Posting this for a friend. The vet is scratching his head at this
time. Any thoughts as to what this might be or what to look for? [my
comments added]

Thanks,
Dave

===
Here's the story with Buster and his unusual liver.

Buster is a 6-1/2 year old mix. We think he is part husky, lab and
shepard. His health has always been good except for a few extra pounds
that we've been working on getting rid of. He drinks a ton of water and
we have given him unfiltered water from the park bubbler [water fountain
for you non-Wisconsinites] on walks. The water in this area seems to
have a high iron content. [The park water. They have an iron filter at
home.] We have also given him on a regular basis about 1/6 serving of
braunshweiger [sausage]. Since discovering this problem we have
discontinued both the unfiltered water and the braunshweiger.

Approximately 8 weeks ago Buster had an episode which came on very
rapidly (he was OK at 7 PM and not by 10:30 PM) where he was either so
lethargic that he couldn't walk or something was wrong with his legs
such that he
couldn't walk. He would only get up if we coaxed him and only if we
helped. He did not look sick otherwise. By the next morning he was
slightly better but still hesitated walking. Although he ate breakfast
and drank water and went outside to go to the bathroom. Since this was
Sunday we decided to call the vet the next day if there was no
improvement. By Monday morning he was perfectly fine - running, playing,
chasing squirrels. So we didn't talk to the vet until a couple weeks
later when he had a scheduled appointment.

Although the doctor first thought it may be a bleeding spleen tumor,
they ruled that out with ultrasound.

He had an ultrasound, x-ray, blood work, bile acid test and laparoscopy
to take pictures of the liver and a biopsy. The spleen looked fine and
the blood work was normal. The liver is smaller than normal and showed
up with
an unusual (bright) contrast on the US. The pictures taken during the
laparoscopy showed fat attached to the liver which was unusual and the
liver had a mottled appearance. It is suppose to look like cow's liver
and did
not.

The biopsy results came back that it is not cancer. The liver tissue
showed inflammation and had a toxic level of iron. Buster's level is
2800 mg/g [mg/Kg] and a level of 500-1000 mg/g [mg/Kg] is considered
high. They ruled out a storage disease because the iron is in the tissue
but not the cells. They called it extra hepatic.

We cannot think of any episode where Buster ingested anything with a
high iron content (i.e. like iron supplements). The vet investigate
possible methods of removing the iron with medication but found that it
is an
intravenous process and is typically used on an acutely ill animal right
after the ingestion of the toxin. At this point they were contacting a
liver expert from Cornell University and I haven't been able to connect
with the doctor to get an update.

"DaveL" wrote in message
...
The liver is smaller than normal and showed
up with
an unusual (bright) contrast on the US.

..........this is called hyperechoic and can be used for a search term.

The pictures taken during the
laparoscopy showed fat attached to the liver which was unusual and the
liver had a mottled appearance

......Hmmmmmmm. There's a clue here - keep thinking about thyroid, but
wonder what the Vit E status of the dog is. What does dog eat on a day to
day basis?

The liver tissue
showed inflammation and had a toxic level of iron. Buster's level is
2800 mg/g [mg/Kg] and a level of 500-1000 mg/g [mg/Kg] is considered
high. They ruled out a storage disease because the iron is in the tissue
but not the cells. They called it extra hepatic.

...........So the excess iron is not in the hepatocytes?

We cannot think of any episode where Buster ingested anything with a
high iron content (i.e. like iron supplements). The vet investigate
possible methods of removing the iron with medication but found that it
is an
intravenous process and is typically used on an acutely ill animal right
after the ingestion of the toxin. At this point they were contacting a
liver expert from Cornell University and I haven't been able to connect
with the doctor to get an update.

http://web2.airmail.net/uthman/lab_test.html
Serum iron may be increased in hemolytic, megaloblastic, and aplastic
anemias, and in hemochromatosis, acute leukemia, lead poisoning, pyridoxine
deficiency, thalassemia, excessive iron therapy, and after repeated
transfusions. Drugs causing increased serum iron include chloramphenicol,
cisplatin, estrogens (including oral contraceptives), ethanol, iron dextran,
and methotrexate


.......Hmmmm, the use of medical leeches popped into my head. I think I
remember reading something about it and removal of iron from the system.
After all RBCs have lots of iron in them.

http://www.geocities.com/leechlady5/index.html
http://www.ralphmag.org/maggots.html
http://www.csu.edu.au/learning/ncgr/...emo/phleb.html

An interesting read on the relationship of iron, copper and zinc:
http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

Iron chelation with IP6:
http://www.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm
Iron chelators:
http://sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/chelators.html

........gotta get the dogs out for a walk so am out of time. Other avenues
to explore which popped up are liver parasites, wondering about Cushings,
hepatitis, though from a brief glance none really fit. I'd cruise around
the Vet Merck Manual a bit:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...vm_bkindex.htm

......Other questions to consider - what vaccinations has dog had? Is dog
from WI area or did he come from somewhere else?

buglady
take out the dog before replying

"DaveL" wrote in message
...
The liver is smaller than normal and showed
up with
an unusual (bright) contrast on the US.

