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Handsome Jack!



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 21st 05, 07:39 PM
Natalie Rigertas
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Default Handsome Jack!


Could you recommend some good hunting books for a newbie to read? Someone
I know has a field bred lab puppy and wants to hunt with her. She's..10.5
weeks, I believe.

Also, if you have any ideas on who he can train with in Iowa (lives in
Cedar Falls, closest big city is Waterloo) could you let me know?

I appreciate it.

Natalie

rigertas @ gauss dot math dot luc dot edu


--

What fresh hell is this?
--- Dorothy Parker
  #2  
Old January 21st 05, 08:33 PM
KWBrown
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Natalie Rigertas wrote in
:


Could you recommend some good hunting books for a newbie to read?
Someone I know has a field bred lab puppy and wants to hunt with her.
She's..10.5 weeks, I believe.

Also, if you have any ideas on who he can train with in Iowa (lives in
Cedar Falls, closest big city is Waterloo) could you let me know?


I'm not HJM and can't help you with trainers in the Midwest, but I strongly
recommend Amy and John Dahl's "10-Minute Retriever." It will give your
friend a strong basis for starting the pup and getting ready for hunting
and junior stakes.

--
Kate
and Storm the FCR
  #3  
Old January 22nd 05, 05:30 AM
montana wildhack
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Jack-

I don't know if you ever see the comics, but there's a great "Rhymes
With Orange" by Hillary Price today called "The Lab Encounter Flow
Chart" that made me think of you today.
http://www.rhymeswithorange.com/ has the comics two weeks behind what's
in the paper. I'd post more about it, but don't want to infringe on the
copyright. Needless to say, it starts with "sniff something", moves to
"is it edible?" and goes from there.

  #4  
Old January 22nd 05, 07:29 AM
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From: KWBrown
Date: 21 Jan 2005 19:33:22 GMT
Subject: Handsome Jack!

I'm not HJM


BUT YOU ARE a lying dog abusing coward like your pal tommy.

and can't help you with trainers in the Midwest,


Neither can tommy on accHOWENT of he can't compromise
his ANONYMITY.

but I strongly recommend Amy and John Dahl's


You mean lying frosty and her DUMMY DH john "STICK MAN" dahl.

They're lying dog abusing cowards.

"10-Minute Retriever."


professor SCRUFF SHAKE recommended them, too.

It will give your friend a strong basis for starting the pup


Like HOWE it done for you and your own DEAD DOG Teena.

and getting ready for hunting and junior stakes.


Like HOWE susan fraser's BREED LEASE SHOW PUPPY
done.

Seems your pal tommy has advised all the owners of dead and
useless dogs on HOWER forums. He heelped laura arlov with
her DEAD DOG Chewie and Robert Crim's DEAD DOG Fritz, steve walker's
DEAD DOG Sampson, tommy's heelped LOTS
of DEAD DOGS.

But we was talkin abHOWET lying frosty and john "STICK MAN" dahl and
HOWE they beat shock choke intimidate
and murder dogs and lie abHOWET it.
--
Kate
and Storm the FCR

There's a REASON decent people do not post here
abHOWETS:




Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

lying frosty dahl says:

"To me, training a dog without using intimidation,
confrontation, or punishment is, indeed, everything.
I certainly reject "force" as Marilyn defines it. And
"fear" can be included under the category of
intimidation.

Not a one of these is constructive in the training
of a dog; all are bad for the dog/handler
relationship, the dog's confidence, the dog's ultimate
potential, etc.

But I do make use of tools and methods which I believe
to cause physical discomfort, including electric
collars, pinch collars, chain collars, switches, and
the ear pinch.

I just don't equate the reaction with the
tool/method--I look at the dog to know its reaction.
I think that is what some people don't do: they are
so full of surmises about what causes what, that they
never bother to regard the dog as the authority.

I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the
benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses
not to read the article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF
YOU DON'T READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of
"twisting ears (INDEED, SHE PINCHES THEM WITH
SPIKES).

I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).

I would never advise anyone to slap a dog
(SHE'S A PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER,
do you expect her to ADMIT THE TRUTH???).

I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever,
where slapping a dog is anything but destructive."

RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff
doesn't mean hit, it means slap. amy lyingfrosty dahl
continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have
trained require much more frequent and heavy
application of pressure (PAIN j.h.) to get the job
done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is
overcome

Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to progress to
striking them more sharply.

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the
stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to
the dummy.

Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,

Now you are ready to progress to what most
people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent
that resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb;

even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against
that

Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy
against its lips and pinching its ear.

if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing
and the collar, even the buckle on the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in"


Here's lying frosty dahl BEATING A DOG to TRAIN IT:

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient
and wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical
correction better than verbal correction. While "NO!"
is extremely useful if puppy is about to bite an
electrical cord or steal food off the table, when you
are teaching them something (like obedience) a sharp
jerk on their lead or swat with a stick gets the
message across with less emotion and less effect on
their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait
for their mouth to feel better. A correction should be
just severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the
dog."

=====================

Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't
noticed any of the contingent who like Koehler trying
to force their method on everyone, or calling others
names because they do not use the method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in
his book, such as making the dog walk behind the
handler on the "finish," are inappropriate for
retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than
others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no
corrections" is as significant to dogs as it is to
people. Applied correctly, Koehler's method uses *no*
intimidation, fear, or emotional manipulation. It is
clear and definite, and the handler's actions are
always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control
in any way. It places high demands of responsibility
on the trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment
to do correctly, so it is not for the casual
"dabbler." When done well,very few corrections are
needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and
absence of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in
the method's favor, than the occasional brief
unpleasantness of correction weighs against it." lying
frosty dahl.



You want MOORE INSANE?

WE GOT PLENTY!:

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION

"KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"

MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS,
DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can
say proudly,
'I take
anti-depressives'"

-----------------------------
--------

From: Gary & lois Edwards )
Subject: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on
trycyclics for about 22 years. Been there, done
that, have the t-shirt to prove it. What's
really terrific, is now days you can say
proudly, "I take anti-depressives". Back when I
started taking them it was seen as something
shameful. If you cut your leg off, and were
lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never
let the word depressed, pass your lips, or the
doc's would say, "You're depressed, on
medication? Well, can't have any pain
meds.....you could become addicted." The
good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt
who's father locked her in her room back in the
twenties because she was simple. A shame that
medication probably would have helped her live
a normal life. No Denna, I was just saying with
Darlene's personality, she has a way of
making grandiose plans when at the top of her
manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't
saying that anyone with problems could be
counted on to be irresponsible."

Lois E.

-------------------------------------

  #5  
Old January 22nd 05, 07:35 AM
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BWEEEEEEEAAAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!

  #7  
Old January 22nd 05, 03:26 PM
Natalie Rigertas
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Default

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
PS: Natalie, you also might want to have him ask his dog's *breeder*
for names, too.


That was the first thing I did. He had bought the dog from someone who
hunts, the dogs have health tests (at least OFA on hips), but the person
mostly hunts with
friends and they train their own dogs. He said it was a "farmer type" guy
he got his pup from. So his breeder doesn't really have anyone to
recommend.

The good thing is the guy realizes that he should have looked longer and
harder for a pup, and will next time.

natalie
--

What fresh hell is this?
--- Dorothy Parker
  #8  
Old January 22nd 05, 03:43 PM
montana wildhack
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On 2005-01-22 09:40:10 -0500, Handsome Jack Morrison
said:

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:30:27 GMT, montana wildhack
wrote:

Jack-

I don't know if you ever see the comics, but there's a great "Rhymes
With Orange" by Hillary Price today called "The Lab Encounter Flow
Chart" that made me think of you today.
http://www.rhymeswithorange.com/ has the comics two weeks behind what's
in the paper. I'd post more about it, but don't want to infringe on the
copyright. Needless to say, it starts with "sniff something", moves to
"is it edible?" and goes from there.


Sorry, Montana, but I couldn't find that particular one.

It's not polite to tease people.

sniff sniff


Sorry-

I didn't know whether it was in your local paper. It will be on the web
site in two weeks (I'll try to remember).)

  #9  
Old January 23rd 05, 03:50 AM
montana wildhack
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On 2005-01-22 09:54:50 -0500, Handsome Jack Morrison
said:

But I *am* holding you personally responsible for me eventually
somehow getting to see it.

How's that for pressure?


No pressure. I put a note on my calendar to post the link when it comes online.

  #10  
Old January 23rd 05, 04:48 PM
Natalie Rigertas
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Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
Here's hoping that he doesn't need to look for another, say, 15 years.


If the pup has some decent field lines, and gets some reasonably
decent training, and he has a little luck, that's very possible.


Thanks Jack. We were talking last night, and he was saying, there aren't
any groups in this state at all. None. I told him I didn't believe him
and he just hasn't found any yet. Then he did fine one from one of the
links you gave. heh.

natalie

--

What fresh hell is this?
--- Dorothy Parker
 




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