aa061900a.
htm

"In humans, theobromine has a ten-fold less stimulating effect than
does caffeine. This is not the case in dogs, whose metabolic machinery
removes theobromine very slowly, and who are therefore vulnerable to
cardiac and central ervous system distress from this alkaloid (and
from caffeine, as well). A toxic dose is estimated as between 100 to
200 milligrams of theobromine per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of a dog's
body weight."

From the Parvets page, "Chocolage - theobromine, further information"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-...rtherinfo.html

"Fatal doses of theobromine for dogs are suggested as ranging from
90-250 mg/kg though some sources report 100-500mg/kg, this suggests
that there is considerable individual variation in what represents a
fatal dose. But deaths have certainly been reported at the lower end
of the range. Also while a dog may survive a higher dose it will
probably have been seriously ill and required significant supportive
care and treatment."

"The LD50 is quoted as 100-300 mg/kg body weight. This is the dose
that will kill 50% of the dogs eating it. 12 mg/kg causes no visible
ill effects."

From the page, "Chocolate Poisoning in Dogs" by Kevin Fitzgerald,
Ph.D., D.V.M. http://www.apogeevideo.com/advice/article1.htm

"Milk chocolate is obtained from seeds of theobroma cacao after
fermentation and roasting. Milk chocolate has about 44 mg/ounce of
theobromine; a 4.5 oz. milk chocolate bar has about 240 mgs. of
theobromine. Unsweetened baking chocolate has even more -- about 390
to 450 mgs of theobromine per ounce."

"Relative theobromine content per ounce for various products is:

Milk chocolate: 44 - 60 mgs/ounce
Unsweetened baking chocolate: 450 mg/oz
Cacao meal: 300 - 900 mg/oz
Cacao beans: 300 - 1200 mg/oz
Hot chocolate: 13 mg/oz"

"The lethal dosage of theobromine in dogs is between 250 and 500
mgs/kg, or about 2/3 to 1 1/3 of baking chocolate for every 2.2 pounds
of body weight. However, serious non-fatal poisonings have been
reported in dogs after eating smaller amounts."

For more information on this: The Straight Dope, "Is chocolate
poisonous to dogs?" http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_211.html

ParkVets, "Chocolate, a sweet death"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-chocolate.html

Veterinary Information Network, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://www.vin.com/mainpub/xmas/chocolate_tox.asp

Janet Crosby, DVM, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://vetmedicine.about.com/health/...weekly/aa02090
0a.htm

I don't have saved info or time right now to search. Choc. can kill a
dog and does. semii-sweet choc is 10 times worse. Get all your
chocolate and immediately put it in your refrigerator. Save your self
some heartache. If you ever have mice, put m&m choc. candies behind
the appliance or a place your pets can't get to. Mice eat them and
dehydrate and it makes them leave the house looking for water - then
they die.

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html Pet First Aid:
Chocolate poisoning in dogs by Dr. Kevin Fitzgerald

http://www.bostonterrierhealth.org/ Boston Terrier Health Site and
Store

Pet Care Tips:

CHOCOLATE IS DANGEROUS FOR PETS

Give chocolate to loved ones, and you could end up poisoning them.
That is, if the loved ones are your pets. Even small amounts of
theobromine, an ingredient in chocolate, can cause vomiting and
restlessness in pets. Larger doses can be fatal. While most pet owners
expect a dog to develop an upset stomach after eating a large amount
of chocolate, few realize its toxic potential.

The lethal dose of theobromine depends on the size of the dog and the
type of chocolate. Ounce for ounce, baking chocolate has six to nine
times as much of the substance as milk chocolate does.

Estimates of the smallest amounts that can be fatal a

4 to 10 ounces of milk chocolate or 1/2 to 1 ounce of baking chocolate
for small dogs, such as Chihuahuas and toy poodles.

1 to 1 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 2 to 3 ounces of baking
chocolate for medium-sized dogs like cocker spaniels and dachshunds.

2 to 4 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 4 to 8 ounces of baking
chocolate for large dogs, including collies and Labrador retrievers.

While a very small amount of chocolate may not harm some dogs, it's
safest to avoid giving it to them at all. If an accident occurs, a
veterinarian should be consulted. Treatment may require inducing
vomiting, stabilizing the animal's heartbeat and respiration,
controlling seizures and slowing the absorption of theobromine. If the
animal already is comatose, its stomach may need to be pumped.

-----------------------------------

Chocolate contains theobromine and caffeine, which are both methylated
alkaloids. Theobromine is the primary toxin. Both of these alkaloids
are easily absorbed orally and widely spread throughout the body
before being metabolized by the liver. Both also undergo renal
excretion, which is more rapid in the presence of acid urine.

One MOTA (method of toxic action) is inhibition of intercellular
calcium sequestration. This results in a lowered threshold of
stimulation for cardiac and skeletal muscle. These toxic alkaloids are
also cAMP receptor antagonists, so there is increased stimulation of
the CNS, vasoconstriction, tachycardia, and stimulation of the sensory
cortex resulting in increased mental alertness.

Dogs are more sensitive than cats, for once! In dogs, the lethal oral
dose is 300 mg/kg; it's 700 mg/kg in cats. Baking chocolate contains
about 400 mg/ounce, dark chocolate 150 mg/oz, milk chocolate 50 mg/oz
(approximately!)

