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Science Diet vs Canidae



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 9th 05, 04:07 PM
Kevin McMurtrie
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Default Science Diet vs Canidae

Hi. My vet carries Science Diet, and of course, he claims that it is
the best dog food available. I've heard great things about Canidae. Is
it better that Science Diet, or is that hype too?

Thanks.

Kevin

  #2  
Old February 9th 05, 09:09 PM
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Canidae is far superior. Your Vet is paid to push Science Diet.
Doesn't Science Diet have Corn and by-products? Any food with corn
and/or by-products should be avoided. Another good food in addition to
Canidae is Wellness Super5mix www.omhpet.com

  #3  
Old February 10th 05, 08:25 AM
gaubster2
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wrote:
Canidae is far superior. Your Vet is paid to push Science Diet.
Doesn't Science Diet have Corn and by-products? Any food with corn
and/or by-products should be avoided. Another good food in addition

to
Canidae is Wellness Super5mix
www.omhpet.com

Canidae is NOT "far superior"! What do you base that on, anyway? Your
concerned with an ingredient label, and I'm concerned with actual
NUTRITION. If you're feeding Canidae to anything but a puppy, you're
risking quite a few things, not the least of which is kidney disease
(one of the top killers of dogs)!

As for Wellness, that's another food that markets themselves strictly
on scaring and misleading people about ingredients (for example, they
claim to use "human grade" ingredients, yet that term is absolutely
worthless and means nothing) and they've done absolutely nothing in the
way of nutritional research.

Time to debunk another old wives' tale...vets are not "paid" to "push"
Science Diet. I'm sure they are carrying Science Diet for a myriad of
reasons...not the least of which is the nutritional efficacy and
research put into the product. Most vets don't make as much profit per
unit on pet food when compared to pharmeucticals. They carry it as a
convienence to their clients. Where do you get your information from,
anyway?

  #4  
Old February 10th 05, 02:13 PM
Steve Crane
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Methinks the original poster is a troll. Unless of course you think
it is merely coincidental that the exact same message was posted on the
cat NG, but referencing Felidae instead.

As for comments in your post. What is your issue with corn in
dog foods? Before you answer, let's take a look at some facts about
corn.
1. The starch fraction of corn is 99+% digestible in dogs.
2. The protein fraction of corn is the most digestible (84%) of any
grain commonly used in pet food.
3. Corn contains 5 times as much essential fatty acids as rice.
4. Corn contains substantially higher levels of lutein than most other
grains, an important nutrient.
5. Corn is 20 times less likely to an allergen than wheat.

With those facts in mind please let us know what you dislike about
corn.

As for by-products - it depends upon the quality. It is possible
to buy much better quality by-products than plain meats. Your example
of Wellness is a good one to use. Wellness Super 5 Lamb meal contains a
whopping 1.73% calcium. Where does all that calcium come from? Lamb
meat - straight meat - contains only 0.01% calcium. Grains and veggies
contain very little calcium. The vast majority of calcium in any pet
food comes from the meat meals used to manufacture it. In contrast lets
look at Science Diet Adult - where the first ingredients listed are in
order - chicken, corn meal, grain sorghum, ground wheat, chicken by
product meal. Calcium level in this product is 0.73%

So back to the whopping 1.73% calcium level in Wellness, an amount
by the way, that exceeds the maximum key nutritional level appropriate
for adult dogs which is 1.0%. Where does all that calcium comes from?
From ground up bone material in the food. The cheaper the meat meal -

the more ground up bone is in the meal. The more expensive meat meals -
commonly called "low ash" meals contain far less ground up bone tissue
in the meat meals.

Considering The Wellness product contains 2.4 times as much
calcium as Science Diet, one can make some fairly reasonable and
logical conclusions about the quality and cost of the two products.
Wellness doesn't win this comparison in any way shape or form.

  #5  
Old February 10th 05, 02:59 PM
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Default

Oh Boy,

I see that Hill's has resorted to planting some incessant ramblers on
the forums in hopes to persuade the general public that the crap they
peddle as premium dog food is actually good for dogs? I wouldn't feed
my dogs Science Diet if it were the last bag of food on the shelf!
Read the ingredients! and BTW, a quick review of your past posts shows
that you're here for no other reason than to push Science Diet. Big
Business at its finest or lowest?

  #6  
Old February 10th 05, 04:09 PM
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OK, lets cut to the chase, here are your Science Diet ingredients

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corn meal, chicken by-product meal (a source of natural chondroitin
sulfate and glucosamine), soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with
mixed tocopherols and citric acid), vegetable oil, chicken liver
flavor, dried egg product, flaxseed, dried chicken cartilage (a source
of natural chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine), taurine, L-carnitine,
preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (salt,
potassium chloride, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate,
manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract,
beta-carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement,
vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate
(a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium
pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin,
vitamin B12 supplement).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Corn Meal is the number 1 ingredient!?!? which is nothing but a cheap
filler with little to no nutritional value! But wait, "Chicken
By-Products" are the second ingredient, which are basically ground up
and boiled beaks, feet and any other part of the chicken that none of
us would ever consider eating! But it gets even better as ingredient
number 3 is soybean meal, which is yet another cheap filler! As you
read down the list you see that things quickly deteriorate, as if that
could even be possible. You guys are sick to even suggest that Science
Diet is a good dog food!
I do like the marketing play on by-products as being a "natural source
of chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine"? That's a slick way to market
chicken cartilage to the masses! LOL!

