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Death of a Gordon Setter and Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 26th 03, 01:18 AM
FlackJacket
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Default Death of a Gordon Setter and Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce

My Gordon Setter passed away today and in doing so revealed to me how
cold hearted and useless Canadian Banks are.

I just moved to Canada from the United States. We brought with us our
Gordon Setter which was dying of lymphoma cancer. We had just opened
up a bank account at the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce and
transferred our funds from our US bank to the CBIC. Oddly enough the
bank advised that they were going to have to put the funds on hold for
ten days while the certified check from our US bank cleared.

Suddenly today at 12:00 our Setter took a serious turn for the worse.
She had been looking pretty good and puppyish for the last couple of
days but today she collapsed while outside doing 'what dogs do'. I
carried her into the house and placed her on her favorite blanket.

Over the next twenty minutes I watched as her condition rapidly
deteriorated. I realized that her situation was extremely bad and
decided to call our Vet to perform euthanasia to ease her pain.

Problem was that I did not have the cash on me to cover the expenses
that I was anticipating at the Vet ( ie the euthanasia cost and the
final deposition cost of her body ).

I quicly called my local Canadian Imperial Bank of Canada branch to
request that take $500 off the temporary hold that they had placed on
our fund transfer from the United States.

Canadian banks it appears don't really want you to phone them... so
they set up an elaborate blockade of answering machines and voice
mail. After routing through a number of the diversions that their
system through at me, I was given the option to call the their 1-800
service number.

I called that number and explained the situation to the 'call clerk'
on the other end. I explained that we had just transferred a six
figure check into the account, certified funds, from our US bank to
our new account at the CBIC. Six days had passed since we had
deposited the funds but due to an emergency situation I need $500 of
that money released from the 'temporary hold' to meet the expenses I
was about to incur.

The CBIC telephone clerk, apparently operating from some call center
in India, put me on hold as she discussed my request with her
superviser. She left me on hold as my dogs condition was worsening in
the background.

When she came back on the phone she basically said that the 'banks
rules do not permit the early release of even a nickle of the funds we
had transferred to the bank until the 'holding period' had ended.

I explained that I understood that policy, but that the only reason I
was making this request is because of the urgency of our situation and
our need to access the funds for this special situation.

She than offered the suggestion that I drive over to our local bank
and explain my situation directly with the bank manager, who might be
in a better position to bend the rules.

I reminded the twit that I had a dog lying in front of me, dying by
the second, and that the urgency of the situation dictated that I take
the time to drive to the Vet - not to some bank to beg a bank manager
to release a tiny percentage of the money that I had just transferred
to their bank.

She was unmoved. I than reconfirmed exactly what she was saying to
me and she confirmed my understanding of their 'heartless and
unflexible' policy.

I than advised her that as a result of their failure to show even an
iota of flexibility in this 'special circumstance' that I would be
immediately withdrawing all the funds I had transfered to their bank (
as soon as it cleared their holding period of course ) and that I
would take my business elsewwhere.

By the time I got off the phone with this 'call center' flunkie my dog
had reached the point of convulsions, her lips and tongue had gone
white and she was in her final death throws.

I quickly loaded her in the back of my truck and drove her to the Vet.
I was prepared to issue a check to the Vet in the hope that it would
not reach the bank clearning house until the funds had been released
into my account.

My Gordon Setter died sometime between the loading of her into the
truck and my arrival at the Vet. The Vet pronounced her DOA after
checking the heart and shining a light in her eyes.

I will not forgive the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce for their
heartless handling of this case. It told me that in a dire
circumstance this bank protected its own interest over that of its
customers.

This was indeed an odd situation to be caught in - having to beg your
bank to release a tiny bit of the funds that had been transferred to
their care. Not many people are likely to get caught in such an odd
situation. But that is my story as of July 25th on how the Canadian
Imperial Bank of Commerce failed to show compassion or flexibility in
an emergency situation.

I could better understand their nervousness or strict adherence to
their rules, had I been looking for a loan. That might have been
excusable and expected. But I was asking for only $500 to be
released from a six figure certified bank check that had been
deposited six days earlier.

Nuff said... dog owners will hopefully appreciate this little tale
about how the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce would treat you if
you had been in the same circumstance.
  #2  
Old July 26th 03, 02:44 AM
avocado
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Default

"Rocky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
FlackJacket said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

But that is my story as of July 25th on how the Canadian
Imperial Bank of Commerce failed to show compassion or
flexibility in an emergency situation.


Couldn't you have used a credit card? My "insurance" policy is
a no balance card with a reasonably high credit limit.

Is this a recent event? It's been about a decade since the CIBC
has gone by the "Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce".

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


Although the story is a sad one, to be sure, I was wondering the same thing.
The loss of a pet is saddening, but it seems that the bank was up front in
stating its policy. I can't imagine leaving myself financially "high and
dry", especially if I had six figures worth of money for which I was
responsible. Something my mother told me about eggs and baskets.....