Clinical signs of chocolate toxicity include:

hyperactivity,
restlessness,
tachycardia,
tachypnea,
hyperreflexia,
hyperthermia within 1-2 hours.

These signs may be accompanied by urinary incontinence, vomiting and
diarrhea, and can progress to muscle fasciculations, twitching, and
terminal tetanic to convulsive seizures.

Standard therapy includes detox with activated charcoal, (every 3-4
hours), gastric emptying (which can be hard to acheive since the
chocolate makes a gooey mess which tends to adhere to the mucosa) and
osmotic cathartics. Emetics are as always contraindicated with
seizures (control seizures with diazepam or short-acting barbituates
first).

Supportive treatment includes promotion of renal excretion via
acidification of urine, treatment of tachycardia with lidocaine (dogs
only) or metoprolol (propanolol can also be used for tachyarrhymias,
but it may slow renal excretion), and IV fluid support.

Kidney Disease in Dogs website: symptoms, diagnosis, treatment,
management (medical and dietary), recipes, breed specific renal
diseases, genetics, current research, bibliography and abstracts
http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/

Canine Renal Disease Website: mirror site of above
http://www.geocities.com/slfleisher.geo/

Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3596/jrd.html

Clinical article on Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/H...nfleisher.html

http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm

Juvenile and familial renal diseases in dogs:
http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm




  #2  
Old October 17th 03, 07:05 AM
Hy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There is a dog in our area who ate chocolate and is now blind at a
relatively young age, specifically because he ate the chocolate.

Maxie P. Diddly wrote:
"Zsarnok" wrote in message
hlink.net...


Mine love chocolate -- don't yell.



Dogs love most food. That doesn't mean you should give it to them.


I give them an itty bitty
piece and counter it with doggie vits & flax oil. They eat better


than

I do.



Giving your dog chocolate is neither a good thing, nor is it smart.

http://members.fortunecity.com/somal...lineDiseases/C
hocolate.htm

QUESTION: With it being Christmas time, there's a lot of chocolate
around my house, everything from cookies to miniature candy bars. I
know chocolate is bad for dogs, but does anyone know WHY? I'm a
pre-vet student, and I'm curious as to the physiological effects of
chocolate in a dog. What is in it that is harmful, and what does that
ingredient do to the dog? With two dogs in the house, and one being a
puppy that chews or eats everything in sight, this would be useful
information.

--------------------------------------

The dangerous ingredient of chocoloate for dogs is theobromine, which
is a methylxanthine and thus is chemically related to caffeine.
Theobromine takes much longer to be metabolized in dogs, about 17.5
hours, than in humans.

From an article in the chemistry section of about.com, "Theobromine,
caffeine's chocolate cousin"
http://chemistry.about.com/science/c...ekly/aa061900a.
htm

"In humans, theobromine has a ten-fold less stimulating effect than
does caffeine. This is not the case in dogs, whose metabolic machinery
removes theobromine very slowly, and who are therefore vulnerable to
cardiac and central ervous system distress from this alkaloid (and
from caffeine, as well). A toxic dose is estimated as between 100 to
200 milligrams of theobromine per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of a dog's
body weight."

From the Parvets page, "Chocolage - theobromine, further information"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-...rtherinfo.html

"Fatal doses of theobromine for dogs are suggested as ranging from
90-250 mg/kg though some sources report 100-500mg/kg, this suggests
that there is considerable individual variation in what represents a
fatal dose. But deaths have certainly been reported at the lower end
of the range. Also while a dog may survive a higher dose it will
probably have been seriously ill and required significant supportive
care and treatment."

"The LD50 is quoted as 100-300 mg/kg body weight. This is the dose
that will kill 50% of the dogs eating it. 12 mg/kg causes no visible
ill effects."

From the page, "Chocolate Poisoning in Dogs" by Kevin Fitzgerald,
Ph.D., D.V.M. http://www.apogeevideo.com/advice/article1.htm

"Milk chocolate is obtained from seeds of theobroma cacao after
fermentation and roasting. Milk chocolate has about 44 mg/ounce of
theobromine; a 4.5 oz. milk chocolate bar has about 240 mgs. of
theobromine. Unsweetened baking chocolate has even more -- about 390
to 450 mgs of theobromine per ounce."

"Relative theobromine content per ounce for various products is:

Milk chocolate: 44 - 60 mgs/ounce
Unsweetened baking chocolate: 450 mg/oz
Cacao meal: 300 - 900 mg/oz
Cacao beans: 300 - 1200 mg/oz
Hot chocolate: 13 mg/oz"

"The lethal dosage of theobromine in dogs is between 250 and 500
mgs/kg, or about 2/3 to 1 1/3 of baking chocolate for every 2.2 pounds
of body weight. However, serious non-fatal poisonings have been
reported in dogs after eating smaller amounts."

For more information on this: The Straight Dope, "Is chocolate
poisonous to dogs?" http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_211.html

ParkVets, "Chocolate, a sweet death"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-chocolate.html

Veterinary Information Network, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://www.vin.com/mainpub/xmas/chocolate_tox.asp

Janet Crosby, DVM, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://vetmedicine.about.com/health/...weekly/aa02090
0a.htm

I don't have saved info or time right now to search. Choc. can kill a
dog and does. semii-sweet choc is 10 times worse. Get all your
chocolate and immediately put it in your refrigerator. Save your self
some heartache. If you ever have mice, put m&m choc. candies behind
the appliance or a place your pets can't get to. Mice eat them and
dehydrate and it makes them leave the house looking for water - then
they die.