..........this is called hyperechoic and can be used for a search term.

The pictures taken during the
laparoscopy showed fat attached to the liver which was unusual and the
liver had a mottled appearance

......Hmmmmmmm. There's a clue here - keep thinking about thyroid, but
wonder what the Vit E status of the dog is. What does dog eat on a day to
day basis?

The liver tissue
showed inflammation and had a toxic level of iron. Buster's level is
2800 mg/g [mg/Kg] and a level of 500-1000 mg/g [mg/Kg] is considered
high. They ruled out a storage disease because the iron is in the tissue
but not the cells. They called it extra hepatic.

...........So the excess iron is not in the hepatocytes?

We cannot think of any episode where Buster ingested anything with a
high iron content (i.e. like iron supplements). The vet investigate
possible methods of removing the iron with medication but found that it
is an
intravenous process and is typically used on an acutely ill animal right
after the ingestion of the toxin. At this point they were contacting a
liver expert from Cornell University and I haven't been able to connect
with the doctor to get an update.

http://web2.airmail.net/uthman/lab_test.html
Serum iron may be increased in hemolytic, megaloblastic, and aplastic
anemias, and in hemochromatosis, acute leukemia, lead poisoning, pyridoxine
deficiency, thalassemia, excessive iron therapy, and after repeated
transfusions. Drugs causing increased serum iron include chloramphenicol,
cisplatin, estrogens (including oral contraceptives), ethanol, iron dextran,
and methotrexate


.......Hmmmm, the use of medical leeches popped into my head. I think I
remember reading something about it and removal of iron from the system.
After all RBCs have lots of iron in them.

http://www.geocities.com/leechlady5/index.html
http://www.ralphmag.org/maggots.html
http://www.csu.edu.au/learning/ncgr/...emo/phleb.html

An interesting read on the relationship of iron, copper and zinc:
http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

Iron chelation with IP6:
http://www.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm
Iron chelators:
http://sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/chelators.html

........gotta get the dogs out for a walk so am out of time. Other avenues
to explore which popped up are liver parasites, wondering about Cushings,
hepatitis, though from a brief glance none really fit. I'd cruise around
the Vet Merck Manual a bit:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...vm_bkindex.htm

......Other questions to consider - what vaccinations has dog had? Is dog
from WI area or did he come from somewhere else?

buglady
take out the dog before replying

DaveL wrote in message ...
Posting this for a friend. The vet is scratching his head at this
time. Any thoughts as to what this might be or what to look for? [my
comments added]

Thanks,
Dave

Any chance this dog was eating Go!Natural pet food?

DaveL wrote in message ...
Posting this for a friend. The vet is scratching his head at this
time. Any thoughts as to what this might be or what to look for? [my
comments added]

Thanks,
Dave

Any chance this dog was eating Go!Natural pet food?

Steve Crane wrote:

DaveL wrote in message ...
Posting this for a friend. The vet is scratching his head at this
time. Any thoughts as to what this might be or what to look for? [my
comments added]

Thanks,
Dave

Any chance this dog was eating Go!Natural pet food?

Don't know, but I'll find out....

thanks

Steve Crane wrote:

DaveL wrote in message ...
Posting this for a friend. The vet is scratching his head at this
time. Any thoughts as to what this might be or what to look for? [my
comments added]

Thanks,
Dave

Any chance this dog was eating Go!Natural pet food?

Don't know, but I'll find out....

thanks

Steve Crane wrote:

DaveL wrote in message ...
Posting this for a friend. The vet is scratching his head at this
time. Any thoughts as to what this might be or what to look for? [my
comments added]

Thanks,
Dave

Any chance this dog was eating Go!Natural pet food?

No, I understand NutraMax.

Steve Crane wrote:

DaveL wrote in message ...
Posting this for a friend. The vet is scratching his head at this
time. Any thoughts as to what this might be or what to look for? [my
comments added]

Thanks,
Dave

Any chance this dog was eating Go!Natural pet food?

No, I understand NutraMax.