I have a dog that I rescued from the dog's home. She is described as a
Staffy/Border Collie cross. Rest unknown. History unknown. Reason for
being in the home unknown.

When we got her (2 1/2 years ago) she was a mess. She was actually
sent back by a previous family who took her from the home, because she
cowered and cringed so much they could not stand it.

In the car she dribbled terribly, and cowered. We went to my Dad's
house, and she walked in then started cringeing about the light
fitting. The airconditioner was another object of fear, running or
not. In the end she settled down a bit, but we could see why the last
lot had taken her back.

When I got her home she simply would not come into the house. I left
the door open and went inside. She ran away. We live in the middle of
a lot of forest. She came back about 4 hours later, and things were a
bit better. I stayed up with her until 3am that night, just comforting
her.

It was hard to get her to eat. But we worked at it and in the end
found what she liked, and all was well.

We have now had her for two + years, and we have nurtured her to the
point where she still reacts badly (to things like the rooflight in a
car, wind noise on windy days, and airconditioner, the screen crackle
when you turn on a TV etc) occasionally. But in general she has been a
happy, obedient, dog. The reactions are usually minimal, and we ignore
them and simply give her a happy home as much as we can. We love her.
She is clever and funny to watch. She loves a cuddle. She has room
aplenty and has regular (2-3 times a day, 1/2 hour walks/tearing
about) exercise.

BUT.

The latest "trick", which has worsened over maybe the last 2-3 weeks,
seems to centre around food and water. The _offering_ of food is taken
as good or bad according to whim. I swear there is nothing I do
different, that I can tell. One morning feeding time is murder. That
afternoon it's OK and even fun.

The dog is eating OK. Tidbits are usually welcome unless there is a
really bad atmosphere. The dog is not "not eating", and nor is she
overfed. I give tidbits only to test. I am talking of a piece of
cheese the size of my thumbnail. Maybe 2-3 of those. All eaten if
things are only middling bad. This is not a matter of feeding time and
not being hungry etc.

Yesterday morning, I put down breakfast (lightly fried mince with a
bit of vegies and cereal, a favourite beaten only by chicken). No go.
No reason. So we sit there for a while. No eat. I try to ask her to
eat. No go. Just cringeing and eye squinting.

So I say "Go for a walk?" Great! Grabs my shoes for me, without being
asked, all ago ant tail wagging, and then sits well, while I am
putting on my shoes. I stand up and get my sunglasses. The dog rushes
across and starts gobbling breakfast. OK. I sit down again to wait.
This is good!

Now as soon as I sit down, she stops eating, looks at me as if I am
going to beat her, and cringes. I said nothing and neother did I make
a sound. No amount of cajoling will make the breakfast be eaten. The
walk is a misery. She runs away as if I am going to kick her. She runs
off to one side then stands there as I walk away, watching me, and
wagging her tail uncertainly, ears half back, showing all the signs of
uncertainty and semi-submission. Sometimes she will run across to a
bush and dig a "nest" and lie in it, looking at me. I have tried
calling her and patting her, ignoring her, making her walk with me,
simply turning around and going back to the house.

Yesterday morning, breakfast was nightmare time. No eat. Nothing
works. We go into town. We come home and the dog is licking my ears on
the car and wagging her tail. (cars are a very touchy subject as well.
She sometimes hates them and dribbles and cowers and casts fearful
glances all over on _some_ occasions). In the evening, dinner
(chicken) is eaten with great joy, and there is much patting and fun.

So we go for a walk on our 150 acre property.

Wonderful fun is had by all. It's a night walk, so the usual tearing
about is discouraged, but this is usual and accepted well.

We get back. The dog starts to drink her water and I see some stuff on
the surface that she is avoiding. I say "Excuse me mate" and take the
bowl. No problemo. This has happened many times, with food, water,
bones, sticks she has picked up etc. We have always rewarded her for
giving somethong up. SHe has not shown resentment in the past. Then I
give it back. "Drink for Tess". This has worked many many times. Nuh!
Failure! Ignore water. Cringe. Piddle a bit. Ignore everybody.

This morning, sulky looks. I take her out for a pee. She is OK with
this. I give her chicken. Nup! So I lie on the floor and she comes
across to me, little bit of piddling, and we lie there, just waiting.
In the end she puts out her paw and we have a bit of a talk. All is
not well, but better. So I get the chicken. Not much luck either with
the plate or with offering single pieces. I actually chuck a piece up
and down and throw it, and she eats it. And again. And again. So I say
"good girl" and scratch her under the chin. She seems to like that.
But Wup! No more eating. Sulk.