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html Pet First Aid:
Chocolate poisoning in dogs by Dr. Kevin Fitzgerald

http://www.bostonterrierhealth.org/ Boston Terrier Health Site and
Store

Pet Care Tips:

CHOCOLATE IS DANGEROUS FOR PETS

Give chocolate to loved ones, and you could end up poisoning them.
That is, if the loved ones are your pets. Even small amounts of
theobromine, an ingredient in chocolate, can cause vomiting and
restlessness in pets. Larger doses can be fatal. While most pet owners
expect a dog to develop an upset stomach after eating a large amount
of chocolate, few realize its toxic potential.

The lethal dose of theobromine depends on the size of the dog and the
type of chocolate. Ounce for ounce, baking chocolate has six to nine
times as much of the substance as milk chocolate does.

Estimates of the smallest amounts that can be fatal a

4 to 10 ounces of milk chocolate or 1/2 to 1 ounce of baking chocolate
for small dogs, such as Chihuahuas and toy poodles.

1 to 1 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 2 to 3 ounces of baking
chocolate for medium-sized dogs like cocker spaniels and dachshunds.

2 to 4 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 4 to 8 ounces of baking
chocolate for large dogs, including collies and Labrador retrievers.

While a very small amount of chocolate may not harm some dogs, it's
safest to avoid giving it to them at all. If an accident occurs, a
veterinarian should be consulted. Treatment may require inducing
vomiting, stabilizing the animal's heartbeat and respiration,
controlling seizures and slowing the absorption of theobromine. If the
animal already is comatose, its stomach may need to be pumped.

-----------------------------------

Chocolate contains theobromine and caffeine, which are both methylated
alkaloids. Theobromine is the primary toxin. Both of these alkaloids
are easily absorbed orally and widely spread throughout the body
before being metabolized by the liver. Both also undergo renal
excretion, which is more rapid in the presence of acid urine.

One MOTA (method of toxic action) is inhibition of intercellular
calcium sequestration. This results in a lowered threshold of
stimulation for cardiac and skeletal muscle. These toxic alkaloids are
also cAMP receptor antagonists, so there is increased stimulation of
the CNS, vasoconstriction, tachycardia, and stimulation of the sensory
cortex resulting in increased mental alertness.

Dogs are more sensitive than cats, for once! In dogs, the lethal oral
dose is 300 mg/kg; it's 700 mg/kg in cats. Baking chocolate contains
about 400 mg/ounce, dark chocolate 150 mg/oz, milk chocolate 50 mg/oz
(approximately!)

Clinical signs of chocolate toxicity include:

hyperactivity,
restlessness,
tachycardia,
tachypnea,
hyperreflexia,
hyperthermia within 1-2 hours.

These signs may be accompanied by urinary incontinence, vomiting and
diarrhea, and can progress to muscle fasciculations, twitching, and
terminal tetanic to convulsive seizures.

Standard therapy includes detox with activated charcoal, (every 3-4
hours), gastric emptying (which can be hard to acheive since the
chocolate makes a gooey mess which tends to adhere to the mucosa) and
osmotic cathartics. Emetics are as always contraindicated with
seizures (control seizures with diazepam or short-acting barbituates
first).

Supportive treatment includes promotion of renal excretion via
acidification of urine, treatment of tachycardia with lidocaine (dogs
only) or metoprolol (propanolol can also be used for tachyarrhymias,
but it may slow renal excretion), and IV fluid support.

Kidney Disease in Dogs website: symptoms, diagnosis, treatment,
management (medical and dietary), recipes, breed specific renal
diseases, genetics, current research, bibliography and abstracts
http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/

Canine Renal Disease Website: mirror site of above
http://www.geocities.com/slfleisher.geo/

Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3596/jrd.html

Clinical article on Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/H...nfleisher.html

http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm

Juvenile and familial renal diseases in dogs:
http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm





  #3  
Old October 17th 03, 07:09 AM
Hy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Not sure if this is true, but:
I have heard that onions are toxic for dogs, however, powdered garlic is
good for them (not garlic salt, and not fresh garlic).

  #4  
Old October 17th 03, 12:41 PM
kate
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My golden retriever ate two lbs of xmyth fudge once, nuts and all. She lived
a long time after that with no ill effects. But, I have to say, better safe
than sorry.
And no, I did not give her fudge, she snitched it!
kate


"Hy" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
There is a dog in our area who ate chocolate and is now blind at a
relatively young age, specifically because he ate the chocolate.

Maxie P. Diddly wrote:
"Zsarnok" wrote in message
hlink.net...


Mine love chocolate -- don't yell.



Dogs love most food. That doesn't mean you should give it to them.


I give them an itty bitty
piece and counter it with doggie vits & flax oil. They eat better


than

I do.



