Newbie question.....

When watching shows on TV (in the group only) that usually only 4 dogs
are pulled out and "place". Is this true in the breed ring? On the
Westminster web page, and presumably at other shows, there are 4
placements in a breed. Best of Breed (BOB), Best of Opposite Sex (BOS?),
Award of Merit and then a 4th place dog that doesn't seem to have a
"title" or award. Is this how they are judged - not simply 1st, 2nd, 3rd
place ect? What are the other placement/awards a breed can earn?
Darby

"Darby Wiggins" wrote in message
...
Newbie question.....

When watching shows on TV (in the group only) that usually only 4 dogs
are pulled out and "place". Is this true in the breed ring? On the
Westminster web page, and presumably at other shows, there are 4
placements in a breed. Best of Breed (BOB), Best of Opposite Sex (BOS?),
Award of Merit and then a 4th place dog that doesn't seem to have a
"title" or award. Is this how they are judged - not simply 1st, 2nd, 3rd
place ect? What are the other placement/awards a breed can earn?

Westminster doesn't count in this, since all entries are finished Ch's.
But, at a regular show you've got
Dogs & Bitches
*Puppies (under 18 mos, class may be split like 6-9 mos, 9-12 mos & 12-18
mos).
*Open Dogs/Bitches (usually dogs/bitches that aren't finished Ch's but
over 18 mos. old--these dogs/bitches are still needing points to finish
their Ch.)
Sometimes show also offer classes such as Novice, American bred,
and Bred-by for unfinished dogs/bitches as well.

The winner of each of the above groups will then go in together to
vie for Winners Dog and Winners Bitch.

Then, all of the finished Champions come into the ring, with the Winners
Dog and the Winners Bitch. Out of this group, Best of Breed,
Best of Opposite and Best of Winners (either the Winners Dog or
the Winners Bitch) is chosen. AND, sometimes
it happens that Best of Winners may be either Best of Breed or Best of
Opposite as well as Best of Winners.
Then, obviously, the Best of Breed winner goes on to Group.

At shows like Westminster or the Eukanuba Classic), a Best of Breed is
chosen, a Best of Opposite, and Award of Merit(s). A judge can choose
as many AOM's are they deem worthy. Specialty Shows (at least ours
does!) also offers AOM's, but not regular shows.

And...at Group level, oftentimes the judge will make their initial cut,
pulling several dogs/bitches from the entire Group. Most people I know,
although making a Group win (1, 2, 3, or 4th) is awesome, sometimes
just making that 1st cut is a great accomplishment as well.

Shelly & The Boys (Bodhi's Momma was the Breed winner for BSDs this
a.m....yay! We'll be rooting for Quinlan tonight!)

Shelly & The Boys wrote:

"Darby Wiggins" wrote in message
...
Newbie question.....

When watching shows on TV (in the group only) that usually only 4 dogs
are pulled out and "place". Is this true in the breed ring? On the
Westminster web page, and presumably at other shows, there are 4
placements in a breed. Best of Breed (BOB), Best of Opposite Sex (BOS?),
Award of Merit and then a 4th place dog that doesn't seem to have a
"title" or award. Is this how they are judged - not simply 1st, 2nd, 3rd
place ect? What are the other placement/awards a breed can earn?

Westminster doesn't count in this, since all entries are finished Ch's.
But, at a regular show you've got
Dogs & Bitches
*Puppies (under 18 mos, class may be split like 6-9 mos, 9-12 mos & 12-18
mos).
*Open Dogs/Bitches (usually dogs/bitches that aren't finished Ch's but
over 18 mos. old--these dogs/bitches are still needing points to finish
their Ch.)
Sometimes show also offer classes such as Novice, American bred,
and Bred-by for unfinished dogs/bitches as well.

Okay, this makes sense. There are also Veterans classes for dogs/bitches over
7 right?...



The winner of each of the above groups will then go in together to
vie for Winners Dog and Winners Bitch.

Okay



Then, all of the finished Champions come into the ring, with the Winners
Dog and the Winners Bitch. Out of this group, Best of Breed,
Best of Opposite and Best of Winners (either the Winners Dog or
the Winners Bitch) is chosen. AND, sometimes
it happens that Best of Winners may be either Best of Breed or Best of
Opposite as well as Best of Winners.
Then, obviously, the Best of Breed winner goes on to Group.