My wife has to be away a fair bit. This seems to get worse when she is
not here. But it has happened when she is here, and has only started
happening recently. It is definitely aimed at me.

Sometimes I have left her bowl there and eaten my own meal. She
watches me, then east her own. This is not working any more.

I have lost it with her a couple of times lately over this behaviour,
and screamed at her and made lots of noise with a newspaper, but never
before. I realise that all this does is release my frustrations, but
it does do that. It has taken a lot of this to get me to lose it. I
have spoken severely to her in the past about other things, with no
ill effect. She simply obeys, and we go on as before.

We are both miserable about this, as far as I can tell. I don't think
she can help herself, but I am at my wits' end. I am starting feel
very frustrated and a bit hateful toward her. I know that's no use,
but I can't help it.

Old Nick wrote:
We are both miserable about this, as far as I can tell.

Whoa, I can relate - to your dog. :}

When I was a baby, I was a fussy eater. And my mom would worry, and fret, and
cajole, and make meal-times hell. I'm told that as an infant, I learned to put
my tongue on the roof of my mouth to stop the milk from going down my throat.

It continued throughout childhood. Doctors told my mother not to worry, that I
was thin but healthy. But she just couldn't fathom that I could survive
without eating three squares a day. I HATED to eat.

I didn't find my appetite until I moved out of the house. Now, of course, it's
completely normal.

Stop stressing! She's picking up on it. Put the food down at the same time,
leave it down for 10 minutes, and pick it up if it isn't eaten. Don't put food
down again until the next meal time. She will learn to eat at meal times. As
long as she's drinking water, she can go days without eating.

But don't hang over her about the water, either. Just leave it there, and
leave her alone about it.

Goodness, if she won't eat when she's stressed, it's certainly not going to
help to stress her more!

--
Family Dog Trainer
"It's A Dog's Life"
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Get Healthy, Build Your Immune System, Lose Weight
http://www.re-vita.net/dfrntdrums

Old Nick wrote:
I agree that if we all complain about this raving nuisance, we may get
it stopped. A couple of people trying will not get action. I know it
can be filtered, but it is making rather a mess of the groups, isn't
it?

Better yet, if we all put him in our killfiles we won't even be aware of his
existence unless people quote him, talk to him, or talk about him (hint).

--
Family Dog Trainer
"It's A Dog's Life"
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Get Healthy, Build Your Immune System, Lose Weight
http://www.re-vita.net/dfrntdrums

"Leah" wrote in message
...
Old Nick wrote:
We are both miserable about this, as far as I can tell.

Whoa, I can relate - to your dog. :}

When I was a baby, I was a fussy eater. And my mom would worry, and fret,
and
cajole, and make meal-times hell. I'm told that as an infant, I learned
to put
my tongue on the roof of my mouth to stop the milk from going down my
throat.

It continued throughout childhood. Doctors told my mother not to worry,
that I
was thin but healthy. But she just couldn't fathom that I could survive
without eating three squares a day. I HATED to eat.

I didn't find my appetite until I moved out of the house. Now, of course,
it's
completely normal.

Stop stressing! She's picking up on it. Put the food down at the same
time,
leave it down for 10 minutes, and pick it up if it isn't eaten. Don't put
food
down again until the next meal time. She will learn to eat at meal times.
As
long as she's drinking water, she can go days without eating.

But don't hang over her about the water, either. Just leave it there, and
leave her alone about it.

Goodness, if she won't eat when she's stressed, it's certainly not going
to
help to stress her more!



Our Boxer, Sophie, is a slightly timid dog about mealtimes. It doesn't take
much to make her cower. She was rehomed with us from a good home, no abuse.
Her former owner also had a full grown Rottie. She mentioned that Sophie
learned her good mealtime manners by observing the Rottie. I'm thinking the
Rottie kept her in line by intimidation but whatever! She will lie down
while I am preparing her food. Then she won't go near it until I am out of
sight. We first had her feeding bowl out in the kitchen which is the
hub-bub of the house at mealtimes! She just never would eat. Even the cat
could take food away from her! I finally figured out that she didn't feel
safe out in the open like that. Duh! I moved her bowl to a quiet corner
where she was out of the way and would just leave the area. When I would
come back, the food was gone. She won't eat if we are watching her. She
does take treats from us but even then, she will carry it away to eat it.