Giving your dog chocolate is neither a good thing, nor is it smart.

http://members.fortunecity.com/somal...lineDiseases/C
hocolate.htm

QUESTION: With it being Christmas time, there's a lot of chocolate
around my house, everything from cookies to miniature candy bars. I
know chocolate is bad for dogs, but does anyone know WHY? I'm a
pre-vet student, and I'm curious as to the physiological effects of
chocolate in a dog. What is in it that is harmful, and what does that
ingredient do to the dog? With two dogs in the house, and one being a
puppy that chews or eats everything in sight, this would be useful
information.

--------------------------------------

The dangerous ingredient of chocoloate for dogs is theobromine, which
is a methylxanthine and thus is chemically related to caffeine.
Theobromine takes much longer to be metabolized in dogs, about 17.5
hours, than in humans.

From an article in the chemistry section of about.com, "Theobromine,
caffeine's chocolate cousin"
http://chemistry.about.com/science/c...ekly/aa061900a.
htm

"In humans, theobromine has a ten-fold less stimulating effect than
does caffeine. This is not the case in dogs, whose metabolic machinery
removes theobromine very slowly, and who are therefore vulnerable to
cardiac and central ervous system distress from this alkaloid (and
from caffeine, as well). A toxic dose is estimated as between 100 to
200 milligrams of theobromine per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of a dog's
body weight."

From the Parvets page, "Chocolage - theobromine, further information"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-...rtherinfo.html

"Fatal doses of theobromine for dogs are suggested as ranging from
90-250 mg/kg though some sources report 100-500mg/kg, this suggests
that there is considerable individual variation in what represents a
fatal dose. But deaths have certainly been reported at the lower end
of the range. Also while a dog may survive a higher dose it will
probably have been seriously ill and required significant supportive
care and treatment."

"The LD50 is quoted as 100-300 mg/kg body weight. This is the dose
that will kill 50% of the dogs eating it. 12 mg/kg causes no visible
ill effects."

From the page, "Chocolate Poisoning in Dogs" by Kevin Fitzgerald,
Ph.D., D.V.M. http://www.apogeevideo.com/advice/article1.htm

"Milk chocolate is obtained from seeds of theobroma cacao after
fermentation and roasting. Milk chocolate has about 44 mg/ounce of
theobromine; a 4.5 oz. milk chocolate bar has about 240 mgs. of
theobromine. Unsweetened baking chocolate has even more -- about 390
to 450 mgs of theobromine per ounce."

"Relative theobromine content per ounce for various products is:

Milk chocolate: 44 - 60 mgs/ounce
Unsweetened baking chocolate: 450 mg/oz
Cacao meal: 300 - 900 mg/oz
Cacao beans: 300 - 1200 mg/oz
Hot chocolate: 13 mg/oz"

"The lethal dosage of theobromine in dogs is between 250 and 500
mgs/kg, or about 2/3 to 1 1/3 of baking chocolate for every 2.2 pounds
of body weight. However, serious non-fatal poisonings have been
reported in dogs after eating smaller amounts."

For more information on this: The Straight Dope, "Is chocolate
poisonous to dogs?" http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_211.html

ParkVets, "Chocolate, a sweet death"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-chocolate.html

Veterinary Information Network, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://www.vin.com/mainpub/xmas/chocolate_tox.asp

Janet Crosby, DVM, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://vetmedicine.about.com/health/...weekly/aa02090
0a.htm

I don't have saved info or time right now to search. Choc. can kill a
dog and does. semii-sweet choc is 10 times worse. Get all your
chocolate and immediately put it in your refrigerator. Save your self
some heartache. If you ever have mice, put m&m choc. candies behind
the appliance or a place your pets can't get to. Mice eat them and
dehydrate and it makes them leave the house looking for water - then
they die.

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html Pet First Aid:
Chocolate poisoning in dogs by Dr. Kevin Fitzgerald

http://www.bostonterrierhealth.org/ Boston Terrier Health Site and
Store

Pet Care Tips:

CHOCOLATE IS DANGEROUS FOR PETS

Give chocolate to loved ones, and you could end up poisoning them.
That is, if the loved ones are your pets. Even small amounts of
theobromine, an ingredient in chocolate, can cause vomiting and
restlessness in pets. Larger doses can be fatal. While most pet owners
expect a dog to develop an upset stomach after eating a large amount
of chocolate, few realize its toxic potential.

The lethal dose of theobromine depends on the size of the dog and the
type of chocolate. Ounce for ounce, baking chocolate has six to nine
times as much of the substance as milk chocolate does.

Estimates of the smallest amounts that can be fatal a

4 to 10 ounces of milk chocolate or 1/2 to 1 ounce of baking chocolate
for small dogs, such as Chihuahuas and toy poodles.

1 to 1 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 2 to 3 ounces of baking
chocolate for medium-sized dogs like cocker spaniels and dachshunds.

2 to 4 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 4 to 8 ounces of baking
chocolate for large dogs, including collies and Labrador retrievers.

While a very small amount of chocolate may not harm some dogs, it's
safest to avoid giving it to them at all. If an accident occurs, a
veterinarian should be consulted. Treatment may require inducing
vomiting, stabilizing the animal's heartbeat and respiration,
controlling seizures and slowing the absorption of theobromine. If the
animal already is comatose, its stomach may need to be pumped.

