I'm trying to come up with more possibilities as to why our dog is
having incontince problems.

She is a sheltie, approx 11 years old. We got her 5 years ago, and she
has had several bladder infections over the years. Previously, they
have all cleared up with meds.

This time is different. It has been going on for over a month, and she
is currently on her third medication. The bloodwork came back fine. At
home, we have never seen any blood in the urine, but there was a
little in the sample she left on the vet's table. X-rays didn't show
anything, but I have heard that stones can be hard to see sometimes.
The vet felt for stones and doesn't feel she has any.

We are really puzzle by this. She will go outside and strain several
times without producing anything. Then less than an hour later, she
will have 2 or 3 accidents in the house.

My mom is really worried that she will have to put her dog down since
she is ibviously uncomfortable and straining, and we have no solution.
But, oterwise, she seems happy and healthy. Running and playing.

Any ideas what else we can look for? We just started the 3rd
medication today, so hopefully it will show an improvement soon, but
she two more accidents tonight, less than 20 minutes after going
outside.

The vet seems to be at a loss for what else it is.



Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

In article writes:
I'm trying to come up with more possibilities as to why our dog is
having incontince problems.

She is a sheltie, approx 11 years old. We got her 5 years ago, and she
has had several bladder infections over the years. Previously, they
have all cleared up with meds.

This time is different. It has been going on for over a month, and she
is currently on her third medication. The bloodwork came back fine. At
home, we have never seen any blood in the urine, but there was a
little in the sample she left on the vet's table. X-rays didn't show
anything, but I have heard that stones can be hard to see sometimes.
The vet felt for stones and doesn't feel she has any.

How about a sonogram? Cost--about $250. :-(

--Marshall

In article writes:
I'm trying to come up with more possibilities as to why our dog is
having incontince problems.

She is a sheltie, approx 11 years old. We got her 5 years ago, and she
has had several bladder infections over the years. Previously, they
have all cleared up with meds.

This time is different. It has been going on for over a month, and she
is currently on her third medication. The bloodwork came back fine. At
home, we have never seen any blood in the urine, but there was a
little in the sample she left on the vet's table. X-rays didn't show
anything, but I have heard that stones can be hard to see sometimes.
The vet felt for stones and doesn't feel she has any.

How about a sonogram? Cost--about $250. :-(

--Marshall

I'm not a vet, nor do I play one on usenet! But here's a long shot idea.
What is the treatment for stones, and would it be at all harmful if used
for a dog who doesn't have stones?

I've never had this problem with a dog, but it's not that uncommon in
cats and I've had two that had bladder stones. For cats, the first
treatment is I belive a urine acidifier. It was very clear with our cats
what the problem was, but it occurs to me that if the first line of
treatement is something very harmless, something that won't make the
condition worse if it's not bladder stones... perhaps a trial run
wouldn't be out of order.

Just a thought from left field.
-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

I'm not a vet, nor do I play one on usenet! But here's a long shot idea.
What is the treatment for stones, and would it be at all harmful if used
for a dog who doesn't have stones?

I've never had this problem with a dog, but it's not that uncommon in
cats and I've had two that had bladder stones. For cats, the first
treatment is I belive a urine acidifier. It was very clear with our cats
what the problem was, but it occurs to me that if the first line of
treatement is something very harmless, something that won't make the
condition worse if it's not bladder stones... perhaps a trial run
wouldn't be out of order.

Just a thought from left field.
-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

A simple abdominal x-ray will often diagnose stones that have calcium in
them. Sometimes it takes more than one or two tries with different
antibiotics t hit the infection. In humans we go right to urine
cultures, but it's expensive for pets.... and so many vets don't
automatically do a culture, especially if the lab they use for such
things are at some distance.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

A simple abdominal x-ray will often diagnose stones that have calcium in
them. Sometimes it takes more than one or two tries with different
antibiotics t hit the infection. In humans we go right to urine
cultures, but it's expensive for pets.... and so many vets don't
automatically do a culture, especially if the lab they use for such
things are at some distance.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
...
After I learned that, I encouarged her to get the xray, and she did so
today. The dog has a tumor. Its exact size and location are unknown.
Apparently, that area on the xray was very dark.

.......Hmmmmm, wonder if this was a decent X-ray? The vet has no hypothesis
about what the *dark* are is? How can he be sure it's a tumor if he doesn't
know the size? Personally I would want the answers to these questions.

We are still unsure of what to do. The vet said the only thing to do
is sugery for a biopsy.
.......If the dog is opened up, the only sensible thing to do is to remove
the tumor, not just biopsy it.