Now lets compare Science Diet against Wellness SuperMix5 Chicken, which
is what I feed my dogs.

Here are the Wellness ingredients

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deboned Chicken, Ground Barley, Oatmeal, Rye Flour, Menhaden Fish Meal,
Whitefish, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Millet, Canola Oil (preserved with
mixed tocopherols), Flaxseed, Amaranth, Peas, Carrots, Whole Sweet
Potatoes, Whole Apples, Whole Blueberries, Whole Clove Garlic, Alfalfa
Leaf, Yucca Schidigera, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium,
Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Inulin, Fructose,
Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, Beta-Carotene, Potassium Chloride,
Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc
Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of
Copper), Copper Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Sulfate,
Manganese Proteinate ( a chelated source of Manganese), Sodium
Selenite, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin
Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin D-3
Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm, which one would you feed your dog Einstein?

  #7  
Old February 10th 05, 05:22 PM
shelly
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Posts: n/a
Default

on 2005-02-10 at 07:09 wrote:

OK, lets cut to the chase, here are your Science Diet
ingredients


FYI, you're talking to someone who feeds her Beagles Ol' Roy
because they aren't as important to her as her other dog.

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/ (updated dailyish, apparently)
  #8  
Old February 10th 05, 07:02 PM
gaubster2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote:
OK, lets cut to the chase, here are your Science Diet ingredients


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corn meal, chicken by-product meal (a source of natural chondroitin
sulfate and glucosamine), soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with
mixed tocopherols and citric acid), vegetable oil, chicken liver
flavor, dried egg product, flaxseed, dried chicken cartilage (a

source
of natural chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine), taurine,

L-carnitine,
preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (salt,
potassium chloride, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate,
manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract,
beta-carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement,
vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement,

L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate
(a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium
pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid,

biotin,
vitamin B12 supplement).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which Science Diet are you referring to? Adult? If so, you need to
update your talking points! I'm now convinced you're a troll!


Corn Meal is the number 1 ingredient!?!? which is nothing but a cheap
filler with little to no nutritional value! But wait, "Chicken
By-Products" are the second ingredient, which are basically ground up
and boiled beaks, feet and any other part of the chicken that none of
us would ever consider eating! But it gets even better as ingredient
number 3 is soybean meal, which is yet another cheap filler! As you
read down the list you see that things quickly deteriorate, as if

that
could even be possible. You guys are sick to even suggest that

Science
Diet is a good dog food!


It's already been demonstrated above that corn meal is a nutritious
ingredient. Until you can provide more information other than "your
opinion", you're not going to have much credibility. As for chicken
by-product, you're fallen for the hype that "all" by-product is "bad".
You're definition is so far off, I'll bet you believe that the earth is
flat! Please provide some evidence next time!

I do like the marketing play on by-products as being a "natural

source
of chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine"? That's a slick way to

market
chicken cartilage to the masses! LOL!

Now lets compare Science Diet against Wellness SuperMix5 Chicken,

which
is what I feed my dogs.

Here are the Wellness ingredients


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
snip
Leaf, Yucca Schidigera, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus

Faecium,

Note the presence of Enterococcus Faecium...a bacteria found in feces!!
Not to mention this particular ingredient comes with a MSDS!!

Hmmm, which one would you feed your dog Einstein?



I'm not going to feed my dog a food that purposely adds a bacteria
found in feces! How about the high levels of antioxidants found in
Science Diet that are nowhere to be found in the OMH product? How come
OMH doesn't even manufacture their own product?? Why do they outsource
it to someone else? Apparently you didn't read Steve Crane's post
above since he basically has already made you look like a fool! If you
are going to judge a food by the ingredient label (and apparently you
don't know the games that are played with the label--intended to dupe
consumers like you) then you are going to be misled each and every
time. Try learning a little something about nutrition before you
preach for your "side"!

  #9  
Old February 10th 05, 08:07 PM
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Default

I pulled that Science Diet ingredient list off their web site this
morning

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1108060843000

I have to wonder why they make it so hard to find their ingredient list
on their site? Well, no I don't, it's because they don't want anyone
to see the actual ingredients, only their marketing hype.

Maybe you can provide a better ingredient list and a link?

Regarding "Enterococcus Faecium". There you go again spreading
misleading information. You know that every animals gut is lined with
billions of "beneficial" bacteria including us! I regularly take
acidophilus and eat yogurt, which also contain billions of bacteria
organisms but it is a beneficial bacteria that aids in digestion and
overall intestinal health. Here's a link to help educate you on the
use of Enterococcus Faecium in dog food.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ecium+dog+food

Regarding Steve's post, I most certainly read it but didn't bother
responding because Corn is a well know cheap filler for dog food and a
known common allergen to dogs. No quality dog food uses Corn as an
ingredient. Steve talks in vagueness regarding Corn. Can he directly
compare your bag of Corn meal, I mean "Science Diet" to the grains
in Wellness / Canidae instead of using vague terms such as "grains most
commonly used in dog food"? Grab a cup of coffee and start reading!