-----------------------------------

Chocolate contains theobromine and caffeine, which are both methylated
alkaloids. Theobromine is the primary toxin. Both of these alkaloids
are easily absorbed orally and widely spread throughout the body
before being metabolized by the liver. Both also undergo renal
excretion, which is more rapid in the presence of acid urine.

One MOTA (method of toxic action) is inhibition of intercellular
calcium sequestration. This results in a lowered threshold of
stimulation for cardiac and skeletal muscle. These toxic alkaloids are
also cAMP receptor antagonists, so there is increased stimulation of
the CNS, vasoconstriction, tachycardia, and stimulation of the sensory
cortex resulting in increased mental alertness.

Dogs are more sensitive than cats, for once! In dogs, the lethal oral
dose is 300 mg/kg; it's 700 mg/kg in cats. Baking chocolate contains
about 400 mg/ounce, dark chocolate 150 mg/oz, milk chocolate 50 mg/oz
(approximately!)

Clinical signs of chocolate toxicity include:

hyperactivity,
restlessness,
tachycardia,
tachypnea,
hyperreflexia,
hyperthermia within 1-2 hours.

These signs may be accompanied by urinary incontinence, vomiting and
diarrhea, and can progress to muscle fasciculations, twitching, and
terminal tetanic to convulsive seizures.

Standard therapy includes detox with activated charcoal, (every 3-4
hours), gastric emptying (which can be hard to acheive since the
chocolate makes a gooey mess which tends to adhere to the mucosa) and
osmotic cathartics. Emetics are as always contraindicated with
seizures (control seizures with diazepam or short-acting barbituates
first).

Supportive treatment includes promotion of renal excretion via
acidification of urine, treatment of tachycardia with lidocaine (dogs
only) or metoprolol (propanolol can also be used for tachyarrhymias,
but it may slow renal excretion), and IV fluid support.

Kidney Disease in Dogs website: symptoms, diagnosis, treatment,
management (medical and dietary), recipes, breed specific renal
diseases, genetics, current research, bibliography and abstracts
http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/

Canine Renal Disease Website: mirror site of above
http://www.geocities.com/slfleisher.geo/

Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3596/jrd.html

Clinical article on Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/H...nfleisher.html

http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm

Juvenile and familial renal diseases in dogs:
http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm







  #5  
Old October 18th 03, 03:58 AM
Hecate100
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Goddess of Groundhogs" wrote in message
...
Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
: at the world.

Thanks Maxie. Some very good information there. I'm glad my dawgz have no
taste for chocolate. Altho, according to the info you posted, it'd take
about 5 pounds to hurt him seriously, it's best that he's never tasted it
and doesn't crave it.


My cat loves the smell of chocolate, but he won't eat it. Anytime I have
some, it gets thoroughly whiskered. A good thing he doesn't take a bite,
though, since my favorite perfume is a chocolate-sandalwood scent!

Love & Laughter,
Nightshade


  #6  
Old October 18th 03, 04:01 AM
Maxie P. Diddly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Hecate100" wrote in message
...

My cat loves the smell of chocolate, but he won't eat it.


I have noticed this about cats as well. I guess this is further proof
that cats are smarter than dogs, eh?


  #7  
Old October 18th 03, 04:22 AM
Hecate100
external usenet poster
 
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"Maxie P. Diddly" wrote in message
...
"Hecate100" wrote in message
...

My cat loves the smell of chocolate, but he won't eat it.


I have noticed this about cats as well. I guess this is further proof
that cats are smarter than dogs, eh?


Hehehehe, perhaps. I think it's that the cat can smell the milkfat, but
after consideration decides that there's not enough in there to be worth the
bother.

Love & Laughter,
Nightshade





  #8  
Old October 18th 03, 06:20 PM
Hope Munro Smith
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In article ,
"Maxie P. Diddly" wrote:

"Hecate100" wrote in message
...

My cat loves the smell of chocolate, but he won't eat it.


I have noticed this about cats as well. I guess this is further proof
that cats are smarter than dogs, eh?



Oh yes, they are TONS smarter!
  #9  
Old October 20th 03, 02:34 AM
Zsarnok
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Posts: n/a
Default

My dogs are over 50lbs and I give them a tiny piece of chocolate, not a
whole bar. I also don't do it every day.

This IS something to be concerned about BUT I think it is exagerrated as
many health concerns today are. I had a dachshund that, while we were
out, ate a 3lb Whitman sampler, minus 6 pieces (3 for us, 2 found in the
couch, and one under it). He moaned for 3 days but was fine. According
to these articles, he should have dropped dead in less than 17.5 hours.

But the caffein connection would explain the concern of cats eating
chocolate, too.

Thanks

Zsarnok

Maxie P. Diddly wrote:

"Zsarnok" wrote in message
hlink.net...


Mine love chocolate -- don't yell.



Dogs love most food. That doesn't mean you should give it to them.


I give them an itty bitty
piece and counter it with doggie vits & flax oil. They eat better


than

I do.



Giving your dog chocolate is neither a good thing, nor is it smart.

http://members.fortunecity.com/somal...lineDiseases/C
hocolate.htm

QUESTION: With it being Christmas time, there's a lot of chocolate
around my house, everything from cookies to miniature candy bars. I
know chocolate is bad for dogs, but does anyone know WHY? I'm a
pre-vet student, and I'm curious as to the physiological effects of
chocolate in a dog. What is in it that is harmful, and what does that
ingredient do to the dog? With two dogs in the house, and one being a
puppy that chews or eats everything in sight, this would be useful
information.