Very expensive, and doesn't actually solve the
problem. This dog is at least 11, and if she has cancer, then is it
really worth it to put her through the treatment?

........That's really up to your folks. Depends on what kind of tumor it is
and whether or not it has metastisized. An X-ray of the chest can at least
tell you if there are mets in the lungs.

If she has cancer, wouldn't the blood tests show it? The vet didn't
see anything wrong in her bloodwork.

........No, unfortunately dogs with cancer can have completely normal
bloodwork.

Are there any treatments to shrink a tumor? I know that in people,
they will often use medication to shrink a tumor before surgery, or to
shrink noncancerous cysts.

........Sometimes dogs are given chemotherapy, but I doubt if they'd do that
since they don't know what kind of tumor it is or where it is. Some cancers
do not respond well to chemo. Radiation may be a possibility, but more
information is needed. Getting second hand info from your parents may be
clouding the picture. If they really want to act on this or at least
explore options, I'd get a second opinion with an oncologist. They might
try Essiac, an herbal mixture, if they want to do something that is not
surgery.

She seems to eat just fine, and her poop looks normal.

My mother was considering putting her down on Wednesday since nothing
seemed to be working. Now that she has the diagnosis, she is sure that
she should be put down (tumor usually means cancer), but she wants to
wait a little.

.. She still plays and moves fine. She just doesn't seem to
ready to go just yet.

..........Just because you have a tentative diagnosis of cancer is no reason
to put the dog down. Some people do this to spare themselves the pain of
watching their pets decline. But neither you do you have to wait until they
are absolutely miserable to euthanize. If this oldster is still eating and
playing, she's not ready to go. She'll let you know when it is time. When
she no longer enjoys her food and has lost her interest in life, it is time.
I'm sorry your folks and pup have to face this. It is always sad to face
the departure of our aged pets as they have become so integral to our lives.
They should talk to the vet about things they could do to make her life more
comfortable.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
...
After I learned that, I encouarged her to get the xray, and she did so
today. The dog has a tumor. Its exact size and location are unknown.
Apparently, that area on the xray was very dark.

.......Hmmmmm, wonder if this was a decent X-ray? The vet has no hypothesis
about what the *dark* are is? How can he be sure it's a tumor if he doesn't
know the size? Personally I would want the answers to these questions.

We are still unsure of what to do. The vet said the only thing to do
is sugery for a biopsy.
.......If the dog is opened up, the only sensible thing to do is to remove
the tumor, not just biopsy it.

Very expensive, and doesn't actually solve the
problem. This dog is at least 11, and if she has cancer, then is it
really worth it to put her through the treatment?

........That's really up to your folks. Depends on what kind of tumor it is
and whether or not it has metastisized. An X-ray of the chest can at least
tell you if there are mets in the lungs.

If she has cancer, wouldn't the blood tests show it? The vet didn't
see anything wrong in her bloodwork.

........No, unfortunately dogs with cancer can have completely normal
bloodwork.

Are there any treatments to shrink a tumor? I know that in people,
they will often use medication to shrink a tumor before surgery, or to
shrink noncancerous cysts.

........Sometimes dogs are given chemotherapy, but I doubt if they'd do that
since they don't know what kind of tumor it is or where it is. Some cancers
do not respond well to chemo. Radiation may be a possibility, but more
information is needed. Getting second hand info from your parents may be
clouding the picture. If they really want to act on this or at least
explore options, I'd get a second opinion with an oncologist. They might
try Essiac, an herbal mixture, if they want to do something that is not
surgery.

She seems to eat just fine, and her poop looks normal.

My mother was considering putting her down on Wednesday since nothing
seemed to be working. Now that she has the diagnosis, she is sure that
she should be put down (tumor usually means cancer), but she wants to
wait a little.

.. She still plays and moves fine. She just doesn't seem to
ready to go just yet.

..........Just because you have a tentative diagnosis of cancer is no reason
to put the dog down. Some people do this to spare themselves the pain of
watching their pets decline. But neither you do you have to wait until they
are absolutely miserable to euthanize. If this oldster is still eating and
playing, she's not ready to go. She'll let you know when it is time. When
she no longer enjoys her food and has lost her interest in life, it is time.
I'm sorry your folks and pup have to face this. It is always sad to face
the departure of our aged pets as they have become so integral to our lives.
They should talk to the vet about things they could do to make her life more
comfortable.

buglady
take out the dog before replying