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AKC DNA SCAM



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 23rd 04, 01:16 PM
besmearrocks
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Default AKC DNA SCAM

Why would the AKC make you DNA the sire and not a dam??
Without the dam being DNA'ed you could use a non AKC dog and still
register puppies. Just say they are the AKC's Dam's litter. I know
that this is done out there. It is so easy to paper a non AKC dam AKC.
Its all in who you know so, how can you all not think that AKC is a
pile of crap too?
For AKC not to be a scam registery they need to DNA both sire and dam.
That is my 2 cents for today.....Darrel

  #2  
Old December 23rd 04, 09:52 PM
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On 23 Dec 2004 04:16:35 -0800 besmearrocks whittled these words:
Why would the AKC make you DNA the sire and not a dam??


Because it is obvious who the mother of a puppy is as it comes out the
birth canal. That requirement does not apply to every sire, just those
deemed "frequently used." Which means more than half a dozen times.

Without the dam being DNA'ed you could use a non AKC dog and still
register puppies.


Anyone who believes the parentage of a puppy has been misrepresented can
challenge it, and provided they are willing to pay if they are wrong,
require a DNA test to prove parentage.

There are many ways a breeder could be fraudulent if they choose. DNA
testing won't stop a breeder from being dishonest, it just makes
dishonesty easier to detect.

Just say they are the AKC's Dam's litter. I know
that this is done out there. It is so easy to paper a non AKC dam AKC.
Its all in who you know so, how can you all not think that AKC is a
pile of crap too?


I believe that AKC could do more, but I'm pleased that the steps they have
taken to make it even one bit easier to detect fraud has sent bad breeders
scurrying off to registries that don't even try that hard.

For AKC not to be a scam registery they need to DNA both sire and dam.
That is my 2 cents for today.....Darrel


They aren't perfect, but they are a darned site better than registries
that don't care what is in the pedigree. Some registries, e.g.
Continental Kennel Club, will allow registrations without any information
at all on what is in the pedigree.

A little less hyperboyle and a little more factual consideration might
help you analyze the situation more realistically.

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/
  #3  
Old December 23rd 04, 09:53 PM
Christy
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Default


"besmearrocks" wrote in message
oups.com...
Why would the AKC make you DNA the sire and not a dam??


The DNA requirement is only for certain dogs. I believe it is 7 litters, or
more than 3 in a year. Bitches rarely have those quantity of litters.
However, many do believe DNA testing of bitches is in the works.

Without the dam being DNA'ed you could use a non AKC dog and still
register puppies. Just say they are the AKC's Dam's litter. I know
that this is done out there. It is so easy to paper a non AKC dam AKC.


Well, cheating and lying is only easy for cheaters and liars. Anyone with
those kind of ethics probably won't bother with the AKC anyway, since there
are so many paper mills offering to register anything inexpensively.

Its all in who you know so, how can you all not think that AKC is a
pile of crap too?


Because it isn't - how can the registry be responsible if some users are
unethical? If a used car salesman rolls back the odometer and sells you a
car with 100,000 miles as having 40,000 miles, does that mean the DMV is a
pile of crap??

For AKC not to be a scam registery they need to DNA both sire and dam.
That is my 2 cents for today.....Darrel


It wasn't worth the money, Darrel.


Christy


  #4  
Old December 24th 04, 04:40 AM
Emily Carroll/Fluttervale
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"besmearrocks" wrote in message
oups.com...
Why would the AKC make you DNA the sire and not a dam??


Because most studs produce more puppies than most bitches.

Without the dam being DNA'ed you could use a non AKC dog and still
register puppies. Just say they are the AKC's Dam's litter.