Wow, I thought that all the dogs just competed against one another..with none
of these pre-compititons. I knew there were subgroups (puppies, open ect) but
I thought they were entirely separate and not feeders into the BOB...Would it
be correct to say that within the breed, it has its own "tiered system" (like
how it is explained on tv that a dog wins it breed, then its group then BIS)
similar to the one used to get to BIS?



At shows like Westminster or the Eukanuba Classic), a Best of Breed is
chosen, a Best of Opposite, and Award of Merit(s). A judge can choose
as many AOM's are they deem worthy. Specialty Shows (at least ours
does!) also offers AOM's, but not regular shows.

And...at Group level, oftentimes the judge will make their initial cut,
pulling several dogs/bitches from the entire Group. Most people I know,
although making a Group win (1, 2, 3, or 4th) is awesome, sometimes
just making that 1st cut is a great accomplishment as well.

Yes, I've been told this.



Shelly & The Boys (Bodhi's Momma was the Breed winner for BSDs this
a.m....yay! We'll be rooting for Quinlan tonight!)

Congrats!....

"Darby Wiggins" wrote in message
...



Okay, this makes sense. There are also Veterans classes for dogs/bitches
over
7 right?...

At Specialty shows, Sweepstakes or Supported entry shows. Not in Regular
classes.


Wow, I thought that all the dogs just competed against one another..with
none of these pre-compititons. I knew there were subgroups (puppies, open
ect) but I thought they were entirely separate and not feeders into the
BOB...Would it be correct to say that within the breed, it has its own
"tiered system" (like how it is explained on tv that a dog wins it breed,
then its group then BIS) similar to the one used to get to BIS?

Sort of yes, all of the regular, non-Ch dogs & bitches go through them
so that they can get into the BoB class (all of the dogs/bitches that
alredy have Ch's). Really, the best win depends on whether or not
your dog is finished. If you're looking for points or majors, you really
want to win Winners Dog or Winners Bitch. If you win Best of Winners,
then you get the point schedule for whichever is highest (dogs or
bitches).
In ESS and Golden, the point schedule is most likely HUGE. ;-)
In Belgian Sheepdogs, in my area, a 5 point major is beating
8 other dogs, or 10 bitches. In Goldens, in my area, a 5 pt. major is
beating 41 other dogs, or 46 bitches! Of course, getting
enough Belgians together to even make a major is usually hard enough...
Shelly & The Boys

"Shelly & The Boys" wrote in
:

In ESS and Golden, the point schedule is most likely HUGE. ;-)
In Belgian Sheepdogs, in my area, a 5 point major is beating
8 other dogs, or 10 bitches. In Goldens, in my area, a 5 pt. major is
beating 41 other dogs, or 46 bitches! Of course, getting
enough Belgians together to even make a major is usually hard enough...

OK, that makes a thread that happened a couple of weeks ago (injured dog
with scratch on face) and a comment that if you (general you, not specific)
don't go, someone else might get punished.

Thanks!!

--
Marcel and Moogli

"Marcel Beaudoin" wrote in message
. ..
"Shelly & The Boys" wrote in
:

In ESS and Golden, the point schedule is most likely HUGE. ;-)
In Belgian Sheepdogs, in my area, a 5 point major is beating
8 other dogs, or 10 bitches. In Goldens, in my area, a 5 pt. major is
beating 41 other dogs, or 46 bitches! Of course, getting
enough Belgians together to even make a major is usually hard enough...

OK, that makes a thread that happened a couple of weeks ago (injured dog
with scratch on face) and a comment that if you (general you, not
specific)
don't go, someone else might get punished.

Yeah...the Malinois. It's difficult out here (PacNW) to build
majors in any of the Belgian breeds, they're just not overly numerous
out here.
So, if you enter, then don't show up, you could break the major.
Meaning, several other people might show up, after traveling for
several hours, spending money on hotel rooms & so on, only to not
even have a chance at a major. It's one thing to get your dog out
there for the chance at a positive ring experience, but if you *know*
you're only going to be point fodder, then you just don't bother to
enter at all (as in, your dog's not ready, or way out of coat, or something
like that). Don't get people's hopes up, especially in a breed with
low numbers and you pretty much know everyone & they know you.
Shelly & The Boys

Darby Wiggins wrote:

When watching shows on TV (in the group only) that usually only 4 dogs
are pulled out and "place".

