Well we took him to the pet store and fitted him with a prong collar. The
improvement was HUGE and instant. And he actually pays attention to
us now so hopefully we can work on some commands. I really must say that
I'm *very* impressed with this collar. He's like a new dog and he's not
going all bug-eyed and coughing anymore. There was another dog in there as
we were putting it on him and he was pulling and choking trying to get at
that dog and after switching the leash to the prong collar he pulled once
and then stopped altogether. We walked him around the store a bit and he
was very well behaved by comparison. He needs work with going off
whereever he wants, but I think we can work on that now that we have
his attention . This is a million times better. Thanks everyone for all
your help.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:17:13 +0000, Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

http://www.leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

Yep that's exactly how it's fitted!

And hopefully you won't come to rely on it for CONTROL, but will TRAIN
your dog to walk at your side on a loose leash, or with no leash at all.

Of course. But the thing was I couldn't even begin to train him without
having *some* control. He wouldn't even pay attention to me, now he does.

danewdawg wrote in
news
Well we took him to the pet store and fitted him with a prong collar.
The improvement was HUGE and instant. And he actually pays attention
to us now so hopefully we can work on some commands. I really must say
that I'm *very* impressed with this collar. He's like a new dog and
he's not going all bug-eyed and coughing anymore. There was another
dog in there as we were putting it on him and he was pulling and
choking trying to get at that dog and after switching the leash to the
prong collar he pulled once and then stopped altogether. We walked him
around the store a bit and he was very well behaved by comparison. He
needs work with going off whereever he wants, but I think we can work
on that now that we have his attention . This is a million times
better. Thanks everyone for all your help.

You're most welcome. I think the two of you will be much more successful
communicating now that the lunging is out of the way.
--
Kate
and Storm the FCR

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:00:20 +0000, Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

I'm sure that you're not one of them, but many other dog owners have also
said "Of course," and then when you check up on them, say, 2 years down
the road, the prong collar is *still* on the dog.

My American Pit Bull Terrier wore a slip choke chain her entire life. I
tried to switch to a flat collar for a short time long after she was
responding to "heel", but she went right back to pulling and not
listening and even started trying to back out of the collar. I'm fairly
certain the dog I have now has some bull breed mixed in. I don't know what
your experience is with bull breeds, but I can tell you from owning one
for 10 years and living with one previous to owning one that they are
independent to the point of stubborness. They can certainly be trained but
they aren't border collies. You've already given me the advice to train
this dog to walk offleash. I really must say that advice like that is very
bad to give to anyone with a bull breed or bull breed mix. These dogs were
made for fighting other dogs. Even if they seem nice to other animals you
never know when they might decide to fight and they *will* win. In
fact, I'd say it's bad advice to give *anyone* to walk their dog
offleash since the dog might run up to a leashed dog that will rip it
to shreds. It's a huge pet peeve with me when people walk their dogs
offleash no matter how well trained they are because there's always that
one time it might get too excited and run into traffic or jump on someone
or otherwise get hurt or hurt someone or something. Anyway, bull type
dogs also *love* to pull and they're strong. They are often used in weight
pulling competitions. It's my opinion (and that of one dog trainer I know
and one whose words I read) that putting a harness or a flat collar on a
bull breed just encourages them to pull. With my old dog it just set her
up to fail by putting a flat buckle collar on her. She was trained to heel
on a slack leash, which she did, but she needed the reminder of the choke
or the rattle of the chain to back it up every now and then - and I'm
pretty dang sure that's a breed issue not a training issue. I had another
dog years ago, a spitz and shepherd mix, that was simple to train and
would heel offleash on command. But he was eager to please and not so
independent/stubborn as every single individual bull breed dog I've ever
met. If you've worked with bull breeds at all you know they frequently
have a problem with listening - to the point you might even think the dog
deaf - and need physical force of some sort to back up commands. If you or
anyone knows some secret for training a bull breed dog to be as obedient
as the spitz I'd love to hear about it.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:43:22 -0500, danewdawg
wrote:

She was trained to heel
on a slack leash, which she did, but she needed the reminder of the choke
or the rattle of the chain to back it up every now and then - and I'm
pretty dang sure that's a breed issue not a training issue.