--------------------------------------

The dangerous ingredient of chocoloate for dogs is theobromine, which
is a methylxanthine and thus is chemically related to caffeine.
Theobromine takes much longer to be metabolized in dogs, about 17.5
hours, than in humans.

From an article in the chemistry section of about.com, "Theobromine,
caffeine's chocolate cousin"
http://chemistry.about.com/science/c...ekly/aa061900a.
htm

"In humans, theobromine has a ten-fold less stimulating effect than
does caffeine. This is not the case in dogs, whose metabolic machinery
removes theobromine very slowly, and who are therefore vulnerable to
cardiac and central ervous system distress from this alkaloid (and
from caffeine, as well). A toxic dose is estimated as between 100 to
200 milligrams of theobromine per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of a dog's
body weight."

From the Parvets page, "Chocolage - theobromine, further information"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-...rtherinfo.html

"Fatal doses of theobromine for dogs are suggested as ranging from
90-250 mg/kg though some sources report 100-500mg/kg, this suggests
that there is considerable individual variation in what represents a
fatal dose. But deaths have certainly been reported at the lower end
of the range. Also while a dog may survive a higher dose it will
probably have been seriously ill and required significant supportive
care and treatment."

"The LD50 is quoted as 100-300 mg/kg body weight. This is the dose
that will kill 50% of the dogs eating it. 12 mg/kg causes no visible
ill effects."

From the page, "Chocolate Poisoning in Dogs" by Kevin Fitzgerald,
Ph.D., D.V.M. http://www.apogeevideo.com/advice/article1.htm

"Milk chocolate is obtained from seeds of theobroma cacao after
fermentation and roasting. Milk chocolate has about 44 mg/ounce of
theobromine; a 4.5 oz. milk chocolate bar has about 240 mgs. of
theobromine. Unsweetened baking chocolate has even more -- about 390
to 450 mgs of theobromine per ounce."

"Relative theobromine content per ounce for various products is:

Milk chocolate: 44 - 60 mgs/ounce
Unsweetened baking chocolate: 450 mg/oz
Cacao meal: 300 - 900 mg/oz
Cacao beans: 300 - 1200 mg/oz
Hot chocolate: 13 mg/oz"

"The lethal dosage of theobromine in dogs is between 250 and 500
mgs/kg, or about 2/3 to 1 1/3 of baking chocolate for every 2.2 pounds
of body weight. However, serious non-fatal poisonings have been
reported in dogs after eating smaller amounts."

For more information on this: The Straight Dope, "Is chocolate
poisonous to dogs?" http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_211.html

ParkVets, "Chocolate, a sweet death"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-chocolate.html

Veterinary Information Network, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://www.vin.com/mainpub/xmas/chocolate_tox.asp

Janet Crosby, DVM, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://vetmedicine.about.com/health/...weekly/aa02090
0a.htm

I don't have saved info or time right now to search. Choc. can kill a
dog and does. semii-sweet choc is 10 times worse. Get all your
chocolate and immediately put it in your refrigerator. Save your self
some heartache. If you ever have mice, put m&m choc. candies behind
the appliance or a place your pets can't get to. Mice eat them and
dehydrate and it makes them leave the house looking for water - then
they die.

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html Pet First Aid:
Chocolate poisoning in dogs by Dr. Kevin Fitzgerald

http://www.bostonterrierhealth.org/ Boston Terrier Health Site and
Store

Pet Care Tips:

CHOCOLATE IS DANGEROUS FOR PETS

Give chocolate to loved ones, and you could end up poisoning them.
That is, if the loved ones are your pets. Even small amounts of
theobromine, an ingredient in chocolate, can cause vomiting and
restlessness in pets. Larger doses can be fatal. While most pet owners
expect a dog to develop an upset stomach after eating a large amount
of chocolate, few realize its toxic potential.

The lethal dose of theobromine depends on the size of the dog and the
type of chocolate. Ounce for ounce, baking chocolate has six to nine
times as much of the substance as milk chocolate does.

Estimates of the smallest amounts that can be fatal a

4 to 10 ounces of milk chocolate or 1/2 to 1 ounce of baking chocolate
for small dogs, such as Chihuahuas and toy poodles.

1 to 1 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 2 to 3 ounces of baking
chocolate for medium-sized dogs like cocker spaniels and dachshunds.

2 to 4 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 4 to 8 ounces of baking
chocolate for large dogs, including collies and Labrador retrievers.

While a very small amount of chocolate may not harm some dogs, it's
safest to avoid giving it to them at all. If an accident occurs, a
veterinarian should be consulted. Treatment may require inducing
vomiting, stabilizing the animal's heartbeat and respiration,
controlling seizures and slowing the absorption of theobromine. If the
animal already is comatose, its stomach may need to be pumped.

-----------------------------------

Chocolate contains theobromine and caffeine, which are both methylated
alkaloids. Theobromine is the primary toxin. Both of these alkaloids
are easily absorbed orally and widely spread throughout the body
before being metabolized by the liver. Both also undergo renal
excretion, which is more rapid in the presence of acid urine.