We've only had her a few months and she is becoming less timid about her
food. She isn't a bit timid about meeting new people, being played with or
pretty much anything else. Just the food issue. Try not to take it
personally! It's strange if, like me, you've previously had a dog who lived
for mealtimes and you couldn't even go near the food cabinet without major
excitement breaking out! To have one afraid to eat is weird!

Fran

On 04 Feb 2005 03:48:26 GMT, (Leah) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Old Nick wrote:
I agree that if we all complain about this raving nuisance, we may get
it stopped. A couple of people trying will not get action. I know it
can be filtered, but it is making rather a mess of the groups, isn't
it?

Better yet, if we all put him in our killfiles we won't even be aware of his
existence unless people quote him, talk to him, or talk about him (hint).

In this case, I am not sure I agree, although it is KF'd for me.

Not everyone has killfiles.

Apart from my feelings that simply hiding from these idiots is not
enough, there is always fresh carrion for them to wallow in.

The first-time poster to the group is attacked by this weirdo, often
several times. It really did personally attack my message, and showed
signs of having read and thrashed it. It can be quite off-putting and
could be distressful to a news newbie seeking help, who may already be
unhappy or they would not be here. Luckily I knew of it from before,
and simply hoped it had gone away. When you see it being repeated ad
nauseum, you may dismiss it for the tripe it is. But at first it is
quite shocking.

Somebody from here once cross-posted a message across to another
unrelated group, and that group became inundated by the APW bug for
weeks.

Old Nick wrote:
I have a dog that I rescued from the dog's home. She is described as a
Staffy/Border Collie cross. Rest unknown. History unknown. Reason for
being in the home unknown.

When we got her (2 1/2 years ago) she was a mess. She was actually
sent back by a previous family who took her from the home, because she
cowered and cringed so much they could not stand it.

In the car she dribbled terribly, and cowered. We went to my Dad's
house, and she walked in then started cringeing about the light
fitting. The airconditioner was another object of fear, running or
not. In the end she settled down a bit, but we could see why the last
lot had taken her back.

When I got her home she simply would not come into the house. I left
the door open and went inside. She ran away. We live in the middle of
a lot of forest. She came back about 4 hours later, and things were a
bit better. I stayed up with her until 3am that night, just comforting
her.

It was hard to get her to eat. But we worked at it and in the end
found what she liked, and all was well.

We have now had her for two + years, and we have nurtured her to the
point where she still reacts badly (to things like the rooflight in a
car, wind noise on windy days, and airconditioner, the screen crackle
when you turn on a TV etc) occasionally. But in general she has been a
happy, obedient, dog. The reactions are usually minimal, and we ignore
them and simply give her a happy home as much as we can. We love her.
She is clever and funny to watch. She loves a cuddle. She has room
aplenty and has regular (2-3 times a day, 1/2 hour walks/tearing
about) exercise.

BUT.

The latest "trick", which has worsened over maybe the last 2-3 weeks,
seems to centre around food and water. The _offering_ of food is taken
as good or bad according to whim. I swear there is nothing I do
different, that I can tell. One morning feeding time is murder. That
afternoon it's OK and even fun.

The dog is eating OK. Tidbits are usually welcome unless there is a
really bad atmosphere. The dog is not "not eating", and nor is she
overfed. I give tidbits only to test. I am talking of a piece of
cheese the size of my thumbnail. Maybe 2-3 of those. All eaten if
things are only middling bad. This is not a matter of feeding time and
not being hungry etc.

Yesterday morning, I put down breakfast (lightly fried mince with a
bit of vegies and cereal, a favourite beaten only by chicken). No go.
No reason. So we sit there for a while. No eat. I try to ask her to
eat. No go. Just cringeing and eye squinting.

So I say "Go for a walk?" Great! Grabs my shoes for me, without being
asked, all ago ant tail wagging, and then sits well, while I am
putting on my shoes. I stand up and get my sunglasses. The dog rushes
across and starts gobbling breakfast. OK. I sit down again to wait.
This is good!

Now as soon as I sit down, she stops eating, looks at me as if I am
going to beat her, and cringes. I said nothing and neother did I make
a sound. No amount of cajoling will make the breakfast be eaten. The
walk is a misery. She runs away as if I am going to kick her. She runs
off to one side then stands there as I walk away, watching me, and
wagging her tail uncertainly, ears half back, showing all the signs of
uncertainty and semi-submission. Sometimes she will run across to a
bush and dig a "nest" and lie in it, looking at me. I have tried
calling her and patting her, ignoring her, making her walk with me,
simply turning around and going back to the house.