You can do it with the stud, too. Just this way the AKC has his DNA profile
so if a question comes up after the stud has disappeared (died, been sold
overseas, etc.) they still have the stud's DNA. They don't test all puppies
produced against the DNA profile, it is only there if there is a question of
parentage. Bitches are not (yet) required to be DNA profiled, as it would
not be as much of a shock to the gene pool if all of a bitch's offspring
were removed from the studbook--but consider a stud that produces 2 litters
a week thoughout his peak (generally 2-4 years), that's thousands of
puppies. They'd rather have to test them all then remove them all from the
studbook.

I know
that this is done out there. It is so easy to paper a non AKC dam AKC.


Well it's easy enough to add another dog to any given litter registration,
it's all on the honor system.

Its all in who you know so, how can you all not think that AKC is a
pile of crap too?


Because they're the only major registry in the United States to require ANY
DNA profiles whatsoever.



--
Emily Carroll
http://www.fluttervale.com/kennel - Fluttervale Labradors
http://www.fluttervale.com/biography - Canine Biography



  #5  
Old December 24th 04, 05:28 PM
diannes
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Emily Carroll/Fluttervale wrote:
Because they're the only major registry in the United
States to require ANY DNA profiles whatsoever.


Well.... I think they're the only ones to have clear-cut
policies on when profiling is required. But also take note
of this:

"Mandatory DNA Profiling. While the DNA program is offered
to U.K.C. customers as a voluntary option, United Kennel
Club, Inc. reserves the right to require any dog or dogs
to be profiled pursuant to the maintenance of the integrity
of U.K.C. records. A person who refuses to consent to
profiling of a dog over which he/she has legal control
may be barred from all United Kennel Club privileges."
(Source: http://www.ukcdogs.com/rg/r-4.shtml)

I think it's likely that AKC is moving towards a system in
which DNA profiling is mandatory for all dogs, just as they
are moving towards requiring permanent ID for all dogs.
However creating a system to handle hundreds of thousands
of DNA records per year is not a trivial task - therefore
the initial emphasis on profiling the dogs that produce
the most puppies, i.e. the popular sires. Makes sense to
me.

JFWIW,

Dianne
  #6  
Old December 25th 04, 12:56 AM
external usenet poster
 
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Default


diannes wrote:

I think it's likely that AKC is moving towards a system in
which DNA profiling is mandatory for all dogs, just as they
are moving towards requiring permanent ID for all dogs.
However creating a system to handle hundreds of thousands
of DNA records per year is not a trivial task - therefore
the initial emphasis on profiling the dogs that produce
the most puppies, i.e. the popular sires. Makes sense to
me.

JFWIW,

Dianne



What really sucks, though, is that despite the fact that the AKC and
UKC use the exact same company for DNA VIP the AKC will not accept the
profile if it was sent into UKC first. UKC on the other hand will
accept a profile if it's been sent to AKC first.

Similar things have happened with FCI registered dogs whose papers were
sent to UKC before AKC-- AKC wouldn't register the dog since it was
already registered with a competitor.

-Amanda
BIMBS CH. Cat's Cradle's Beaufort, CGC
Lucy Anna Skye, MB-CD, CGC
http://www.uberpest.com

  #7  
Old January 9th 05, 05:51 AM
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Default

Actually,

If the AKC gets information that you are selling pups that are not what you
say, ie mom is a non papered dog that you are breeding along side the
papered one, they come in and DNA test ALL of your dogs. The AKC has the
highest standards as far as registry goes. They are the only ones I know of
who will investigate reports of this kind, the others just look away. There
is nothing stopping you from DNAing your bitches. If you want it done, have
the vet swap the girl and send it in with your $40. No big deal.

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  #10  
Old January 10th 05, 07:13 AM
external usenet poster
 
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Default

I did mean in the US. and yes AKC will show up, I know a breeder it
happened to, all checked out, but they came and tested all of the dogs
because of a report they got that the males were not the fathers and mothers
were not correct. She actually keeps excellect records and they came in,
checked microchips, and tested them. All was well so no action was taken.

So, I am sorry I didn't think "outside the box", you know us Americans, we
never realize we are not the only ones on lists, lol
 




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