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...=dog+food+corn

Steve even admitted that Corn was an allergen by stating that "Corn is
20 times less likely to be an allergen than Wheat". So what does that
mean? That because Wheat is worse than Corn, it's ok to use Corn as a
filler because it's not as bad? Great logic! and what is soybean meal
and vegetable oil doing in Science Diet?

Regarding Ingredient label games, Science Diet is a master manipulator
of this tactic. i.e., "a source of natural chondroitin
sulfate and glucosamine" and the ingredient list for Science Diet lists
"chicken by-products" as a main ingredient and then lists "Chicken
cartilage" again as an ingredient. I've also seen numerous dog food
companies break down "Corn" into several separate ingredients to
make it appear to be a smaller ingredient than what it really is.
Science Diet is nothing more than Corn, boiled down beaks, feet,
cartilage and other miscellaneous animal parts sprayed with some fats,
oils and vitamins/minerals. It's complete crap and anyone with common
sense can see that by reading the ingredient list.

Since this post was originally about Bag o' Corn n Beaks vs. Canidae,
here is Canidae's ingredient list (note the absence of Corn and
By-Products!).

Canidae Ingredient List
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken
Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid), Herring Meal, Flax
Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin,
Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic
Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Yeast Culture, Dried Enterococcus
Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried
Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis
Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces
Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract Mixed
Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese
Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate,
Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement,
Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate
(Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium
Pantothenate, Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate,
Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Dried Papaya, Vitamin B12
Supplement.

  #10  
Old February 11th 05, 12:45 AM
ZPL
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Posts: n/a
Default

Personally, I have noticed my dog does better on feed that does not contain
wheat or corn or soy. Not just skin, but bullmastiff GAS. Don't know why,
never did an allergen test - perhaps it is what grows on old grain, not the
grain itself.

BUT - many dogs do very well on corn. I have a friend that traveled over to
South Africa to visit with as many Boerboel breeders (outlying farm bred and
working dogs) as he could. THE MAJOR feed is actually mealy corn with milk.
The dogs are basically on their own in finding a source of "meat" unless
they luck out and win a lottery. Wonder how much protein is from the
"mealy" (insect) part of the corn.

And these dogs are in wonderful shape, compared to their American Bred and
fed counterparts.

BTW - beaks and hooves are much loved by just about every canine I have met.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I pulled that Science Diet ingredient list off their web site this
morning

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1108060843000

I have to wonder why they make it so hard to find their ingredient list
on their site? Well, no I don't, it's because they don't want anyone
to see the actual ingredients, only their marketing hype.

Maybe you can provide a better ingredient list and a link?

Regarding "Enterococcus Faecium". There you go again spreading
misleading information. You know that every animals gut is lined with
billions of "beneficial" bacteria including us! I regularly take
acidophilus and eat yogurt, which also contain billions of bacteria
organisms but it is a beneficial bacteria that aids in digestion and
overall intestinal health. Here's a link to help educate you on the
use of Enterococcus Faecium in dog food.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ecium+dog+food

Regarding Steve's post, I most certainly read it but didn't bother
responding because Corn is a well know cheap filler for dog food and a
known common allergen to dogs. No quality dog food uses Corn as an
ingredient. Steve talks in vagueness regarding Corn. Can he directly
compare your bag of Corn meal, I mean "Science Diet" to the grains
in Wellness / Canidae instead of using vague terms such as "grains most
commonly used in dog food"? Grab a cup of coffee and start reading!

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...=dog+food+corn

Steve even admitted that Corn was an allergen by stating that "Corn is
20 times less likely to be an allergen than Wheat". So what does that
mean? That because Wheat is worse than Corn, it's ok to use Corn as a
filler because it's not as bad? Great logic! and what is soybean meal
and vegetable oil doing in Science Diet?

Regarding Ingredient label games, Science Diet is a master manipulator
of this tactic. i.e., "a source of natural chondroitin
sulfate and glucosamine" and the ingredient list for Science Diet lists
"chicken by-products" as a main ingredient and then lists "Chicken
cartilage" again as an ingredient. I've also seen numerous dog food
companies break down "Corn" into several separate ingredients to
make it appear to be a smaller ingredient than what it really is.
Science Diet is nothing more than Corn, boiled down beaks, feet,
cartilage and other miscellaneous animal parts sprayed with some fats,
oils and vitamins/minerals. It's complete crap and anyone with common
sense can see that by reading the ingredient list.

Since this post was originally about Bag o' Corn n Beaks vs. Canidae,
here is Canidae's ingredient list (note the absence of Corn and
By-Products!).

Canidae Ingredient List
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken
Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid), Herring Meal, Flax
Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin,
Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic
Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Yeast Culture, Dried Enterococcus
Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried
Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis
Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces
Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract Mixed
Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese
Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate,
Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement,
Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate
(Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium
Pantothenate, Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate,
Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Dried Papaya, Vitamin B12
Supplement.



 




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