  #3  
Old July 26th 03, 03:13 AM
Robin
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Default


"Rocky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
FlackJacket said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

But that is my story as of July 25th on how the Canadian
Imperial Bank of Commerce failed to show compassion or
flexibility in an emergency situation.


Couldn't you have used a credit card? My "insurance" policy is
a no balance card with a reasonably high credit limit.

Is this a recent event? It's been about a decade since the CIBC
has gone by the "Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce".

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


That's what I was sitting there thinking as I was reading this long drawn
out tale. I don't think you'd find me sitting on the phone going through an
endless barricade of automated responses while my dog suffered in the
background. I'd use a credit card. If I had some kind of issue about
credit cards, I'd certainly keep enough cash on hand to handle any plausible
situations until the time that my funds were freed. The bank did state
their policy up front.

Robin


  #4  
Old July 26th 03, 03:17 AM
Emily Carroll
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Default

I dunno about you (well, I do, but anyways), but if I had a pet that was
dying and I knew that at some point I would be euthanizing it, I would have
made better plans. Regardless of the dog--what if you'd had any emergency
in the meantime? i.e. car breakdown on side of deserted road, bail money
(hey, you never know), food $$.

Sounds like a hoax to me.

--
Emily Carroll
http://www.geocities.com/diamonds_in...yes/index.html


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003


  #5  
Old July 26th 03, 04:22 AM
Tiger_Lily
external usenet poster
 
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Default

certified cheques are treated as cash

this story stinks...... something is rotten in Denmark


"Rocky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
FlackJacket said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

But that is my story as of July 25th on how the Canadian
Imperial Bank of Commerce failed to show compassion or
flexibility in an emergency situation.


Couldn't you have used a credit card? My "insurance" policy is
a no balance card with a reasonably high credit limit.

Is this a recent event? It's been about a decade since the CIBC
has gone by the "Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce".

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.



  #6  
Old July 26th 03, 11:37 AM
FlackJacket
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Posts: n/a
Default

Unfortunately the tale is true and happened just hours before I posted
this story, the dog died on July 25 2003 at 1pm. I will address a few
of the skeptics that tried to pour water on this true story and than I
will drop out of this thread... as I do not wish to get drawn into
debates with people who troll for fights

With respect to the question about how Canadian Banks treat certified
bank drafts from the United States... no they are NOT treated like a
cash deposit. The CIBC placed a ten day hold on the deposit. The
lame Canadian banks are extremely paranoid about any deposit and
especially ones originating from a US bank. So they slap a 10 day
hold on the deposit in order to ensure that the check is in fact
bonafide and clears.

Further, we had only moved to Canada and opened the bank account two
weeks earlier. The previous deposit of $3k that we had put in there
when we first arrived also underwent the same 'holding period'. Those
were the funds we used to cover our operating expenses following the
move.

The paranoia of the CBIC was probably a result of three things :
a) new customer originating from the United States
b) certified bank draft originating from a US bank
c) new account that was only two weeks old. Possibly they might have
cut us some slack if we had been banking with them for the past ten
years...

With respect to how people would have handle this situation
differently... well suffice to say that we were brand new customers
with even the Vet. I had only met the Vet a week earlier in order to
get a prescription of Predizone for the dog. They had a very clear
'payment policy' which stated they did not accept 'credit cards'.

My purpose of calling the bank in order to request the release of just
$500 of the held funds was to ensure that I would be able to pay in
full the account that I knew was going to be incurred when I entered
the Vet's office. I had expected it to only be a short and simple two
minute phone call. I did NOT expect to have the local branch slapping
up a barricade of answering machines and rerouting of calls to their
call center in India or wherever that 'call center clerk' was located.

Unfortunately the credit card that I have was maxed out due to the
recent moving expenses over the past two weeks You would be surprised
at how many misc. expenses you wrack up on your CC when moving.
There was no room on that CC to draw a cash advance.

With respect to a question raised about me referring to the CIBC as
the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce... well that is their name
and I felt it was worthwhile to use both their acronym and full name
in the context of this message. I also refer to IBM and
International Business Machines and 3m as Minnesota Mining and
Manufacturing....

With respect to CIBC being applauded for adhering to their 'policy' I
take an opposite position. If a corporate policy does not provide
any flexibility in an exceptional circumstance, than I really have
little respect for the 'human' aspect of that corporation. CIBC
showed me yesterday that their number one motivation was to stick to
the rules and protect CIBC's interest. Had their been a death of a
family member would their response have been any different ? I don't
think so.

It is unfortunate that skeptics jump forward to try to bleak out the
message and challenge whether it was a valid legitimate post of a real
situation that had occured. The story was told exactly as it
happened. I also noted in my original message that the circumstances
of this true story were quite unique, with the timing of the move, the
sudden demise of the dog, the treatment of the bank towards banked US
funds, etc. The end point to the story that in this particular case
the CIBC failed to flex from their rules and policies in an
'exceptional' set of circumstances. Suffice to say that I will do
exactly as I promised the lady at the CIBC call center and pull all
our funds from their bank when 'the funds clear'. This event totally
soured my opinion of the CIBC and I do not think I could leave the
funds with their bank in the future.