One MOTA (method of toxic action) is inhibition of intercellular
calcium sequestration. This results in a lowered threshold of
stimulation for cardiac and skeletal muscle. These toxic alkaloids are
also cAMP receptor antagonists, so there is increased stimulation of
the CNS, vasoconstriction, tachycardia, and stimulation of the sensory
cortex resulting in increased mental alertness.

Dogs are more sensitive than cats, for once! In dogs, the lethal oral
dose is 300 mg/kg; it's 700 mg/kg in cats. Baking chocolate contains
about 400 mg/ounce, dark chocolate 150 mg/oz, milk chocolate 50 mg/oz
(approximately!)

Clinical signs of chocolate toxicity include:

hyperactivity,
restlessness,
tachycardia,
tachypnea,
hyperreflexia,
hyperthermia within 1-2 hours.

These signs may be accompanied by urinary incontinence, vomiting and
diarrhea, and can progress to muscle fasciculations, twitching, and
terminal tetanic to convulsive seizures.

Standard therapy includes detox with activated charcoal, (every 3-4
hours), gastric emptying (which can be hard to acheive since the
chocolate makes a gooey mess which tends to adhere to the mucosa) and
osmotic cathartics. Emetics are as always contraindicated with
seizures (control seizures with diazepam or short-acting barbituates
first).

Supportive treatment includes promotion of renal excretion via
acidification of urine, treatment of tachycardia with lidocaine (dogs
only) or metoprolol (propanolol can also be used for tachyarrhymias,
but it may slow renal excretion), and IV fluid support.

Kidney Disease in Dogs website: symptoms, diagnosis, treatment,
management (medical and dietary), recipes, breed specific renal
diseases, genetics, current research, bibliography and abstracts
http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/

Canine Renal Disease Website: mirror site of above
http://www.geocities.com/slfleisher.geo/

Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3596/jrd.html

Clinical article on Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/H...nfleisher.html

http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm

Juvenile and familial renal diseases in dogs:
http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm





  #10  
Old October 20th 03, 02:35 AM
Zsarnok
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your golden must have known my dachshund.

Zsarnok

kate wrote:

My golden retriever ate two lbs of xmyth fudge once, nuts and all. She lived
a long time after that with no ill effects. But, I have to say, better safe
than sorry.
And no, I did not give her fudge, she snitched it!
kate


"Hy" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

There is a dog in our area who ate chocolate and is now blind at a
relatively young age, specifically because he ate the chocolate.

Maxie P. Diddly wrote:

"Zsarnok" wrote in message
arthlink.net...



Mine love chocolate -- don't yell.


Dogs love most food. That doesn't mean you should give it to them.



I give them an itty bitty
piece and counter it with doggie vits & flax oil. They eat better

than


I do.


Giving your dog chocolate is neither a good thing, nor is it smart.

http://members.fortunecity.com/somal...lineDiseases/C
hocolate.htm

QUESTION: With it being Christmas time, there's a lot of chocolate
around my house, everything from cookies to miniature candy bars. I
know chocolate is bad for dogs, but does anyone know WHY? I'm a
pre-vet student, and I'm curious as to the physiological effects of
chocolate in a dog. What is in it that is harmful, and what does that
ingredient do to the dog? With two dogs in the house, and one being a
puppy that chews or eats everything in sight, this would be useful
information.

--------------------------------------

The dangerous ingredient of chocoloate for dogs is theobromine, which
is a methylxanthine and thus is chemically related to caffeine.
Theobromine takes much longer to be metabolized in dogs, about 17.5
hours, than in humans.

From an article in the chemistry section of about.com, "Theobromine,
caffeine's chocolate cousin"
http://chemistry.about.com/science/c...ekly/aa061900a.
htm

"In humans, theobromine has a ten-fold less stimulating effect than
does caffeine. This is not the case in dogs, whose metabolic machinery
removes theobromine very slowly, and who are therefore vulnerable to
cardiac and central ervous system distress from this alkaloid (and
from caffeine, as well). A toxic dose is estimated as between 100 to
200 milligrams of theobromine per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of a dog's
body weight."

From the Parvets page, "Chocolage - theobromine, further information"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-...rtherinfo.html

"Fatal doses of theobromine for dogs are suggested as ranging from
90-250 mg/kg though some sources report 100-500mg/kg, this suggests
that there is considerable individual variation in what represents a
fatal dose. But deaths have certainly been reported at the lower end
of the range. Also while a dog may survive a higher dose it will
probably have been seriously ill and required significant supportive
care and treatment."

"The LD50 is quoted as 100-300 mg/kg body weight. This is the dose
that will kill 50% of the dogs eating it. 12 mg/kg causes no visible
ill effects."

From the page, "Chocolate Poisoning in Dogs" by Kevin Fitzgerald,
Ph.D., D.V.M. http://www.apogeevideo.com/advice/article1.htm

"Milk chocolate is obtained from seeds of theobroma cacao after
fermentation and roasting. Milk chocolate has about 44 mg/ounce of
theobromine; a 4.5 oz. milk chocolate bar has about 240 mgs. of
theobromine. Unsweetened baking chocolate has even more -- about 390
to 450 mgs of theobromine per ounce."