No, it's a training issue. I've seen plenty of pit bulls and other
bully breeds learn to walk nicely on leash with a buckle collar, using
no corrections.

--
Leah Roberts, Family Dog Trainer
It's A Dog's World
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Get Healthy, Build Your Immune System, Lose Weight
http://re-vita.net/dfrntdrums

"danewdawg" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:00:20 +0000, Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

[..]
listening and even started trying to back out of the collar. I'm fairly
certain the dog I have now has some bull breed mixed in. I don't know what
your experience is with bull breeds, but I can tell you from owning one
for 10 years and living with one previous to owning one that they are
independent to the point of stubborness. They can certainly be trained but
they aren't border collies.

and no 2 border collies are the same *but* the basic principals of dog
training are - you get back what you put in.
HJM has earnt more than a few 'good smack in the gob' points from me, but
this is basic ground roots advice and if you want a safe dog in your
community, you'd best be looking for those same objectives... cos crazed
pitbull on the block stories are, imo, only the result of people not
considering the bare bones of their pet welfare responsibilities.

Diana & Cindy

--
Cindy's web site
http://cindy-incidentally.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:58:07 +0000, Diana wrote:

cos crazed pitbull on the block stories are,
imo, only the result of people not considering the bare bones of their pet
welfare responsibilities.

Which is why I never walk my dog offleash and don't think other people
should either.

danewdawg wrote in
news
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:58:07 +0000, Diana wrote:

cos crazed pitbull on the block stories are,
imo, only the result of people not considering the bare bones of
their pet welfare responsibilities.

Which is why I never walk my dog offleash and don't think other people
should either.

Yep - you may need to do this:

but the offleash heeling skills make an onleash walk a dream. You have
taught the dog how to focus attention on you, and you ain't lived until
you've gone down a busy sidewalk with your dog heeling nicely and a
beautiful big "J" in the leash. It's downright relaxing.

Learn the skills, and then decide whether or not it's appropriate to
practice them with or without a lead in your own circumstances.

--
Kate
and Storm the FCR

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:43:22 -0500 danewdawg whittled these words:

My American Pit Bull Terrier wore a slip choke chain her entire life. I
tried to switch to a flat collar for a short time long after she was
responding to "heel", but she went right back to pulling and not
listening and even started trying to back out of the collar. I'm fairly
certain the dog I have now has some bull breed mixed in. I don't know what
your experience is with bull breeds, but I can tell you from owning one
for 10 years and living with one previous to owning one that they are
independent to the point of stubborness.

This response kind of makes me think of some guy sailing an El Toro
walking up to the captain of a sailng yacht and saying "I don't know if
you have any experience sailing, but it is really hard."

One of the top obedience trainers in the USA regularly trains bully breeds
to the top levels of obedience. Pit bulls are among one of the more
trainable breeds. You can teach them not to pull when on lead.

http://ourworld.cs.com/dreadlives609/id33.htm?f=fs


--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/

You HONESTLY don't see how sick you are...do you? For real?

Well, I sure as hell hope the staff at the nursing home sees it and
tries to help you.

You have SERIOUS problems...I still don't understand why you don't ask
for help...

Really, AssHowe, get help. You are one messed up old fart.

Pat

I Am wrote:
HOWEDY danewdawg,

danewdawg wrote:
Well we took him to the pet store
and fitted him with a prong collar.

That was kindly of you. THAT'S HOWE
COME decent people do not post here
abHOWETS, danewdawg. THAT'S HOWE
COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard only
posts to pubicly archived news groups,
on accHOWENT of your own posted case
history will PROVE The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME {) ; ~ )