Your other question has already been answered, but I just wanted to
comment on this one. Yes, there are only four official placements in
the group, but often the judge will want to make a point about which
dogs were under consideration. So before making the final placements,
s/he will keep, say, somewhere between 5 and 9 of the dogs in the
group in the ring and send everyone else out. The dogs that were
kept are referred to as having "made the cut". It's not an official
award but is instead basically something that gives you bragging
rights - i.e. "Well, we didn't get anything in group today, but at
least we made the cut."

JFWJW,

Dianne

"diannes" wrote in message
...
s/he will keep, say, somewhere between 5 and 9 of the dogs in the
group in the ring and send everyone else out. The dogs that were
kept are referred to as having "made the cut". It's not an official
award but is instead basically something that gives you bragging
rights - i.e. "Well, we didn't get anything in group today, but at
least we made the cut."

I mentioned that...especially since I remember watching the Euk
Classic last month. The Group judge for herding pulled the
GSD, then the BSD (Bodhi's mom), the I can't remember the order,
but the BC, OES, and 3 others.
I just about peed my pants, thinking..."Group II!, Group II!" then after
the judge made her selection OES & so on, I remember thinking,
"Hell, she *did* make the cut!" And, that was actually her owners
words too, when I talked to her, "She looked great in the cut!" grin
Even a "cut" is exciting stuff for breeds that don't get a lot of Group
action.
Shelly & The Boys

Shelly & The Boys wrote:
Yeah...the Malinois. It's difficult out here (PacNW) to build
majors in any of the Belgian breeds, they're just not overly numerous
out here.
So, if you enter, then don't show up, you could break the major.
Meaning, several other people might show up, after traveling for
several hours, spending money on hotel rooms & so on, only to not
even have a chance at a major. It's one thing to get your dog out
there for the chance at a positive ring experience, but if you *know*
you're only going to be point fodder, then you just don't bother to
enter at all (as in, your dog's not ready, or way out of coat, or
something
like that). Don't get people's hopes up, especially in a breed with
low numbers and you pretty much know everyone & they know you.
Shelly & The Boys

UKC isn't any better for BSDs, IIRC. I know they're very rarely shown
(usually only at Classics or at Premier) because of the expression test
they must go through. It takes a long time to get through all those
dogs.

One of these days I want to have a BIS with Beau with Belgians there...
his first one was a multi-breed show (no BSD) and the second BIMBS
because no BSDs or APBTs.

UKC allows you to get a Major (competition win) if you get a Group
placement over at least one other dog in the Group. I think AKC allows
majors for Group WINS (I don't really know AKC rules all that well).
In UKC, though, Champion isn't the highest conformation title, and you
must win against other Champions or Grands of your breed to earn the
Grand Champion title.

I finished out Beau with a Group 3, then he got Reserve Champion (class
of 5!) at the Premier a few months later--his next time out. He did
even better last year --3 group placements, a Group win, and two BIMBS,
plus his CGC on a whim... he also has all the miles for his PD title,
but I haven't bothered to do his pack test. He's never earned any legs
towards his Grand, or any Top Ten points (you've got to get BoB over at
least two dogs to get Top Ten points). In fact, he's only been in the
ring with another Catahoula at five different shows.

-Amanda
BIMBS CH Cat's Cradle's Beaufort, CGC
Lucy Anna Skye, MB-CD, CGC
http://www.uberpest.com

"Amanda Tikkanen" wrote in message
oups.com...
UKC isn't any better for BSDs, IIRC. I know they're very rarely shown
(usually only at Classics or at Premier) because of the expression test
they must go through. It takes a long time to get through all those
dogs.

Yep...and I've never seen where UKC out here (WA/OR) offers
BSDs. Lots of APBT & American Eskimos. I wouldn't mind
going to an UBSDA (United Belgian Shepherd Dog of American)
Specialty where they judge all of them together (w/ the Laeken!), do
the animated assistance, character tests and the written critiques.
This year would be a cool year to do it, w/ a loooooong time breeder
judge coming from Belgium. But it's back East.


but I haven't bothered to do his pack test. He's never earned any legs
towards his Grand, or any Top Ten points (you've got to get BoB over at
least two dogs to get Top Ten points). In fact, he's only been in the
ring with another Catahoula at five different shows.


Maybe one of these days...:-) I know that Bodhi's breeder is a UKC
judge, and only a few of her own dogs have UKC Ch's. AKC is her
primary venue, and when she's at a UKC show, she's usually judging! And
even fewer current BSDs w/ UKC GrCh's. (Off the top of my head, I can only
think of a couple of Tervuren). Now I'm curious...might have
to go researching...
Shelly & The Boys