Yesterday morning, breakfast was nightmare time. No eat. Nothing
works. We go into town. We come home and the dog is licking my ears on
the car and wagging her tail. (cars are a very touchy subject as well.
She sometimes hates them and dribbles and cowers and casts fearful
glances all over on _some_ occasions). In the evening, dinner
(chicken) is eaten with great joy, and there is much patting and fun.

So we go for a walk on our 150 acre property.

Wonderful fun is had by all. It's a night walk, so the usual tearing
about is discouraged, but this is usual and accepted well.

We get back. The dog starts to drink her water and I see some stuff on
the surface that she is avoiding. I say "Excuse me mate" and take the
bowl. No problemo. This has happened many times, with food, water,
bones, sticks she has picked up etc. We have always rewarded her for
giving somethong up. SHe has not shown resentment in the past. Then I
give it back. "Drink for Tess". This has worked many many times. Nuh!
Failure! Ignore water. Cringe. Piddle a bit. Ignore everybody.

This morning, sulky looks. I take her out for a pee. She is OK with
this. I give her chicken. Nup! So I lie on the floor and she comes
across to me, little bit of piddling, and we lie there, just waiting.
In the end she puts out her paw and we have a bit of a talk. All is
not well, but better. So I get the chicken. Not much luck either with
the plate or with offering single pieces. I actually chuck a piece up
and down and throw it, and she eats it. And again. And again. So I say
"good girl" and scratch her under the chin. She seems to like that.
But Wup! No more eating. Sulk.

My wife has to be away a fair bit. This seems to get worse when she is
not here. But it has happened when she is here, and has only started
happening recently. It is definitely aimed at me.

Sometimes I have left her bowl there and eaten my own meal. She
watches me, then east her own. This is not working any more.

I have lost it with her a couple of times lately over this behaviour,
and screamed at her and made lots of noise with a newspaper, but never
before. I realise that all this does is release my frustrations, but
it does do that. It has taken a lot of this to get me to lose it. I
have spoken severely to her in the past about other things, with no
ill effect. She simply obeys, and we go on as before.

We are both miserable about this, as far as I can tell. I don't think
she can help herself, but I am at my wits' end. I am starting feel
very frustrated and a bit hateful toward her. I know that's no use,
but I can't help it.

I have had a dog in the past. she was belted with a lead and frankly
was a wreck. But she turned out okay.

I wonder if you are making a big thing of it when shes nervous or
worried. And so the dog sees that your worried and maybe picking up on
probelms from the past. I think the way I would handle it is just to
feed her at normal times. Dont make an issue of it. If she eats, she
eats. If she dont, she dont. Talk to her, (it's all rhubarb to the
dog but they like to hear a friendly voice), never push her away when
she comes to you. And just be accepting of her ways. Just let her
kinda do things her way, within reason of course and subject to your
bounderies. I just get the feeling that maybe you are making a big
issue out of it. I just think that if the dog has nothing to fear, or
reason to fear, then it will over come its fear.

Just my thoughts.

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:51:10 -0500, "Fran Bragg"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I think the trouble is it has become worse lately, and rather
suddenly. We had worked her from difficult eater to being quite happy,
then she began to get worse again. She was not a difficult eater at
all, in the recent past.

I know about putting the food down for ten minutes. I have tried it. I
suppose I just have to toughen up and accept that in the end she will
need to eat and overcome whatever it is that is happening. I have this
horrid fear of starving her! G

I don't think this is a food thing. It is so recent, and intermittent,
that there is something else. She will accept removal of food and
water etc happily at other times. But when it's bad it's really bad.
The mere offering of food causes an 'attack' of cringe. This was not
my fussing and etc. This was straight from her, one day to the next.

I do know that she is highly strung to the point of neurosis. The fear
(now only occasional discomfort) of the airconditioner is amazing, and
trying to cajole or comfort her with food treats of course simply
stops her eating the food. She is not a bribable dog. I must point out
that this practice was tried only once or twice, a long time ago, as I
realised that it would have a backfire effect if not stopped. This was
way before the present trouble.

I have had 6 dogs in my lifetime, and never had this much trouble with
one. She really was a wreck when we got her.