I agree that the other banks or trust companies might have faired no
better given these specific circumstances. But the CIBC were the ones
put to this test and they failed. I cannot speak for how the other's
might have handled these particular set of circumstances. But I now
know that the CIBC showed no compassion when I needed them the most.
  #8  
Old July 28th 03, 01:02 PM
Countdown to 55
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Default

Nuff said... dog owners will hopefully appreciate this little tale
about how the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce would treat you if
you had been in the same circumstance.


Nope, even tho I'm an animal lover, what happened to your dog was your own lack
of planning.

I don't quite understand why you needed $500 for the euthanasia and disposal of
your Gordon -- seems a steep price -- but I guess that doesn't really matter.

All large banking institutions are going to basically treat customers the same
way. You were obviously new to the bank and this also obviously isn't a mom &
pop operation bank. If you wanted someone who could bend that sort of
regulation, you needed to put some cash on hand with one of your children or
with a neighborhood child who just *might* be agreeable to some flexibility
(not all children are).

And it's far from just banks. Heck, a couple of months ago I called to make an
appointment to have a repairman come to the house to fix my clothes washer and
the person I was talking to on the phone, the person who was making the
appointment for me, wasn't even in the U.S. I doubt he'd have been able to
give me any flexibility had I needed some.

Just last month I had to make an appointment for Comcast to come out and fix
the cable link. Seemed like it took a year just to get thru their telephone
menu and when I did, I found out that they basically work 9 to 4 and if I want
service, I get to stay home from work and wait for them or ask a friend or
neighbor to stay home from work and wait for them. The option was cancelling
my cable -- and they were perfectly agreeable to doing that for me -- but they
had no flexibility to offer.

I wanted to ask BankOne a question about my mortgage -- it seemed like it took
an eternity just to listen to their menu options. Then it took another
eternity to get an actual human being on the phone and the person was in AZ and
I'm in IL. Which didn't matter in my case, but it points to the fact that
there's no incentive for "flexibility" -- a person isn't even in the same
community as the person on the other end of the line. And they just plain
don't have the authority, so why would anyone stick their neck out for some
anonymous caller on the other end of the line?

Because of your own lack of planning, you unfairly berate a telephone employee
and his/her supervisor who just might have been animal lovers themselves and
upset about the fact that they were helpless given the situation.

If you've lived in the U.S. for any length of time at all, you really should
have a clue about how things are changing towards the worse as far as any
individuality. The larger a company becomes, the more rules and regulations
that have to apply to, unfortunately, everybody. For the most part, the little
people on the other end of the telephone don't have the authority to make
decisions anymore, nor do their supervisors. I don't think that'd come as any
surprise to any American. What comes as a surprise is on those rare occasions
that one *does* come across a company that's truly goes out of it's way to be
accomodating. That's refreshing to see every so often.

So.........

You made a move to a different country.

You made the move with a dog that you already knew was dying. Moves are
stressful and cancer victims don't handle stress the greatest, whether they're
human or canine it can send them downhill. But whether you knew that or not,
or whether you could postpone the move or not, you still knew the dog had
terminal cancer.

You made this move knowing that the bulk of your money would be tied up yet you
appear to have only kept a small amount of cash on hand for emergencies. You
were six days into a ten day hold on your money. Euthanasia doesn't even cost
all that much. What if you had happened to have a little more expensive
emergency in those last four days of the hold? In other words you're moving to
a new country where the community doesn't know you but you're expecting them to
make up for *your* lack of planning.

The person who would have been in the position most able to be flexible would
have been the veterinarian. Did you telephone the vet and explain the
situation? No. In fact, you waited 20 minutes before you even telephoned the
bank. That's a long time.

There's no way of knowing if the vet *would* have been flexible. I know plenty
of them who would not have been. You weren't an established client. I don't
know whether or not you have other pets at home that the vet will be treating
in the future. A lot of vet clinics have been burned in situations like this
so no longer are flexible with folks who aren't well-established clients. But
that would have been the place to start -- not with berating some poor
telephone clerk for the bank.

I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm sorrier for the dog. And I can't help
wondering a little if the berating-of-the-bank isn't just a little bit out of
guilt. In other words, possibly you're feeling guilty that you didn't decide to
euthanise earlier? This way you can blame the bank in your mind for the
suffering. I'm not saying you *should* have euthanised her earlier. Not
knowing the dog, of course I can't judge that, nor would I be able to judge
that even if I'd known the dog. That's something that's between dog and
companion human. But I do know that a good number of humans go thru a
guilt-trip after the death of a dog with a terminal disease. Should they have
done it sooner -- did they wait too long? Should they have waited -- would
there still have been more good quality of life ahead? These are questions
that a huge number of dog owners can relate to. And sometimes other family
members will put the dog owner thru a guilt-trip, as in a "See?? If you had
agreed to put that dog down last month, this wouldn't be happening now!" sort
of thing.

I'm just wondering if that might not be what's going on here, needing to find
someone, anyone, to blame for the suffering.

Cindy
 




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