"Relative theobromine content per ounce for various products is:

Milk chocolate: 44 - 60 mgs/ounce
Unsweetened baking chocolate: 450 mg/oz
Cacao meal: 300 - 900 mg/oz
Cacao beans: 300 - 1200 mg/oz
Hot chocolate: 13 mg/oz"

"The lethal dosage of theobromine in dogs is between 250 and 500
mgs/kg, or about 2/3 to 1 1/3 of baking chocolate for every 2.2 pounds
of body weight. However, serious non-fatal poisonings have been
reported in dogs after eating smaller amounts."

For more information on this: The Straight Dope, "Is chocolate
poisonous to dogs?" http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_211.html

ParkVets, "Chocolate, a sweet death"
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-chocolate.html

Veterinary Information Network, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://www.vin.com/mainpub/xmas/chocolate_tox.asp

Janet Crosby, DVM, "Chocolate toxicity"
http://vetmedicine.about.com/health/...weekly/aa02090
0a.htm

I don't have saved info or time right now to search. Choc. can kill a
dog and does. semii-sweet choc is 10 times worse. Get all your
chocolate and immediately put it in your refrigerator. Save your self
some heartache. If you ever have mice, put m&m choc. candies behind
the appliance or a place your pets can't get to. Mice eat them and
dehydrate and it makes them leave the house looking for water - then
they die.

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html

http://www.firstaidforpets.com/drkevin/chocolate.html Pet First Aid:
Chocolate poisoning in dogs by Dr. Kevin Fitzgerald

http://www.bostonterrierhealth.org/ Boston Terrier Health Site and
Store

Pet Care Tips:

CHOCOLATE IS DANGEROUS FOR PETS

Give chocolate to loved ones, and you could end up poisoning them.
That is, if the loved ones are your pets. Even small amounts of
theobromine, an ingredient in chocolate, can cause vomiting and
restlessness in pets. Larger doses can be fatal. While most pet owners
expect a dog to develop an upset stomach after eating a large amount
of chocolate, few realize its toxic potential.

The lethal dose of theobromine depends on the size of the dog and the
type of chocolate. Ounce for ounce, baking chocolate has six to nine
times as much of the substance as milk chocolate does.

Estimates of the smallest amounts that can be fatal a

4 to 10 ounces of milk chocolate or 1/2 to 1 ounce of baking chocolate
for small dogs, such as Chihuahuas and toy poodles.

1 to 1 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 2 to 3 ounces of baking
chocolate for medium-sized dogs like cocker spaniels and dachshunds.

2 to 4 1/2 pounds of milk chocolate or 4 to 8 ounces of baking
chocolate for large dogs, including collies and Labrador retrievers.

While a very small amount of chocolate may not harm some dogs, it's
safest to avoid giving it to them at all. If an accident occurs, a
veterinarian should be consulted. Treatment may require inducing
vomiting, stabilizing the animal's heartbeat and respiration,
controlling seizures and slowing the absorption of theobromine. If the
animal already is comatose, its stomach may need to be pumped.

-----------------------------------

Chocolate contains theobromine and caffeine, which are both methylated
alkaloids. Theobromine is the primary toxin. Both of these alkaloids
are easily absorbed orally and widely spread throughout the body
before being metabolized by the liver. Both also undergo renal
excretion, which is more rapid in the presence of acid urine.

One MOTA (method of toxic action) is inhibition of intercellular
calcium sequestration. This results in a lowered threshold of
stimulation for cardiac and skeletal muscle. These toxic alkaloids are
also cAMP receptor antagonists, so there is increased stimulation of
the CNS, vasoconstriction, tachycardia, and stimulation of the sensory
cortex resulting in increased mental alertness.

Dogs are more sensitive than cats, for once! In dogs, the lethal oral
dose is 300 mg/kg; it's 700 mg/kg in cats. Baking chocolate contains
about 400 mg/ounce, dark chocolate 150 mg/oz, milk chocolate 50 mg/oz
(approximately!)

Clinical signs of chocolate toxicity include:

hyperactivity,
restlessness,
tachycardia,
tachypnea,
hyperreflexia,
hyperthermia within 1-2 hours.

These signs may be accompanied by urinary incontinence, vomiting and
diarrhea, and can progress to muscle fasciculations, twitching, and
terminal tetanic to convulsive seizures.

Standard therapy includes detox with activated charcoal, (every 3-4
hours), gastric emptying (which can be hard to acheive since the
chocolate makes a gooey mess which tends to adhere to the mucosa) and
osmotic cathartics. Emetics are as always contraindicated with
seizures (control seizures with diazepam or short-acting barbituates
first).

Supportive treatment includes promotion of renal excretion via
acidification of urine, treatment of tachycardia with lidocaine (dogs
only) or metoprolol (propanolol can also be used for tachyarrhymias,
but it may slow renal excretion), and IV fluid support.

Kidney Disease in Dogs website: symptoms, diagnosis, treatment,
management (medical and dietary), recipes, breed specific renal
diseases, genetics, current research, bibliography and abstracts
http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/

Canine Renal Disease Website: mirror site of above
http://www.geocities.com/slfleisher.geo/

Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3596/jrd.html

Clinical article on Juvenile Renal Disease (JRD) in Standard Poodles:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/H...nfleisher.html

http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm

Juvenile and familial renal diseases in dogs:
http://www.blarg.net/~jeffp/client-info.htm








 




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