OK. I feel strongly that it's probably tied in with my wife's
unavoidable absences. I can try making less fuss of the dog while my
wife is here, then more fuss while she's away? What?


"Leah" wrote in message
...
Old Nick wrote:
We are both miserable about this, as far as I can tell.

Whoa, I can relate - to your dog. :}

When I was a baby, I was a fussy eater. And my mom would worry, and fret,
and
cajole, and make meal-times hell. I'm told that as an infant, I learned
to put
my tongue on the roof of my mouth to stop the milk from going down my
throat.

It continued throughout childhood. Doctors told my mother not to worry,
that I
was thin but healthy. But she just couldn't fathom that I could survive
without eating three squares a day. I HATED to eat.

I didn't find my appetite until I moved out of the house. Now, of course,
it's
completely normal.

Stop stressing! She's picking up on it. Put the food down at the same
time,
leave it down for 10 minutes, and pick it up if it isn't eaten. Don't put
food
down again until the next meal time. She will learn to eat at meal times.
As
long as she's drinking water, she can go days without eating.

But don't hang over her about the water, either. Just leave it there, and
leave her alone about it.

Goodness, if she won't eat when she's stressed, it's certainly not going
to
help to stress her more!



Our Boxer, Sophie, is a slightly timid dog about mealtimes. It doesn't take
much to make her cower. She was rehomed with us from a good home, no abuse.
Her former owner also had a full grown Rottie. She mentioned that Sophie
learned her good mealtime manners by observing the Rottie. I'm thinking the
Rottie kept her in line by intimidation but whatever! She will lie down
while I am preparing her food. Then she won't go near it until I am out of
sight. We first had her feeding bowl out in the kitchen which is the
hub-bub of the house at mealtimes! She just never would eat. Even the cat
could take food away from her! I finally figured out that she didn't feel
safe out in the open like that. Duh! I moved her bowl to a quiet corner
where she was out of the way and would just leave the area. When I would
come back, the food was gone. She won't eat if we are watching her. She
does take treats from us but even then, she will carry it away to eat it.

We've only had her a few months and she is becoming less timid about her
food. She isn't a bit timid about meeting new people, being played with or
pretty much anything else. Just the food issue. Try not to take it
personally! It's strange if, like me, you've previously had a dog who lived
for mealtimes and you couldn't even go near the food cabinet without major
excitement breaking out! To have one afraid to eat is weird!

Fran

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 09:44:58 +0800, Old Nick
wrote:

I have a dog that I rescued from the dog's home. She is described as a
Staffy/Border Collie cross. Rest unknown. History unknown. Reason for
being in the home unknown.

When we got her (2 1/2 years ago) she was a mess. She was actually
sent back by a previous family who took her from the home, because she
cowered and cringed so much they could not stand it.
snip


We are both miserable about this, as far as I can tell. I don't think
she can help herself, but I am at my wits' end. I am starting feel
very frustrated and a bit hateful toward her. I know that's no use,
but I can't help it.

Have you tried hand feeding her every meal? I am doing that now with
my two dogs -- granted neither of them have the history or issues
yours does, but it has helped make them feel more secure and confident
in my leadership (such as it is :-). I am enrolled with Dawn Jecs
here in Puyallup Washington and this is teh method she uses when she
first gets a rescue dog. She hand feeds them for a month or so. I
decided to try it and see what happens with my two. One is a picky
eater and the other eats as though there's no tomorrow....both of them
have calmed down. The one has become less picky and the porky is
eating slower and can't steal the other's food this way:-)

OldNick wrote in
:

I do know that she is highly strung to the point of neurosis. The fear
(now only occasional discomfort) of the airconditioner is amazing, and
trying to cajole or comfort her with food treats of course simply
stops her eating the food. She is not a bribable dog. I must point out
that this practice was tried only once or twice, a long time ago, as I
realised that it would have a backfire effect if not stopped. This was
way before the present trouble.


Does your vet have any ideas? This sounds to me like a dog who might
benefit from anti-anxiety meds -- you would use them in combination with
help from a trainer.

--Catherine
& Zoe & Queenie

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:57:18 +0000 (UTC), ceb
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

At least you are not telling me it's all my fault....

Does your vet have any ideas? This sounds to me like a dog who might
benefit from anti-anxiety meds -- you would use them in combination with
help from a trainer.

--Catherine
& Zoe & Queenie